The Shinobi Secrets: Ibuki Video Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1741

@mingo

Ah I just checked frame data, condor spire is very punishable. Good to note. I was wondering what else there was to punish besides condor spire that i missed? I was rewatching the matches and I give you that they weren’t hard punishes but I thought I punished in general (rather than not punishing as you listed in your cons). THawk owned my antiair attempts.

You’re right that I don’t okizemi that much, I haven’t worked out the kinks in trip vortex yet. Majority of my knockdowns were from trips in those matches. I also prefer to maintain corner pressure rather than going for a vortex that can get them out of it as seen in my ryu match so I do less okizemi in the corner. I get the life lead, corner them, force them to make a move to get in and if they don’t I chip them.

I actually hate using ibuki’s pokes, and i only use her pokes as an counterpoke/dash punish OS into neckbreaker. My ground game revolves around punishing their pokes and then move in when they stop pressing buttons (but stopping the button presses feels like it takes a long time to establish online).

I was contemplating whether to record from playing live or replays. I decided to do live just because it can show when it does lag which can explain why I would do certain things. (I dropped links so that was fail on my part, I wasn’t baiting anything)

As for why I use tsumuji is because I try to vary my vortex options so I actually switch from a lot. Tsumuji can be a lot trickier to figure out because it’s spacing dependent (from what combo I hit them with) and there are no obvious cues as in neckbreaker. I understand that most people are not able to recognize the mixup that I play online but I taught my offline friends how to defend against it so that’s why I have a habit of mixing it up a lot.

Thanks for the Thawk tips, they help a lot.

1742

Well no one is really pointing out anything in your Ryu match so I’ll give it a shot. Here’s a couple things I noticed:

1)Learn the amount of hit stun the Kunai does.

  • After your first knockdown you go into Kunai vortex and even though it hit you either didn’t press anything (in fear of Dragon Punch?) or you pressed something too early and it didn’t come out. This could probably be figured out easier if you had input display on but whatever. You also later tried to press jab after he blocked your cross up lk. So instead of pressing jab when the Kunai hit, you press it when it’s unsafe after a jump in lk. Hmmmmmmm.

2)Target Combo.

  • You were only letting the MP hit once in the target combo where in most if not all cases, you could have done more damage for free if you let the second MP hit. Her target combos are really slow, so unless it’s cause of a cross up/crouch/character specific whatever, go for all the hits.

3)Neck breaker finish

-So you say you like to vary your vortex huh? Do you know how many times you finished a combo in neck breaker? Zero. Let me ask you this. Are you afraid of inputting neck breaker after doing your jab jab MK string? Cause that’s how I was. I use to tell people the same exact thing also, “I like the mix up after the Tsumuji” when in reality I was just afraid of missing the neck breaker input. Just practice it. It’s obvious you don’t use neck breaker enough because the only times you DO hit it (from punishes, good job) you completely butcher the jump in after. Could have been a one time thing, but your ex neck breaker’s was pretty off.

4)Jab jab jab -> nothing

  • This is a problem with most starting Ibuki players. You do not land a single MK from the crouching jab position. And another thing is that you do not know how many jabs to do after a cross up. I guess there really isn’t much to say except to work on this. Just wanted to make it known.

5)Auto Pilot sweeps

-Yeah I’m gonna go there. Mingo gave you credit for baiting with jabs and punishing with sweep but I don’t think that’s the case. Yes, her sweep is good, but you’re letting that get to you. It’s cool that you like to bait them and all but you have to actually react to stuff. You can’t just sweep because it’s fast because as you can see, people can react to your whiff sweep and punish it accordingly. I use to do this a lot but after a couple CR FP into EX Seimos you get to learn to stop doing this.

Um, I think that’s it maybe. I guess there’s things like, bad ultra/super decisions and poor command dashes but these are just things you learn as you play her. Just keep at it.

1743

Okizeme in the corner is fine. If he happens to block correctly, just SJC your block string and get back to the other side. Unless your opponent is really gdlk and has gdlk reflexes and punishes your landing, but this is unlikely considering you can also throw a kunai somewhere in there to mix it up.

Actually I’d highly recommend you go for corner okizeme every chance you get. Ibuki’s dmg output and mixup game really shine when your opponent is in the corner. TC4 xx EX tsumuji , cr.HP and mixup.

Lag is unfortunate but you should probably try to avoid playing laggy matches. There’s no point in learning how to get good with lag, when almost every reputable tournament is hosted offline.

1744

Nope you lose all pressure. You are out of range to do anything against someone who did nothing on wake up.

Like I said this is similar to Blanka’s ball mix ups on wake up and can be defeated in the exact same fashion. In fact it is even easier. You need to learn how people really auto correct to understand what makes a good mix up and what doesn’t.

Not trying to rain on your parade, but there is some problems I can see with that mix up.

1745

@izuna

Haha that makoto had some nice tricks up her sleeve! I see how you use your pokes against her and got you neckbreakers. I actually do the same against them just because their dash is far and has a long duration. I couldn’t study poking in your Fei match but that’s because it was a heavy rushdown oriented game. On a side note, nice pushing Fei while dizzy to the corner.

@littlesushi

Yeah the block stun duration of each kunai mixup varies depending on when I throw it and when I land.
1.) I haven’t studied my setups enough to figure out which setups have a certain amoutn of blockstun when I land. Now I plan to! Oh and my pause after the kunai that you’re talking about was a reversal bait. I try to do that early in a round to establish whether they’re going to mash reversals or not.
2.) In some threads I remember if you do the entire two hit part of the target combo it would whiff so I just got accustomed to doing the first hit. Since that combo was a punish, I should finish it. Good to notice that thanks.
3.) When I first read that I was about to say that these were just two matches and i didn’t think it would showcase my actual vortex ability. Now that I look into my match with my friend (i’m going to post it below), I actually didn’t go for it at all within our 20 minutes of playing. My mentality of course is to mix things up but apparently I’m autopiloting my options now (i blame my week of mvc3 haha). I have to stop doing so. Combo ability to neckbreaker isn’t my problem, it’s my mentality I have to fix.
4.) Yeah I messed up my plink, I have to practice that more.
5.) My standing Jab and sweep is my specific setup against ryu. But you’re right, I started autopiloting it in that match. It’s a problem when I think it’s completely safe I’ll just keep doing it if it works (it’s not completely safe, ryu can punish it with a sweep but I can punish sweep even harder w/ focus dash in if he starts doing that and it’s a bait for ryus).

@Mingo

My friends have godlike reactions if they start to see it so I wouldn’t want to rely SJC out of blockstrings on that. Although I might throw it in randomly but I would prefer not to use it consistently. As for mixup in the corner in general, I prefer not to go for it unless I am in desperate need to do so. In the ryu matches I had a life lead so I didn’t want to throw it away. But you’re right, she does a lot of damage in the corner.

Thanks for your input you guys! I deeply appreciate it.

Here’s another set if you can help me out again. It’s against one of my buddies XsK Samurai, a ryu player, in casuals we had but he completely dominates me. When we play he tries to do different things so I could react/adapt better to different types of players. I studied my matches also and I have problems autopiloting certain scenarios and as littlesushi pointed out, I didn’t mix in neckbreaker mixups. There’s more but I am curious if you can help me out.

It’s about 20 minutes of playing. Thanks in advanced.

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1746

I only saw part 1. You say this XsK guy “tries to different things so [you] could react/adapt better to different types of players” but I don’t see anything different beyond the standard Ryu play. With the exception of random jump back lp (to look like an idiot or something?) and over-reliance on jab dp as his go-to reversal (maybe he’s too accustomed to online and thinks it’s not punishable?).

Pros:

  1. You still have good spacing
  2. You still have very patient play

Major Cons:

  1. Your antiair game is still terrible. You may have good spacing, but it’s worthless if you can’t keep your opponent on his/her side of the screen. One time Ryu even gets an easy empty jump into cr.MK xx EX hado xx FADC ultra, which could have been avoided if you simply swatted him out of the air. This was offline play, so you can’t blame lag. If I was playing vs you, I would probably consider trolling you and picking like Zangief or something and just keep jumping + buffer spd.

  2. (related to above but I thought it deserved its own number) You have an over-reliance on FA as your go-to antiair. Ibuki has far better options. Most notable being b+MP into SJC mixups. Once you master Ibuki’s b+MP and SJC cd, Ibuki’s antiair game becomes incredibly powerful. You get good damage, tons of stun, and a mixup. If you play your cards right, you can most likely stun your opponent after 2 successful mixups after the antiair, or 1 successful mixup and a reset (like a throw). But you never do any of these and you keep doing FA backdash like you need to build ultra for whatever reason. If it was for building U2, then ok, since this Ryu loved to spam fireballs. But you had U1, which is not very useful when you still have lots of life.

  3. Poor okizeme game. I’ll admit you have some decent jab pressure on your opponent’s wakeup, but you basically keep throwing away Ibuki’s okizeme game. Remember that Ibuki is a okizeme monster who can continuously pressure her opponents, knockdown after knockdown until they’re dead. If you want to play a basic pressure game with lights, blockstrings, and frame traps, you can do so with anybody else in the cast. Why pick a character with all of these options and never use them?

Things to note:
-You can **vortex **after a forward throw
-Ibuki has safe jumps and/or **unblockables **after a backthrow/EX neckbreaker

Use these options whenever possible since they are far better than simple jab pressure.

  1. Not shutting down Ryu’s fireball game. You were at the perfect range to react with EX neckbreaker, almost every single game, and almost every single time Ryu threw a fireball. Again, offline play, so you can’t blame lag here. What would you do in online play with lag? What about vs better fireball characters like Sagat? Or Guile?

You seriously do need to utilize EX neckbreaker and whatnot to shut down Ryu’s fireball game. It’s an important aspect of this matchup, and every matchup consisting of a projectile character. Once he sees that your reactions are decent enough to punish fireballs, and once he notices that you get an **unblockable **setup afterward, I’m pretty sure he’ll think twice before chucking plasma simply just to fill screen; Ryu’s fireball is supposed to be used as a footsie, but you never really gave him a reason not to spam it.

Minor Cons:

  1. Still not knowing the spacing for full TC4 and 3hit TC4.
  2. Not knowing the spacing to punish Ryu’s cr.HK on block (with your own cr.HK).
  3. Not punishing dp xx FADC with U1. Seriously, what’s the point of picking it then? Just so you can rely on a gimmick when you’re losing? It won’t exactly foster good habits, and there’s nothing to be learned from using it. Save it for randoming out serious matches instead. This is just casuals.
  4. Consider picking U2 instead so you can (or at least have the option to) shut down your opponent’s projectile game when you don’t have meter for EX neckbreaker. If anything else, pick U2 so you can punish Ryu’s cr.HK on block (else he’ll most likely just spam it freely at max range, kind of like Akumas) and so you can SJC U2. You love putting your opponent in the corner, you love jab pressure, and you hate vortexing, so it all works out, right?

Side note:
You say you studied your matches, but how much? The part 1 video might have been only 11 minutes long, but I’m positive I spent at least twice that with lots of rewinding, and I’ve spent even more time (definitely over an hour; yeah I take this shit seriously lol) re-analyzing your play to write this post. I’m not trying to insult you or anything, I’m just trying to figure out how much you’re analyzing your gameplay or are you just completely stuck?

I studied (or at least tried to study) your every move, as well as your opponent’s. Why you did it, what else you could have done, what the situation was like, if it was the best course of action, etc. For example, in part 1, the first time you got hit was 0:17, due to a fireball (you did FA dash up and then tried to slide it looked like). I rewinded this at least 3-5 times. The next part I rewinded a bunch of times was when you blocked a fireball at 0:26. Why did you block? Couldn’t you have simply slided or neutral jumped or something? Maybe Ryu could have recovered in time to whiff punish a slide? Then the next 20-30 seconds or so is you trying to push Ryu to the corner and with him responding back with basic cr.MK option selects. Do you see how analytical I’m being with your gameplay? I hope you’re doing the same: questioning everything that happens, what worked, what didn’t work, and what you could have done differently. Actually now that I realize it (and rewatching round 1 of part 1, yet again) I noticed you didn’t really do much in terms of setups.
0:33 - you hit him with a neutral jump kunai and dash in/out for a reversal bait
0:45 - you get a free cr.LP into combo because Ryu was too eager to jump around
0:47 - you sucessfully vortex (quite a rare occurence that you ever actually vortex) into combo
0:56 - you get a good read (I wanna say it’s a good read and not just a piece of autopilot luck) and catch Ryu with cr.HK
0:58 - you successfully bait a dp and punish with a (low damage) combo
1:04 - you get a free back throw because again Ryu is careless with his jumping
1:13 - you hit him with a slide; good read on your part I believe
1:24 - you luckily get him with a reversal ex kazegiri, followed by ex kunai chip to take the round. Actually now that I realize it, what you should have done in this case (if you were so eager to reversal) was FADC your EX kazegiri to make it safe. If it hits, great, juggle with raida to end the round, if not, then no problem, you’re still safe. Instead of taking a gamble and hoping he didn’t block or bait it out.

(note: I also color coded it. Red being due to Ryu fucking up. Blue being due to you doing a successful setup. Orange being due to luck or also Ryu fucking up)

Do you notice anything here? More than half the time you get damage simply because Ryu fucked up. You didn’t necessarily set yourself up for anything. There was nothing in depth like you shutting down his fireball game so he has to resort to cr.MK and then you switch it up by whiff punishing or countering his poke with f+LK. There was nothing like you doing obvious FA spam (as a footsie) to force Ryu to be either watch his cr.MK usage, or be more aggressive with it (such as cr.MK xx tatsu/dp/EX), or better yet forcing him to use sps more so that it paves the way for Ibuki’s cr.MP usage. Game 3 starting at 4:45 is a good example of 2 rounds of Ryu completely controlling the pace of the match, without any regard of what your goals are. He gets free jumpins, free non-safejumps, free throws, free empty jumps into cr.MK, etc.

I hope you’re being this analytical as I am. Otherwise you’ll simply be memorizing things and you’ll only be good at autopiloting. I hope this helped; maybe I said too much.

1747

That first video just proved how much you were auto piloting but their are two things that bother me. Mingo mentioned one of em, and that’s focus attacking. Dude, stuff like that should only be used once in a blue moon to catch people off guard. You can’t do it as soon as you see someone jump in. Especially when that someone has a Dragon Punch and a Ultra they can cancel into after. You’re just asking to die. Ibuki doesn’t have the health to back up that risk all the time lol.

I also noticed you always use Ultra 1. I personally think (aside from certain scenarios) Ultra 1 is the scrub killer. Yeah it might be cool to catch someone that’s always mashing and what not, but dude, you’re not gonna catch someone like XSK with it. You shouldn’t be using Ultra 1 against Ryu anyways. It personally looked like he was sandbagging you to be honest, but w/e.

Actually there’s more than two things lol. You give up on the vortex so easily. A lot of times you just stand there and try and throw or do more random jabs. You don’t even go for low hits lol. ONE TIME you actually baited a grab of his, which was dope, in which you tried to grab and he teched lmao. You should have done like CR. MP -> Neck Breaker. Or if you were a thug and were repping the right Ultra, you could have gone ST. MK -> Ultra 2 and then proceed to dropping your sack on his forehead for being so siiiiick.

I still also can’t believe you fell for that full screen standing lk fireball bait lol >_>

1748

I wanna take back what I said. It didn’t seem like he was using FA as an antiair (releasing it) more than it seemed like he simply wanted to build ultra asap, hence the FA and instant backdash (never releasing the FA). But I still question if this was the best course of action since he picked U1 and there was little reason to get ultra asap.

1749

From Beat By Contest:

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1750

guys im looking to rep with ibuki all the way at evo japan.
also on another note i just remembered that im yet to post a single vid of me as ibuki lol. ill upload a couple of matches soon.

1751

@Mingo

First of all XsK Samurai is an amazing Ryu player and yes he was playing Ryu differently than how he should in the Ibuki matchup. He is clearly testing me with different jump in trajectories and changing spacing in different scenarios.

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There is more footage but a lot of it is hidden in the raw streams. Anyway, my point is that he is a strong player and I don’t like the way you were making assumptions about him.

@Mingo’s major cons

1.) Yep my AA game is bad, I have to work on it more.
2.) Yeah I shouldn’t have AA FA as much or at all, just a habit I got when I didn’t anticipate to AA with chun li since her backdash is so good.
3.) To be honest I don’t understand this. I wanted to point out my mentality during the match and show actual opportunities where vortex does arrive from my write up above. To myself in two rounds I only had 8 opportunities to vortex, 6 of which I went for it. He blocked most of my attempts, I went for different types of setups too. That is why I work hard on my blockstring pressure because that’s what you’re left with if someone knows how to block it. I understand that she has a strong vortex game as you described above but how do you think I should incorporate it? I know there’s threads about the vortex but is there anything specific you want to enlighten me about finding more opportunities?
4.) I don’t blame anything with lag, I don’t know where you got that idea. I posted earlier that I recorded live so people can see what I am playing during the actual online match. In my earlier post I put that I dropped links and that was just me messing up, it was an error of my part to put it next to my lag comment. My execution isn’t the best and yes I need to work on it but I am not trying to blame lag on my poor play to make myself look better.

Anyways, back to the point. I do have to react to his fireballs more but it requires pretty early anticipation to pull off. I just rely on FA dashes, slide, or if I get a good read on him. But to me he was hard to read. I hate buffering it because if you end up moving forward and if you press any button it will lead to any of her commands. A good example of who I like to buffer with is Chun Li because it’s also an OS block and if he comes close, I can always press c. MP which wouldn’t buffer into anything. In some later matches I went for an ex neckbreaker and to make it work you have to do it extremely early, in which he did a standing LK so he blocked and I got punished.

But you’re right I have to do it more anyway.

@Mingo’s minor cons
1.) Yeah I haven’t practiced it yet, I just posted my other video where I find out about that problem then these casuals happened soon after that.
2.) This is a footsies issue, I think it’s more complicated than that but yeah I guess this is a problem.
3.) Yeah I do pick U1 to punish srk FADC but I put other things to learn in higher priority than have this setup at the moment. I have to do it.
4.) I prefer U1, and no I don’t hate vortexing. I don’t know where you got the idea where I hate vortexing.

Yeah the lack of AA stopped the development of a ground game to be shown in these videos otherwise what you said would have occurred.

@littlesushi

Haha I messed up on the grab punish, I just didn’t think he would do a stand tech so it caught me off guard. I wasn’t baiting a grab, I was trying to bait a trip or c. forward but he totally confused me.

As for U1, I like it a lot because it is another way for ibuki to stop meaty pressure. At least it gives her a huge punish for it rather than ex kazekiri. Also punishing srk fadc, but yeah I haven’t kept it in my mindset yet since I recently picked up ibuki. But yeah there’s always more to learn!

Thanks you guys, again I appreciate it! I can’t believe you guys were able to watch the first part since it’s so long haha. Just like this post.

1752

Yes I know he’s a good player; that’s not what I’m debating. How do you think he “should” have played? Maybe he’s testing your antiair ability as you say, but imo I think he’s just simply jump happy (I saw that XsK vs AndyOCR match and Andy just failed at keeping him grounded, even when he was looking for the jumpin). Changing spacing in different scenarios isn’t really matchup specific. More of a general footsies aspect.

  1. You did a great job detailing your mentality throughout the match above. Sorry for thinking you weren’t being analytical enough; you really are thinking while playing, and that’s good.

If you were given safe jump opportunities, wouldn’t you go for it? Vortex, whether your opponent blocks correctly or not, is basically a safe jump. When you vortex, your opponent (Ryu) has no good options besides blocking. Besides vortex, Ibuki has many other okizeme tools. She has a safe jump after a back throw. At the very least, you should do command dash mixup to pressure (or at least give the illusion of pressuring) or command dash into j.LK/j.MK, at the range and timing of making reversal dp get stuffed or whiffed. If he tries an autocorrect, well that’s just the price of doing business as they say. If you suspect a dp, you can superjump instead or mix up your jump timing with/without a kunai (eg: backthrow , dash , walk forward a few frames , jump kunai; this won’t exactly give you enough blockstun to followup the kunai but you get the idea). This kind of mixed up timing will make it difficult for him to decide whether to try autocorrect dp or not, seeing as how if he guesses wrong he’s going to eat a big punish + vortex followup.

There is almost never a good reason to do jump back kunai. It throws away Ibuki’s pressure game and even if you were baiting something, a measly kunai hit is not going to convince them to stop reversaling. If you ever do jump back kunai, it’s usually in desperate need to gtfo asap, like vs a grappler. Or to chip your opponent to death (though usually with EX kunai).

Just because he is blocking your mixups doesn’t mean you should stop doing them and resort to basic blockstring pressure. I dunno if this is news lol but you can still do blockstrings even if your vortex gets blocked. Just think of vortex as safe jumps, with a good chance of landing you a free combo.

Going back to Ibuki’s okizeme game, I would suggest being more aggressive when you get your knockdowns. Maybe it’s just me that I’m usually never worried about reversals, but stuff like kazegiri knockdown I always go for command dash mixups. cl.st.HK antiair I always always try to go for SJC cd mixups (cl.st.HK xx SJC cd , cr.HP xx whatever). Even cl.st.HK into raida gives you a safe jump opportunity. And after a forward throw I almost always vortex. It’s just like, why not?

Besides okizeme, Ibuki does good reset mixups (TC6 xx SJC cd) and SJC cd mixups off of b+MP, and other resets. These are two resets I really want to emphasize because they usually do good damage, good stun, sets you up for yet another mixup opportunity, gives your opponent yet another thing to memorize about the matchup, etc. If your opponent wants to take the risk and reversal, fine. Just remember that if you successfully read your opponent (ie: bait) then that means 300-400+ dmg (and big stun) plus another mixup.

Actually, at 0:58 you give your opponent credit and say he was doing reversal jab dp to “punish your bad habits.” Had you anticipated and reacted quick enough, you could have U1 punished and taken the round. Ryu’s lp.srk is -17, on block. He whiffed the dp so you had much more time to punish. If you’re baiting something, you should be ready with the punish.

Lastly about blockstrings: the usual cr.LP , tick throw or cr.LP , st.MK frame trap, Ibuki has tons of other frame traps and setups listed here http://shoryuken.com/f336/ibuki-blockstrings-mixups-244082/
Try adding some of these to your blockstring game, instead of the overused cr.LP/st.MK/throw setup.

Note: Ibuki doesn’t have an unblockable after a back throw. She only has a safe jump after a back throw. I have only discovered unblockables after a neckbreaker and after an ex neckbreaker. She most likely has an unblockable after a tsumuji, but considering how the spacing varies all the time, I don’t think it’ll be practical. If there are others to be found, nobody has found them yet.

I still think you simply need to work on 3 things for your Ibuki (and ground game) to drastically improve:

  1. antiair - to stop jump spam
  2. EX neckbreaker - to stop fireball spam
  3. counter poke - to stop cr.MK spam

Everything else is sort of minor, with the exception of a strong pressure game, but for now your pressure game is decent enough as long as you take the opportunities given to you.

Oh yeah and that thing you said about FA dash up and combo to punish fireball recovery, your math is certainly correct. But spacing shouldn’t be an issue (st.LP = far.st.LP = both 3f startup). It was more likely that you didn’t FA dash fast enough. It looked like Ryu was already half done recovering when you dashed and there was some delay between dash and st.LP. Actually you had U1 at the time, so FA dashup U1 would have had a better chance than st.LP, as well as a more damaging punish.

1753

@Mingo

Yeah my ground pressure needs more work. I don’t really like command dash involved in her okizemi game but I’ll dabble into it. I only have a few of those setups in my toolset. If you watch carefully in the matches, I actually a lot of different frame traps but I didn’t list them all and you pointed out the ones that I did comment on. Also I didn’t completely stopped my mixups, I just didn’t do a kunai vortex, I still did mixup after. I like to do a variety of different types of setups after a knockdown be it ground pressure or kunai vortex. But yeah, you’re right I have to be more aggressive and take more risks (especially do more damaging combos).

There is a matchup style of play which Ryus have a standard in vs ibuki but that is a whole different discussion in itself.

As for the punishment on the lp SRK, yeah I should have did U1 but i didn’t want to mess up with the inputs since it forces ibuki to move backward (if I dashed to buffer the input, which I normally do, it would have lost me 18 frames and i can’t punish it anymore). If i just had it thought out beforehand I would have probably gotten the punish. Another thing to work on!

Thanks for taking the time to read the post.

@Izuna

Haha sorry dude I haven’t been on my consoles in awhile, last time I played ssf4 was during the recorded casuals with my friend. I’ll be sure to add you though!

1754

Huh? @ the Guile statement.

1755

Can’t you stay close and slide under booms? Then pressure him with swipe kicks and shit? Why would you give Guile space anyways? Knock him down once and stay on his ass.

1756

This.

I dunno, try SJ kunai at the start of the round.

"if she moves forward, Guile can react to it."
React with what? And what is Guile’s answer to slide?

If you can’t reaction slide under (or better yet, TK kunai over) booms, you’re either too far or your reactions are too slow.

Why are you at full screen anyways? What options do you have at full screen that ever warrants you staying at full screen? What pokes of Guile’s are giving you trouble?

You’re just giving Guile too much credit imo.

1757

Yeeeeeeeeeeah, I don’t know why you’re afraid of Guile. Usually when I see a Guile, I think free win. I just hold forward till he dies.

1758

i kinda agree with izuna on guile being a little difficult atleast b4 a knock down because for me i have a problem trying to chase guile down because he walks away backwards so much faster then u do foward and hes got that stupid normal that makes him move even further back i think its st. mk or something same with dee jay and chun they walk backwards really fast throw slow projectile and walk up alongside it which it is stupid but for guile his recovery is so fast u cant even punish it unless u can correctly guess when hes gonna sonic boom and the only way i can beat him is getting a knock down and vortex him all match or hes gonna keep running back spamming and turtling unless i get a ex neckbreaker or trap him in the corner and bait a flash kick

1759

I still think the Guile matchup is well in our favor. It’s just that Daigo is fucking beast as hell.

Take a look at the corner pressure at these two points:
1:01
4:16

Like legit, 14 seconds of straight up Ibuki pressure, frame traps, overheads, etc. and Daigo manages to block all that. Like lol.

And then in the first game, first round, Guile is in the corner for more than half the round and still takes the round with a decent life lead, and with full meter. How many Guiles do you know can block/turtle/play keepaway that well?

I don’t think the problem was getting in; it looked more like the problem was just simply trying to break that turtly shell and not get read like a book by The Beast.

Yes slide is a bad idea (punishable) when Guile has full super. But if he has super and you’re still trying to get in on him, then something is wrong.

I still don’t think slide = uber punishable = worthless. I’ve only seen Guile’s super straight up punish it. The only other way would be to whiff punish or otherwise really really space yourself well so that slide whiffs or it is more punishable on block (ie: walk into into and block). This is not very easy to do. In the first round, Freeda does at least 8 slides, and gets away with all of them except 1 (whiff punished by Guile’s cr.HK no less, but to give Daigo credit it looked like Daigo was really trying to bait slide with 2 purposely whiffed cr.LK’s after a blocked sonic boom + walk back).

1760

i feel every turtle/run away character has an advantage over ibuki