im constantly awestruck by the scale of celestial objects. amazing!
saw this linked on facebook the other dayâŚ
now do they clear their neighborhood??
hold ma drink
Even crazier is just trying to comprehend the magnitude of the sunâs gravity to keep planets at this distance in its clutches. Especially since our sun is an average main-sequence star.
Back to the Andromeda video, this has to be one of the most thoughtful statements Iâve ever heard about the scale of the universe. Itâs the specific wording of this that blows my mind.
Freakishly Old System Of Planets Hint At Ancient Alien Civilizations
Cool stuff. Just imagining that alien civilizations could have existed even before our sun was formed is mindblowing. If they endured canât even begin to guess as to how advanced they would be, and to think some people expect alien civilizations would even consider direct contact with âearthlingsâ a priority.
cool stuff indeed! curious why you think an advanced alien civilization wouldnât care to contact us though. maybe Iâm too influenced by Contact but if they (aliens) had the capability for interstellar travel, theyâre probably at a free energy stage and I like to think that brings some extra degree of altruism⌠at least Iâm hoping! or maybe they have their own prime directive?
probably too much scifi!
The way I think about it is like aliens that can travel such distances have probably developed culturally as well to the point hey see humans as either basic animals, a plague or some early hunter gather type monkies. Hence why there are plenty of reports of abductions yet no first contact.
If you can cross the galaxy I dont think you got much to fear from dudes that needs 2 generations just to leave their solar system. Its human arrogance that makes us believe that any aliens would even consider us equals or worth a damn. Even the Imperium looked at the Tau with disregard for about 5000 years.
What is hard to believe is that any intelligent alien culture would not be curious to examine a lifeform from another world even if it is simple unicellular organism. There would be an enormous amount of of geological/chemical/biological/historical information of that world embedded into that organism. Would anyone disagree that intellectual curiosity is a prerequisite for technological advancement? Has nothing to do with arrogance. hahaa Or maybe it does. How ironic.
Intelligent lifeforms might have (or already had) a passing interest in humanity, but since their priorities and modality of thought are on a different scale, presenting themselves in an overt âHere we are!â manner doesnât seem to be the logical expectation.
Which is why they could visit on occasion, not make a fuss, and leave without ever behaving according to our rules of conduct and respect for planetary âsovereigntyâ.
In the same way biologists visit different habitats, perform tests and observations and leave without respecting the territory of whatever animal peed on a tree trunk.
This is intriguing, but I am still more of a proponent of the uranium core theory. It logically explains why the earth still has a hot core, and follows the density principle (i.e. uranium has the most atomic weight of any naturally-occurring element).
ââŚpriorities and modalities of thought are on a different scaleâŚâ, I am not sure what kind of argument you are making hereâŚ
Regarding the âhere we are!â: If you are referring to SETI/Drake equation stuff, then yes I agree it is just a waste of resources.
If the aformentioned single-celled organism affords a wealth of geo/bio/historical data of this world (knowledge which could be applied to your own owrld) imagine you have an opportunity to observe an alien organism that you can directly communicate with. Imagine all you can learn and apply to your own tech/society. Now in addition to all the other info embedded within you also can directly probe culture/social interaction/social history/tech. history/grasp of concepts/science/etc. How would they describe nature? What would/wouldnt they know? By chance have they uncovered any rocks that we have left unturned?..Would this even be a question we could be afforded to go unanswered? To not take this opportunity would reveal a comlplete lack of intellectual curiosity.
Maybe what you are saying is correct, but I think it is more naive to reject other possibilities without good reason (ie: âalien modality of thought is on a diff scaleâ) than to lean towards the idea that a technologically advanced alien civilization would desire direct contact with a sentient otheworldly being (given what we know about the driving force behind technological advancement - intellectual curiosity).
No reason to believe they wouldnât, but it is like looking for a microscopic needle in a haystack. If they were capable of such things as well as intergalactic travel they are probably very efficient at collecting data and so they know everything they need to know. Maybe weâre a lower form of life to them, they know weâre about but weâre of no value or threat to them, so they just move on.
Everything weâve done as individuals and a race, has been predicated on fundamental evolutionary factors. Our inquisitiveness made us great hunter-gatherers, our competitive, and albeit, violent is nature based on impressing the opposite sex and maintaining territory. We also possess hormonally induced emotions and social nuances, facilitated by a strong need for socialization and patient child-rearing.
These foundations are what give us the perspectives we have, and our rationalizations on what defines intelligence. Aspects of humanity we consider the hallmarks of creativity by our kind, could probably be looked upon as near-unrecognizable absurdities by extraterrestrials: Sports- mock wars with pointless tribalism, Music- percussive waves of gas in mathematical precision, Art- replicating environs and thoughts for introspection and needless validation.
There are fringes of the human experience, that for me, would be be more expected to see in an civilizations many orders of magnitude older than our own. An alien society that has evolved beyond our basic survival tendencies, either due to lack competition, countless generations of genetic augmentation and refining, or natural selection, would behave radically different from what we might come to expect from advanced beings. For example, I could liken them to as obsessive âcultural savantsâ; profoundly aware, but their interests fall within a very narrow scope, due to their vast knowledge or capabilities. This might make them have what we could define as social or psychological impediments, due to an incomprehensible amount of time without strife, competition, or basic motivation. It would be safe to assume any civilization existing for this long wouldâve streamlined all the aspects of their existence into a cultural singularity.
So the idea isnât that there could never, ever be an âadvancedâ alien civilization interested in exploring earth for more relatable reasons; but for a civilization that has been traversing star systems and galaxies for millions, or even billions of years, their priorities could be on a scale where observing low-mid ranged sentience, geomorphology, and rudimentary biology would be an afterthought.
Aliens have always been kind of funny to me, not because the idea of an advanced sentient being somewhere out there has comedic value, but because so damn much of human society hinges on the premise that we are alone in all of the cosmos. It isnât made as big a deal as it is, but coming into contact with Aliens would force the entire world to reconsider everything.
Itâd be kind of like going from Newtonian ideas of physics to Einstein.
Do you remember the book/movie Contact, one of the things I really liked about that is that the discovery of an advanced Alien race was considered blasphemous by a religious sect, they subsequently sabotage the entire mission. I think thats what will end up happening if aliens decided to show up tomorrow, too much of society is founded upon religious beliefs. It would be catastrophic, Hawkin talked about how the arrival of aliens would be like the Spanish arriving in America. But I think weâd just end up with some crazed jihadist loon trying to suicide bomb them and causing our extermination.
They should make a movie based on that.
edit: Just reminded me of The Mist, that crazed bible thumper and her human sacrifices, that but on a global scale would be terrifying.
Cultural singularity? If you evolve above basic survival tendencies how would you react/adapt to an extinction level event or even try to mitigate some trifling period of strife? Can a society devoid of a survival instinct even survive? Can a society devoid of a the concept of competition (and what this provides) even survive? How is it âsafe to assumeâ anything about a hypothetical alien civilization?
Iâd reckon that if you have the technology to control the fundamental forces of the Universe, there isnât much that can actually threaten you at all. Itâs like being god. The need to survive means nothing to a group that in essence controls what governs the comso, they transcend to god hood.
Besides, couldnât one say that this hypothetical civilization mindset is the absolute conclusion and culmination of the need to survive and compete.
and your also highlighting white shadowâs point about how absurd some things could be to higher beings, like competition. Once you know everything there is to know and have a powerful control over said forces, there is no need to compete when everything is below you.
I have a question for you science people that might make for an interesting discussion.
What is a force?
If I move an object with my hand, you can see my hand doing the work, but what about force due to gravity or how the strong nuclear force works?
Gotta love the Fermi Paradox and all it entails.
@ElderGOD The answers to this one are gonna vary widely depending on if you consider fields(i.e. the four interactive forces) as relevant.
/a bit of bias