The SRK Science Thread 2.0

away from me, in the direction of a steel plate (local junkyard sells those for cheap). It’s obviously not going to be the best, but at least it’s something that would greatly reduce the impact of shrapnel. (I do realize I might sound arrogant, and that I’m brushing of the dangers, but I’m not, I really want to do this right). I’m going to also section this off, since under state law, if this where to go off, and any damage where to occur to me, property, or worse, somebody else. The state can prosecute me since they could consider this an explosive.

Also, depending on the application, you may or may not need heat for a fractionation column. For what I’m doing, I simply need the shape of one, since it helps the solvent extract the maximum amount of solute from the starting material. For my application, I just need the maximum exposure and specific pressure and temperature range of the solvent (where the pressure is more important to the solvent’s solvating power).

There’s another reason, you need it specifically, but I’d have to go over my organic chemistry notes, but usually column lenght has to do with the more surface area expanded over a long distance, allows undesirable “heavier” compounds to level off at a specific height of the column, which allows for fractional distillation or selective distillation. There’s this term that I’m not remembering right now, but it was described as the more of these small “squares” you have, the bigger the surface are for the exchange of heat. I’ll find the exact term later today if I can find it.

There’s this weird push within the marijuana community that would rather “dab” than smoke the plant itself. that is, they prefer a concentrate derived from the plant itself, rather than smoke the plant. There are varying degree’s of quality, and there’s even grade’s to these concentrates.

some folk I actually know started up a non-profit “medical cannabis collective”, and I help them as much as I can with their science questions. I actually work for them, and I am in charge of the extraction of cannabanoid compounds from plants. So this is a growing sector within the community, and is becoming the “in” thing.

There are varying methods of extraction, the easiest being using a non polar solvent or polar solvent. IN fact, I’m sure that 99.9 percent of folk right now are selling wax made from solvents. Right now, I’m using a solvent to extract it, and then using cryogenic baths to winterize, vacuum filtration, and activated charcoal filters to clean the concentrates. Currently, the next step for me is using Flash Chromatography to further separate unwanted compounds, specifically plant waxes, fats, and oils, and achieve a specific gold color under normal lighting. This would quality would give me credibility and also allow me to start being a provider to other dispensaries under prop 215.

However, there’s this push from a small minority that’s marketing “solventless” wax. Most folk are using the dry ice and water method, which is expensive. And, there are “labs” which are running co2 supercritical fluid extraction machines in Seattle and Denver, which I believe is the next big thing. And those who can do it and have been doing it, will remain in business after marijuana is legalized in California.

So aside from wanting do this because the current methods require materials that will cost a pretty penny over the long run
the competition is going in the “solventless” direction, and in general having pharmaceutical grade material would be bad ass
If I can do this, this allows me to start negotiating with other collectives in a business sense, and give me better real world negotiating skills, since I can approach them with a product that has the quality and niche properties that people are gravitating to

And, it’s something I can legitimately and realistically approach from an engineering standpoint on my own time, learn a great deal from. In fact, it’s primarily a learning experience from me, especially since I’m a chemical engineering student. The odd thing about all of this is that I don’t like marijuana in general, but hey, an opportunity to learn is an opportunity provided I do it safely.

not only does that sound bad ass, that sounds fucking scary

Ok what happens if you crunch yourself into a blanka ball then “jump up” in space? Nothing happens? there has to be some kind of force going on…

Also, you guys should read this book. I read it 14 years ago. It talks about what happens when you get close to black holes and the frozen death of the universe you guys are talking about. It also talks about the in the end the only objects that will exist in space will be metallic sphears:

http://mardi.home.xs4all.nl/bookimages/16104.JPG

Yeah, you don’t move from your general position. There IS force going on, because you’re moving your body parts to do the “jumping up” motion. It’s just that your entire body is a closed system, so your total momentum is constant. If you started with an overall momentum of 0, you can’t really change that without applying an external force, so your entire body will remain with an overall momentum of 0.

FIRE!

…‘theoretical plates’

Doesnt sound that weird. Inhaling any type of smoke is going to be damaging to your lungs (whether THC is a vasodilator or not), so once the treatment becomes mainstream, smoking it is probably not going to remain the common method of delivery.

‘Winterize’? Is that crystallizing out certain unwanted fractions? Flash chromotography is the only thing between you and being a card-carrying provider? hahaa. That is crazy.

‘Dry-ice and water method’? Is that freeze-drying to remove all traces of solvent? I have seen labs where the SFC extraction/chromatography is done, and they are a big deal. However, I didnt know there was a community of basement supecritical fluid extractors. Hahaa.

I know pharmaceutical manufacturers already make pure THC, and I know that is a controlled substance and getting a license to handle that type of material is kind of a big deal, but I dont know anything about the scheduling of plant extracts. Just out of curiosity do you?

It is good to hear you are a budding ChemEngneer. You may be ahead of the curve or not (I wouldnt know) but once this medical marijuana becomes legit, you are likely going to be competing with orgs with serious equipment and experience.

FYI: I have no professional interest in this area, I am just asking question sout of curiosity.

I find it weird. It’s more expensive in the long run. People who do it in my experience start doing it exclusively. This stuff costs anywhere from 50-110$ a gram.

Yes, you use a solvent that’s solube at room temperature. But the trick is finding a solvent that cannot dissolve certain compounds at a colder temperature.

actually, flash chromatography if done right can yield wax that’s supposedly +90% pure THC. Doing it right, and then having documentation from a “testing lab” gives me an automatic competitive edge over everyone else. there’s this particular brand of oil that’s called “the clear”, and they claim those numbers. Seems popular since several shops carry that stuff. There’s three possibilities imo that come to mind when they achieve those numbers

I’m not actually trying to be a provider for patients, but more like a supplier to collectives. But becoming an actual provider is much easeir than people would expect from a legal standpoint. Safely aquaring enough money and starting material (plants) is the issue.

no, they put water in a bag, and then dry ice, and literally bubble out the cannabanoids

It’s not big, but it’s a very small minority. From what I can find, it’s the bigger dispensaries in Seattle and Denver that have these set ups going on. Eden Labs, has a demo of thc extraction with their supercritical fluid extraction machine. I don’t know of anybody who does Supercritical Extractions, and I only hypothesize that those who do are some of the bigger providers in California, Seattle, and Denver.

It’s a legal grey issue. You can get in serious trouble for having concentrates under federal law. But it’s not such a big deal for state police, but it can be also. However there are moves within the state to ban this. This is more due to people doing really dumb things ang blowing up the house.

one measure says c02 extractions would still be legal. \

More trouble can come from poeple simply taking to much, and there are rumors of collapsed lung that occurs in people who dab heavily. If there’s a push to regulate this, it’s going to go be heavily controlled, with probably strict guidelines.

yeah, it’s not gonna be easy, and even if I fail, this could be a great learning experience from a engineering standpoint and buisness standpoint.

Science funding is in such an awful state as of now; I remember I posted something in this thread regarding Obama’s “Brain Initiative” to increase grants for Neuroscience research. It totaled something like 40 grants or some bullshit the last time I checked, which means my PI and lab group had no way of getting this funding. Meanwhile the sequester did more damage than that to NIH as a whole. /rant

On another note, man there is a lot of shit “science” in here. Idealism is incompatible with a basic scientific perspective.

To be fair, that one guy who was posting the pseudoscience, the content does initially show accurate QM stuff. It was the jump to New Age-y conclusions that was bs.

Unless you’re talking about something in the first 12 or so pages, then I have no idea.

Also, it’s really interesting reading the last few posts. Interesting engineering applications. Makes me think about the direction I’m taking, ugh, on one hand having a physics degree instead of engineering degree means I’ll get into really in-depth physical math which is great, but on the other hand my undergrad thesis is handling atmospheric data from satellites which is BORING.

Consider what sort of division of labor goes on to maximize research productivity (ultimately under this publication-based competitive shitfest which research has become). Analyzing that data may be boring, but you’re actually part of a much larger force when you take part in it.

On topic, the main issue with the claims in those videos and which some members make is the regression back to pre-hegelian idealism, or subjective idealism. I won’t get into the history of philosophy too much in this thread, but let’s just differentiate Hegel from other postmodernists dated before him by their view that no objective truth exist (still fundamentally idealist, which means that they believe the material world is predicated on ideas or human thought). This is immediately bogus from a scientific perspective no matter what sort of justification they attempt to use as scientists understand that there is only one set of natural laws in which the universe operates (duh), and ideas while lagging behind a complete material understanding have no effect on the expression of natural laws to humanity; contradictions only present themselves at the most advanced level of organization (e.g. communication went from telegraphs to full video communication through solving contradictions one at a time). We are fundamentally materialist in philosophy, but not feuerbach’s materialism. Cause and effect are metaphysical conceptions.

That’s where I’ll leave the philosophy subject for now.

Being a physics major today is dangerous due to dwindling funding for research (if that’s what you’re interested in, not trying to discourage you though).
One thing: engineering typically simplifies scientific concepts to certain workable systems (tries to make them closed loop from my experience), and it is heavily based on design. If you’re interested in that, you might want to check out some engineering labs at your University/School.

Where do you study and what project are you working on?

This is by far the most fascinating read for me this year:

War in the womb

A ferocious biological struggle between mother and baby belies any sentimental ideas we might have about pregnancy

Even before conception life is a fight for survival…

I don’t know, I think I’ve gone too far to try to shift now. But yeah actually I’ve started weighing my passion for understanding the universe against what I can actually get from a physics-oriented career (mostly thinking about money for family and future). If I’m gonna give in, I’ll probably go med and just indulge in physics/engineering in my spare time.

I live and study in the Philippines. For my undergrad thesis I’m applying an operational algorithm on level 1B reflectance data from NASA’s TERRA/MODIS satellite in order to retrieve PM2.5 mass concentration at a 500m x 500m spatial resolution. My primary source is a publication by Hong Kong scientists who also specialize in remote-sensing; they developed an algorithm to retrieve aerosol optical depth (AOD) from the same TERRA/MODIS reflectance data I use. The main significance of their study is the spatial resolution. Before them, AOD was retrieved at a spatial resolution of 10km x 10km which is really coarse compared to what I’m doing. Plus there was another guy here in my university who studied about the correlation of AOD to PM2.5 concentration and developed an algorithm to substitute one with the other, so I’m basically combining the 2 algorithms and applying it to data over Metro Manila, which is the most urbanized region in our country. My final result will be a mapping of PM2.5 concentration over Metro Manila for each point in time, which may be useful for future atmospheric studies and possibly health-related studies.

My head hurts… this is hardly scientific. The comments section on that article is atrocious as well - attracting the exact type of audience which this writing was directed.

A lot of specialization to which I’m unfamiliar (I’m actually not a physicist, I’m a neuroscientist); that’s great keep up the curiosity. I’m not sure how funding works in the Philippines. Are most projects directly funded by national science institutions e.g. NSF in US?

I feel tempted to read more about particulate measurements from reading your research.

Well, we do have something like that, I think: the Department of Science and Technology, which receives a cut from the national budget that it then grants to researchers, but it has some restrictions. You’ll only get funding if you’re going to be publishing/presenting something abroad, and it has to be a master’s thesis, PhD thesis, or a research paper that you wrote after you get your PhD. I think there are some other restrictions, but yeah I can’t apply for funding because I’m still undergrad. Also the government regularly allocates a certain part of the budget on state universities, and I think some of those universities use the money for research purposes.

The university I go to is private, though, and handles its own funding. They “invest”, sort of, in the science departments (physics included) by allocating money towards lab facilities and conference registration fees and such. A portion of any awards or cash prizes that the students get for publications goes back to the university.

The few projects that I have seen were funded by the NSF.

I’m intrigued as to your reasoning, as this article was linked to me by a molecular biologist who does active research on centenarians and supercentenarians. Maybe I relay your thoughts to her, so I can get the full scope of your issues with the nature of the scientific research, or was it merely the way it was written?

Science funding is in an awful state right now. It is so vast that it has created bloated research programs that universities have learned to exploit to great benefit (most people would be surprised exactly what fractions of grants (tax $$$) goes to the universities as opposed to the research). Universities are pumping out grad degrees at such a rate to actually devalue them. In most STEM feilds in the US the market is so saturated recent PhDs are facing record unemployment. Per chance is your Neuroscience field one of the lucky ones? It is no coincidence that the only people parroting the ‘US is STEM deficient’ myth are education institutions, politicians, and savvy CEOs (the CEOs know that the Universities are diluting the value of the degrees to thier benefit). And universities arent really letting poor quality grad students go, they need them to keep teaching labs full of paying undergrads. It is easy as ever to get a PhD. The bubble created by the vast increases in NIH/NSF funding has left out of work PhDs rotting in deadend postdocs working 90h/wk for peanuts or leaving their feild altogether. Another side effect is the sense of entitlement that PIs feel for tax money to carry out research so they can keep the cycle going. Sure alot of the research is good and important, but alot of it is indeed of dubious value. How is the job placement in the Neuroscience field?

I actually know a guy who’s getting pretty much booted from his lab group (with his degree though, yay). I’m guessing his training grant ran out. I’m looking forward to postdoc limbo… not. Actually it has got so bad that my bro was competing with PhDs for a graduate entry level position.

It’s pretty bad: most of the new grants are being awarded in very specific fields of neuroengineering e.g. some related to neuromodulation. They’re claiming the research will be used to create a “memory stimulator” device for medical uses, but it is awarded by DARPA so I doubt that. I’m currently in a lab playing rescue with a grant application that sounded perfectly fine; the reason they rejected it was awe inducing levels of stupid.

Sorry for being so brief about my contention with this piece, I was kinda tired.

Most of the scientific claims are ‘interpreted’ with a very obvious philosophical guise. Take for example the issue regarding mouse embryos; the “ravaging” of the brain tissue could/should have been expected regardless of whichever ideological premise the viewer has for it’s occurrence - what’s actually going on is secreted cellular signals (mostly growth factors like vegf) generate/find blood vessels (angiogenesis is the term for it) in the adult via existing extra cellular matrix complexes and receptors. This isn’t a “war” unless someone is really trying to see it that way.

There are many more examples of this type of ‘interpretation’ of science throughout the article. Hopefully I was clear…