The SRK Science Thread 2.0

First off, you’re wrong about unicorns. There is no evidence in favor of the nonexistence of unicorns. Point me to it. It’s not there. HOWEVER, we also don’t have any evidence that unicorns do exist, and that is far more important, for reasons I will get to shortly.

Second off, I want to point out that I haven’t tried particularly hard to make a case for my own atheistic views, mainly because this is the science thread and whatever I believe is irrelevant when compared to that which is established fact. As such, I have done my best so far to couch what I’ve said on the subject in general rather than personal terms. I find it crass to divide other posters into camps such as atheists, the religious, or suchlike. Address the facts and the arguments based on those facts, not the character of the people advancing them.

(All bets are off outside this thread. Shitheadery will be dealt with appropriately.)

Third off, you have been accused of something that, if not trolling, is at least aiding and abetting trolling by somebody else. I want to make clear that I don’t care either way if this is so, and that I only discuss this because it’s a subject that’s interesting to me and that maybe other people might enjoy reading it if I talk about it a little.

Putting that outside, you are absolutely wrong with regard to the necessity of providing alternative hypotheses. Suppose that we have not so much as an inkling of how gravity works. We don’t have the discoveries of Newton or Einstein to back us up. All we have is the observation that if we drop something, it tends to fall downward. If you suggest that invisible fairies are taking that object from your hand and pulling it down to the ground, I am not wrong for doubting your assertion, nor am I wrong for asking you for evidence of the existence of these invisible fairies before I’m willing to accept your explanation as true. This has nothing to do with whether or not I offer you an alternative explanation. If it isn’t demonstrated to be true, it shouldn’t be accepted as true.

What you are essentially saying is that, in the absence of any competing explanations, the person who proposes the only explanation is the one who deserves to be believed–purely on principle that his is the only explanation. This is completely irrespective of what basis that explanation is made on, even if there is no basis at all, because nobody has offered anything else. It doesn’t take much imagination to come up with scenarios in which this approach goes badly awry. And, in fact, it is this approach from which many incorrect beliefs have stemmed that have since been debunked by the scientific approach of doubting everything on principle.

You may want to look up scientific skepticism, the null hypothesis, and the philosophic burden of proof for a more elaborate explanation of why what I’m telling you is so.

For the record, nobody, not even the greatest scientific minds on Earth, adhere to these strictures perfectly. For one thing, nobody’s perfectly consistent about doing anything. We can forgive lapses in anybody’s behavior so long as it doesn’t cause a homicide or a persecution or something like that.

For another thing, applying habitual doubt to every last little thing in a person’s everyday life is impractical. There’s a reason why we have rules of thumb, common sense, and so forth. But for the really important stuff–such as if your friend tells you that it’s safe to open the gas valve on your stove and huff what comes out of it, or if cigarette companies tell you that their latest product is good for your health rather than bad for it, or if an ancient blood cult tells you that everything in existence was magicked down from the heavens thousands of years ago by an omnipotent being that cares deeply about your masturbatory habits–you should probably think twice about what you’re being told and demand some sort of concrete reason for believing as such. It is not enough, nor is it a requirement, that you simply be told differently by somebody else.

The thing is, when skeptical thinkers mess up in any way that matters, it’s usually other skeptical thinkers who catch it–such as in the scientific community, because calling bullshit when you see it is one of the essential things that enable science to work. The best available information changes constantly, and science changes in response–not with 100% perfection, but with a far better track record than literally any other way of thinking I’m aware of.

Now that I’ve gotten that out of my system, SHIT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF LIFE ON FRICKIN’ MARS. Let me point out that all our direct studies of the habitability of Mars have so far been localized to the surface of the planet. It seems like there hasn’t been as much interest in the environment below the surface, which may yet contain a presently hospitable zone for life. Mars is not currently a geologically active planet, but it was in the past, which leaves open the possibility of caves, geothermal heat, organic molecules, underground water flow, and so on.

I love Mars.

But Jupiter terrifies me for reasons I’m not sure I can fully explain.

First, i take great interest in the subject of god and science just like you but this whole argument was made out of a troll post by cisco and because of that it pains me to participate in it now. But to the things you said here; like i said before it’s not just the lack of evidence but evidence against the existence of magic unicorns that makes them fiction. The evidence that they don’t exist takes out the evidence that supports them (which is 0). The reason why this comparison is weak when we try to show why God can’t exist is because if there is lack of evidence that god exists then we are giving in to the possibility that language with in the cosmos to dna, intelligent life, our morality, the functioning of the cosmos was all accident. There is just too many scientific and mathematical contradictions already when eliminating god. T

Just like that room example: if you came back to a room that was suddenly fixed up, is it logical to just say it happened because of any lack of evidence for anybody else doing it? if you decide to quote me please give an answer for that in that post. The room being organized is evidence for a mind that did it already; there is no need for anything else. That context is the same logic that is with god, the universe is his evidence because the universe has a language it all functions in for the earth and the earth responds to it’s energy in order to go on it’s motion. Saying it just happen is pure contradictory to physics and saying there is lack of evidence regardless of all that is in the universe is what makes your arguments not accurate. I see the universe as evidence of a god (maybe not in the same sense as many) because of it working. My problem with atheism on this subject is that i see their take on things (evidence) as hypocritical. If they dismiss god due to “lack of evidence” than how come they support a “no-god” when there is no evidence that language and work can just happen with out an intelligence. Science is a work, can it exist with out the minds of humans? The reason why we are able to have science in the first place is because we are able to read our universe so i don’t understand how you can still see that as lack of proof because what other answer fits perfectly than an intelligence.

No. In order to show something is wrong you need to explain why another answer is correct. Take a look at Galileo, he needed to show examples to debunk the Heliocentric theory, he did go barge in with only “you’re wrong”. No. He explained why he was right, he showed them the evidence and even gave visible demonstrations seen in the sky. Samething with Columbus who went out to prove the earth wasn’t flat, by showing examples first using boats that fade in the horizon. All things were refuted scientifically because a different answer was given to show why it is wrong and it was possible to debate just basic visible things in nature. That should be same when arguing about god as the origin of everything in the universe. Another possibility that is accessible needs to be shown.

Your fairies example is additionally an easy thing to refute just simply based on the fact that not even 1% of the human population ever believed it, even during the times predating science… and that is important in terms of social science in identifying fact from fiction. Invisible fairies lack any examples already so it’s ends as a poor answer which is the samething with the no-god. Last, Gravity is seen mathematically therefore the evidence refutes any statement of fairies being the other answer. Non-existing things and wrong hypothesis’ were refuted by math and explanations to support the different hypothesis’ and it is always been like that in science.

I do think the discussion on the cosmologies (which is a god argument) is a good science debate but i can’t speak for myself. Just for the respect for White shadow we should leave this conversation for another thread or the pm’s. Unless discussions like this is ok with White Shadow.

Yes, I would recommend that you do send this to PMs and I appreciate your consideration. I’ve spent over a decade logically discussing science/atheism x religion on this site and have become tiresome of its cyclical nature.

Is it worth me reading the last couple of pages? Or should I just forget this thread even exists?

Just forget the last page exists. Just start again from this point.

In the interest of casting aspersions on everybody but myself, which I thoroughly enjoy doing, I personally touched on that particular topic just barely and confined most of my writing to the nature of science and necessity of doubt in any scientific endeavor. :coffee:

If there was ever once a thriving biosphere on mars (even if only eukaryotic pre-plant type) that carbon would likely remain. You know we gonna need that Mars petroleum.
Drill Curiosity, drill!

That’d be one way to get Republicans to invest in space exploration.

Electromagnetism, special relativity, and you.

I say old bean, link a brother up! If you click back I’ll only end up reading every post and hate myself and everybody else for it.

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2013/september/slac-chip-accelerator-092713.html

Fulltext from Nature: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vnfv/ncurrent/full/nature12664.html

This could possibly lead to more compact medical imaging devices… I’m imagining those scanners from the Star Trek movies.

Also, a little bit of psychology:

Being poor will reduce your intelligence; it’s not something that you would’ve needed a publication to demonstrate to people in poverty, but for those who have trouble understanding, this should provide an informative statistical approach.

Maybe someone could possibly replicate the results from a neurology or neuroscience approach (which I would favor). Which cortical areas are more likely to be impaired by weight in poor people?

I’m guessing anterior cingulate cortex or dorsal-lateral prefrontal cortex.

welp, NASA is shutdown for the time being :frowning:

And it may throw a serious wrench into the gears of our next Mars mission

iIll post the book later

but interesting point on fresh air.

Birth control, and the reduced amount of children women bear has a direct consequence on breast cancer…

use condoms on your lady’s folk lest you want her to lose her boobs.

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/artscience/2013/10/this-alkaline-african-lake-turns-animals-into-stone

I can’t find any more information about that lake, other than Flamingos nest there.

Was anyone able to find any other pictures, videos, or articles discussing that? Especially color pictures…

All I see is one dedicated photographer with black and white film.

I just want to know more.

One of my favorite vids ever. What the planets would look like if they were as close as the Moon.


I need this to happen now.

though I doubt it would behave like a light saber.
since the light saber cuts, ie, separates molecules and atoms from each other, like a steel saber does…this photon made saber may not be able to do that. but who knows maybe it can. I mean if the photons binding one another create some intense electricity field that causes atoms from a nearby object to separate from one another.

if you wanna make a energy blade that can cut through anything like a light saber…it has to be able to easily break the atoms electron bond of an object.

for example. if you drop an orange from your roof to hard pavement. the only reason why the orange doesn’t shatter into a million pieces is due to the disparity between the weakness of gravity and the intense energy of electricity/electrons binding atoms together. if electron binding was weak as gravity…that orange would shatter into a billion pieces instantly. it would literally disappear from sight. every atom binding it together would be flung from each other from the impact of the fall.

so the best way to make a energy saber that would be able to cut anything like a hot knife through butter…would be a saber that can weaken or reverse an atom’s electric bond with a nearby atom.
one way is to have a much greater intense electric field or surge that would disrupt these electron binding from objects.

which happens every time a lightning bolt cuts a tree in half vertically
http://nihongo.wunderground.com/wximage/thinker/16?gallery=
like so

That’s cool and all, but we still don’t have hover boards :sad:

SRK: Emboldened to attack, meeting opposing viewpoints with nothing more than condescending dismissal and cowardice…

Anonymity is a poison. Yet it remains one of the hallmarks of contemporary science communication (and roadrage). I think anonymous peer review will die out. I am definitely not alone in this thinking (prob late to the party):
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/342/6154/66.full

Anonymity of reviewers removes responsibility. This releases peer reviewers (who have more important things to do like harass underlings and grovel to the govt for $) from taking the peer review system seriously. It also conceals ulterior competitive motives and enables thievery. The latter forces some investigators to delay publishing even further until they have secured a patent.

…"Peer review happens *after *publication"
The current system established by publishers isnt reliable (or cheap to subscribers). However (at least in some spots where it has let us down), Tracz’s “radical” model is already at work (via the blogosphere). Some recent (and hilarious) proof of concept examples:
http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2013/08/13/alleged-data-manipulation-in-nano-letters-and-acs-nano-from-the-pease-group/
http://retractionwatch.wordpress.com/2013/08/08/insert-data-here-did-researcher-instruct-co-author-to-make-up-results-for-chemistry-paper/
http://blog.chembark.com/2013/08/19/some-very-peculiar-nmr-spectra-in-organic-letters/

The consequences for authors in this system would seem more commensurate with the scientific crimes being committed. With anonymous peer review, your crappy or fraudulent paper gets rejected and your lazy work or nonexisent ethics never see the light of day. With the publish-first, peer-review-as-we-go model, where the scientific community as a whole gets to vet your work in an open environment, the consequences to your reputation are dire (see above examples).

Is also a great model for encouraging communication and working out finer details, crowdsource style:
http://blog-syn.blogspot.com/2013/02/blog-syn-003-benzylic-oxidation-of_18.html
^FYI: that is a MacArthur fellow being challenged on his work by a mere pseudonymous blogger (anonymity as antidote. hahaa). And the awardee responding in full due to concern for his reputation, and in the end literally everybody wins…

Information is power. Another aspect of the open-source publishing model is that everyone would have access to the research. This would also alleviate any percieved injustices regarding publicly funded research that is kept behind a paywall to the very people who funded it.

Support open source, if you have a chance. And stop acting like SRKmonkeymen online.

naysayers?

also: Hubcapsignstop is my real name.

Not a single “hahaa” in that post. Something’s not right.

Edit: Now there is. Nevermind.