The Spider's Lair - Juri

[Frost]

It’s not that I hadn’t realised she was bad, every time I play people the first question I get asked is “Why do you play Juri?” hell my friend who got into SF one week ago told me to drop Juri because she’s ass.

I always thought it was the character holding me back a bit but to be completely honest it’s me playing poorly. I suck at optimising Juri, I’m bad at playing hit&run and want to play nonstop aggression.

But she’s so fuuuuuun D: but the issue about her being fun is that whilst she’s fun SFV is only fun at high level, so to stay at high level I either need to improve a lot or stay on Kolin. I don’t wanna feel like I gave up and plateau’d though. That’s like admitting defeat.

[stormdetonation]

It’s beating a dead horse at this point, but give us USF4 Juri back.

Here’s hoping they remember us long time Juri mains with her new VT

[Frost]

I’m making a private Discord to store all the info I’m using to relearn Juri. You’re all free to come into it, but you won’t have permissions to fuck around with my threads outside of the general chat.

[Skort]

@stormdetonation you talking about her former skills ? Even if that happens. To have your former abilities locked behind a timer is a kick in the nuts unless you suggest they make it permanent like Necalli’s

Juri needs a combination of quite a few QoL changes and frame changes as well as some core elements of the game itself changing ( CC toned down ) and some of the top tier getting toned down. Sadly i doubt that is ever going to happen, but we shall see in a few months.

[stormdetonation]

@Skort you’re right. We won’t see Juri zoning until getting meter for FSE then rushing down again… in this game anyway.

It still pisses me off that they took a new character that was so popular and decided to totally rework her kit.

If they did do like you said and make her like Necalli, it would be exactly the opposite of my old game plan… we’d be semi rushing down until we had meter to zone. That could be fun, but frustrating opponents with zoning so they do something dumb and got opened up with FSE was what made Juri Juri to me…

@Froztey I’d like to read through whatever it is you post in the discord… also are you on crack yet? I’d like to play you in that game too, if so.

[stronzolo]

@Froztey I’d really like to have access to this private discord.
@stormdetonation I bought crack today we should play sometimes

[johnyr3d]

[details=Spoiler]Me too, but doubt it wi

Been meaning to write this for a while.

The lack of options I feel playing Juri, especially when playing against high level opponents, really annoys me to the point that the character stopped being fun. I like her buttons, I like her combos but I hate how she’s forced to give up her turn to store, or that she’s forced to back up fullscreen just to avoid being punished for stores in neutral, I hate how her VT is short lived and doesn’t allow combos from OH and that fireball knocks down so her VT fireball set-ups suck. I think her fireball should be way more + on block after seeing characters like Menat and Ibuki have these outrageously strong store-esque moves. I dislike that her 4f punishes are bad, have low damage output even with stores and without stores/bar you can’t secure a knockdown. Juri isn’t worth it atm, if I’m against anybody who is on the same level as me - I do honestly feel handicapped by her. Her store design limits the player into very shortlived pressure due to the one-time nature of her release specials. I like the characters personality, design and gameplay but a lot of the issues within her design have put me off trying or just get me frustrated when I’m in matches.

“Oh shit, I’m out of resources. I can’t close the gap now, I either run or try to start some block pressure somehow to get a safe store.” or “I’m pressuring with a lack of stores, do I really need to spend a bar for a knockdown here or do I just LK.Pinwheel for a restand?”

All of this is annoying, and good players won’t let you store for free. No EX stores to get everything immediately and tons of consistency issues with counter-hit strings like cr.lp > st.mp > st.mk not combo’ing correctly due to counter-hit pushback ruin things for me. I can’t be bothered to invest time into Juri any more, I really can’t push the character far enough this season. I’m out until Season 3 because I’m not having fun against high level players. And that really makes me sad.

I’ve got a lot of hours on Juri, but couldn’t keep Diamond with her because of how poorly I personally performed with the character. But these are my suggestions for what I’d like to see in S3 for her, and it’ll probably be my last suggestion list, and is a changelist that I think would easily put her in top 5 territory - but every change stems from an issue I have with the design, looking to correct design issues as opposed to just buffing her senselessly.

• LK.Pinwheel to knockdown.
  Storeless combo enders need to be better and give knockdowns. MK.Ryo doesn’t cover backrise/quickrise effectively, LK.Pinwheel to give better oki but less corner carry than MK.Ryo. Also improves cr.mk confirms and jab confirms.

• St.mp pushback on hit/block greatly reduced.
  Block pressure needs to become stronger, and makes counter-hit combos less inconsistent. Potential tick throw game from st.mp.

• Store hitbox greatly expanded forward.
  More blockstring options for safe stores, with better spacing potential post-block. Also helps timing of fireball dissipation.

• LK.release to be +1 on block, projectile speed increased 10%.
  LK.release as a “one-off” special is not strong enough, increase projectile speed to balance out spaced fireball pressure and create tighter block pressure, also allows further combo potential via cancels.

• HK.release damage nerf from season 1 reverted.
  No need for damage decrease, unsure why this happened in the first place.

• V-Trigger cancelled normals into normals cost less V-Meter, damage of store specials increased whilst in VT, fireball no longer knocks down.
  V-Trigger needs extreme revamp to be anywhere near as strong as other 3-bar installs.(See Bison, Ken.)

• EX Store added to allow all three stores at once.
  This is an almost necessary requirement to allow Juri to sacrifice meter for fast resource gain.

• Round start with all 3 stored specials available.
  Juri does not need to backdash every round start considering her rushdown rework in SFV. Completely counter-intuitive.

The aim of my balance adjustments is to empower her stores, improve her weak block pressure via a st.mp adjustment and improved LK.release whilst retaining the precise nature of her neutral and pressure.

[/details]

I agree on most of these,. My issue with KD after lk pinwheel is that she gets a really good setup with the re-stand. You are +2 landing pinwheel, perfect for meaty grab 50/50.

LK release can already be made +2 on block via spacing; making it +1 oB means it can be +5 oB with perfect spacing which could lead to cancer pressure, 0 or even -1 would make it a ton more manageable.

I agree with her V trigger not being long enough, honestly if we could chain cancel overhead in V-trigger it would be enough to make it a round changer.

I think overall we are all in the same position regarding the changes we think she needs, hopefully she gets something decent next season.

[Frost]

Discord - Free voice and text chat for gamers

Link never expires, haven’t started labbing yet but will add stuff as I learn. If you want a cool colour in the server just ask me.

@stormdetonation I have crack thanks to @LordWilliam1234 but I haven’t touched it a lot, they aren’t my kind of games. I was playing Gamora/Jedah.

[Frost]

[details=Spoiler]Me too, but doubt it wi

Been meaning to write this for a while.

The lack of options I feel playing Juri, especially when playing against high level opponents, really annoys me to the point that the character stopped being fun. I like her buttons, I like her combos but I hate how she’s forced to give up her turn to store, or that she’s forced to back up fullscreen just to avoid being punished for stores in neutral, I hate how her VT is short lived and doesn’t allow combos from OH and that fireball knocks down so her VT fireball set-ups suck. I think her fireball should be way more + on block after seeing characters like Menat and Ibuki have these outrageously strong store-esque moves. I dislike that her 4f punishes are bad, have low damage output even with stores and without stores/bar you can’t secure a knockdown. Juri isn’t worth it atm, if I’m against anybody who is on the same level as me - I do honestly feel handicapped by her. Her store design limits the player into very shortlived pressure due to the one-time nature of her release specials. I like the characters personality, design and gameplay but a lot of the issues within her design have put me off trying or just get me frustrated when I’m in matches.

“Oh shit, I’m out of resources. I can’t close the gap now, I either run or try to start some block pressure somehow to get a safe store.” or “I’m pressuring with a lack of stores, do I really need to spend a bar for a knockdown here or do I just LK.Pinwheel for a restand?”

All of this is annoying, and good players won’t let you store for free. No EX stores to get everything immediately and tons of consistency issues with counter-hit strings like cr.lp > st.mp > st.mk not combo’ing correctly due to counter-hit pushback ruin things for me. I can’t be bothered to invest time into Juri any more, I really can’t push the character far enough this season. I’m out until Season 3 because I’m not having fun against high level players. And that really makes me sad.

I’ve got a lot of hours on Juri, but couldn’t keep Diamond with her because of how poorly I personally performed with the character. But these are my suggestions for what I’d like to see in S3 for her, and it’ll probably be my last suggestion list, and is a changelist that I think would easily put her in top 5 territory - but every change stems from an issue I have with the design, looking to correct design issues as opposed to just buffing her senselessly.

• LK.Pinwheel to knockdown.
  Storeless combo enders need to be better and give knockdowns. MK.Ryo doesn’t cover backrise/quickrise effectively, LK.Pinwheel to give better oki but less corner carry than MK.Ryo. Also improves cr.mk confirms and jab confirms.

• St.mp pushback on hit/block greatly reduced.
  Block pressure needs to become stronger, and makes counter-hit combos less inconsistent. Potential tick throw game from st.mp.

• Store hitbox greatly expanded forward.
  More blockstring options for safe stores, with better spacing potential post-block. Also helps timing of fireball dissipation.

• LK.release to be +1 on block, projectile speed increased 10%.
  LK.release as a “one-off” special is not strong enough, increase projectile speed to balance out spaced fireball pressure and create tighter block pressure, also allows further combo potential via cancels.

• HK.release damage nerf from season 1 reverted.
  No need for damage decrease, unsure why this happened in the first place.

• V-Trigger cancelled normals into normals cost less V-Meter, damage of store specials increased whilst in VT, fireball no longer knocks down.
  V-Trigger needs extreme revamp to be anywhere near as strong as other 3-bar installs.(See Bison, Ken.)

• EX Store added to allow all three stores at once.
  This is an almost necessary requirement to allow Juri to sacrifice meter for fast resource gain.

• Round start with all 3 stored specials available.
  Juri does not need to backdash every round start considering her rushdown rework in SFV. Completely counter-intuitive.

The aim of my balance adjustments is to empower her stores, improve her weak block pressure via a st.mp adjustment and improved LK.release whilst retaining the precise nature of her neutral and pressure.

[/details]

I agree on most of these,. My issue with KD after lk pinwheel is that she gets a really good setup with the re-stand. You are +2 landing pinwheel, perfect for meaty grab 50/50.

LK release can already be made +2 on block via spacing; making it +1 oB means it can be +5 oB with perfect spacing which could lead to cancer pressure, 0 or even -1 would make it a ton more manageable.

I agree with her V trigger not being long enough, honestly if we could chain cancel overhead in V-trigger it would be enough to make it a round changer.

I think overall we are all in the same position regarding the changes we think she needs, hopefully she gets something decent next season.

I find restands just a worse knockdown honestly, unless the opponent is incredibly mashy after LK.Pinwheel which I’m not finding much of at this point. Grab mix-up only works at point-blank otherwise walk forward is needed.

The LK.Release change takes spaced fireball pressure into account, and buffs closer pressure. The increased projectile speed will balance out spaced fireball pressure by having it hit earlier at a distance, lowering your advantage for spacing it but still being an overall improvement. Point blank fireballs also enforce respect now, which I think 100% needs to happen. If I had it my way she’d still be able to link from fireballs on hit.

V-Trigger needs a big time extension to be anywhere near useful.

[stronzolo]

I guess we’re all playing Jedah on Mahvel since we’re all men of refined taste, I claim exclusiveness on him due to his moves names being in italian:coffe:

[stormdetonation]

@stormdetonation I bought crack today we should play sometimes

Cool. I’ll look for you next time I can play.

I haven’t settled on a team yet but either Ghost Rider/Morrigan or GR/Gamora are my favorites so far… then again I really like Nemesis this time too.

[stronzolo]

there’s no crossplatform in crack so I hope you purchased the pc version just like me and froztey

[DevilJin_01]

I’m playing Team Darkstalkers and most likely will pick up Dante/Morrigan also. Dante is too derpy to not use and it seems like the way the meta is going you need at least one character with derp conversions off shit that bounces. Hopefully I can find some good Dante combos in Time Storm. Still looking for the best ones for Morrigan.

I’ll most likely get back into playing SFV some in the next week or so. Have a good feeling Juri will be in a good spot by AE.

[ZioSerpe]

LK release can already be made +2 on block via spacing; making it +1 oB means it can be +5 oB with perfect spacing which could lead to cancer pressure

God forbid!
Seriously with all the shit other Characters get away with, would Juri having one pressure tool be that bad?
But Rashid being plus on everything is ok.

Anyway I spent a lovely hour and a half the other day getting destroyed in a lobby by a diamond Kolin,
After he won 7 FT3 he decided to switch to Ed, AND I FUCKING WON A FT3. in response he switched to what I now know to be that guys main, a lvl65 Rashid. Played him anyway because I have had my win, and wanted to keep learning.
Anyway set aside from the fact that the guy played only gimmicky characters, with Ed being the most honest (PSYCHO UPPER!), I see what Froztey says, more or less. In in all the matches played agaibnst the guys Kolin I was doing my absolute best to adapt, I was starting to read him and counter him, and yes I know the disparity in our level was immense, but fuck sake I was just fucked most of the time. Expecially when he ended a string minus and I went for it and got countered.

[Garu]

@ZioSerpe I know right, a lot of Juri players mind is fucked up already they are too used to shit stuff.

[stormdetonation]

there’s no crossplatform in crack so I hope you purchased the pc version just like me and froztey

Fuck…

[stronzolo]

there’s no crossplatform in crack so I hope you purchased the pc version just like me and froztey

Fuck…

in the case your pc can run the game you can find it for 15/19 € on many stores

[johnyr3d]

LK release can already be made +2 on block via spacing; making it +1 oB means it can be +5 oB with perfect spacing which could lead to cancer pressure

God forbid!
Seriously with all the shit other Characters get away with, would Juri having one pressure tool be that bad?
But Rashid being plus on everything is ok.

Hey, Juri could definitely use a broken tool, but I would prefer her internal issues be fixed first, that way she doesn’t have to be broken to be good. Adjusting her stMP pushback would be a more cleaner fix. I’d like to be able to stagger stMP looking for CH into crMK or MP TC if character is standing. Having crHP be a real anti air with CC possibilites would also be nice and lead to sick oki. i.e. Anti Air CC into jMPxxLP Pinwheel oki or super

[Nhazul4769]

Been meaning to write this for a while.

The lack of options I feel playing Juri, especially when playing against high level opponents, really annoys me to the point that the character stopped being fun. I like her buttons, I like her combos but I hate how she’s forced to give up her turn to store, or that she’s forced to back up fullscreen just to avoid being punished for stores in neutral, I hate how her VT is short lived and doesn’t allow combos from OH and that fireball knocks down so her VT fireball set-ups suck. I think her fireball should be way more + on block after seeing characters like Menat and Ibuki have these outrageously strong store-esque moves. I dislike that her 4f punishes are bad, have low damage output even with stores and without stores/bar you can’t secure a knockdown. Juri isn’t worth it atm, if I’m against anybody who is on the same level as me - I do honestly feel handicapped by her. Her store design limits the player into very shortlived pressure due to the one-time nature of her release specials. I like the characters personality, design and gameplay but a lot of the issues within her design have put me off trying or just get me frustrated when I’m in matches.

“Oh shit, I’m out of resources. I can’t close the gap now, I either run or try to start some block pressure somehow to get a safe store.” or “I’m pressuring with a lack of stores, do I really need to spend a bar for a knockdown here or do I just LK.Pinwheel for a restand?”

All of this is annoying, and good players won’t let you store for free. No EX stores to get everything immediately and tons of consistency issues with counter-hit strings like cr.lp > st.mp > st.mk not combo’ing correctly due to counter-hit pushback ruin things for me. I can’t be bothered to invest time into Juri any more, I really can’t push the character far enough this season. I’m out until Season 3 because I’m not having fun against high level players. And that really makes me sad.

I’ve got a lot of hours on Juri, but couldn’t keep Diamond with her because of how poorly I personally performed with the character. But these are my suggestions for what I’d like to see in S3 for her, and it’ll probably be my last suggestion list, and is a changelist that I think would easily put her in top 5 territory - but every change stems from an issue I have with the design, looking to correct design issues as opposed to just buffing her senselessly.

• LK.Pinwheel to knockdown.
  Storeless combo enders need to be better and give knockdowns. MK.Ryo doesn’t cover backrise/quickrise effectively, LK.Pinwheel to give better oki but less corner carry than MK.Ryo. Also improves cr.mk confirms and jab confirms.

• St.mp pushback on hit/block greatly reduced.
  Block pressure needs to become stronger, and makes counter-hit combos less inconsistent. Potential tick throw game from st.mp.

• Store hitbox greatly expanded forward.
  More blockstring options for safe stores, with better spacing potential post-block. Also helps timing of fireball dissipation.

• LK.release to be +1 on block, projectile speed increased 10%.
  LK.release as a “one-off” special is not strong enough, increase projectile speed to balance out spaced fireball pressure and create tighter block pressure, also allows further combo potential via cancels.

• HK.release damage nerf from season 1 reverted.
  No need for damage decrease, unsure why this happened in the first place.

• V-Trigger cancelled normals into normals cost less V-Meter, damage of store specials increased whilst in VT, fireball no longer knocks down.
  V-Trigger needs extreme revamp to be anywhere near as strong as other 3-bar installs.(See Bison, Ken.)

• EX Store added to allow all three stores at once.
  This is an almost necessary requirement to allow Juri to sacrifice meter for fast resource gain.

• Round start with all 3 stored specials available.
  Juri does not need to backdash every round start considering her rushdown rework in SFV. Completely counter-intuitive.

The aim of my balance adjustments is to empower her stores, improve her weak block pressure via a st.mp adjustment and improved LK.release whilst retaining the precise nature of her neutral and pressure.

Pretty much agree with everything mentioned here. Something I would personally like to see is:

• Standing Heavy Kick given a few frames where it’s considered airborne
• Medium Fuha release being an overhead
• Ex.Fuha release being chainable from medium and heavy release
• Crouching Heavy Punch hitbox/hurtbox adjusted so it can properly anti-air

[ZioSerpe]

LK release can already be made +2 on block via spacing; making it +1 oB means it can be +5 oB with perfect spacing which could lead to cancer pressure

God forbid!
Seriously with all the shit other Characters get away with, would Juri having one pressure tool be that bad?
But Rashid being plus on everything is ok.

Hey, Juri could definitely use a broken tool, but I would prefer her internal issues be fixed first, that way she doesn’t have to be broken to be good. Adjusting her stMP pushback would be a more cleaner fix. I’d like to be able to stagger stMP looking for CH into crMK or MP TC if character is standing. Having crHP be a real anti air with CC possibilites would also be nice and lead to sick oki. i.e. Anti Air CC into jMPxxLP Pinwheel oki or super

I don’t think it would be broken, it would just give Juri some prolonged pressure, which she does not have. I mean even with that all she’d get after if the opponent is blocking is three more attacks in before being minus again.