The SFV Lounge: SRK is ALIVE. AE Hype is BACK! DISCORD going the way of DISCO

[Akhos]

LordWilliam1234 can you link me your frame data

SFV Frame Data [2.070] (WIP)

Outdated, incomplete and probably won’t be worked on until frame trapped gets fixed which I don’t know when that is

Blocking is for mortals. :yawn:

Tell that to Bison

Oh wait you can’t

'Cause he’s dead

'Cause he can’t BLOCK

He actually isn’t. You have zero grasp of the SF canon. Shame.

Bison is a scrub who needs infinite lives turned on to even try and accomplish anything

An infinite cycle of getting his ass handed to him by random people off the street

[Plaid_Unicorn]

EX Scissors

That ex ball thing also gets him in for free

Or you can also just make sure to use ex dr in times that aren’t autopilot

EX.Scissors forces a weak scenario on block

EX.ball can be used I guess, I see it best when you’re already in a blockstring but how does he get that initial closerange to force the blockstring? You’ve also got anti-fireball tools, easy to just outmaneuver in comparison.

EX.DR is easily reactable even when used sporadically, his hurtbox is ridiculously wide. b.hk was hitting him from behind me, that’s insane. I completely understand nerfing it but those AAs I got seemed fucked.

I hated EX.DR, I just don’t think Bison all that great with how he’s gonna work at the minute. Slow walkspeed, and he’s relying on big fierce buttons that you can just walk outside the range of and whiff punish, and dashing is a complete gimmick. Outside of forcing dictation of space with scissors ala SFIV, idk how he’s meant to close the gap. Maybe that’s a good thing, but damn his walkspeed just doesn’t feel right if that’s the case.

Cr.hp buffs and the scissor buffs should hopefully create a less unga playstyle.

… you right… buff Bison

[MochaLatte]

EX Scissors

That ex ball thing also gets him in for free

Or you can also just make sure to use ex dr in times that aren’t autopilot

EX.Scissors forces a weak scenario on block

EX.ball can be used I guess, I see it best when you’re already in a blockstring but how does he get that initial closerange to force the blockstring? You’ve also got anti-fireball tools, easy to just outmaneuver in comparison.

EX.DR is easily reactable even when used sporadically, his hurtbox is ridiculously wide. b.hk was hitting him from behind me, that’s insane. I completely understand nerfing it but those AAs I got seemed fucked.

I hated EX.DR, I just don’t think Bison all that great with how he’s gonna work at the minute. Slow walkspeed, and he’s relying on big fierce buttons that you can just walk outside the range of and whiff punish, and dashing is a complete gimmick. Outside of forcing dictation of space with scissors ala SFIV, idk how he’s meant to close the gap. Maybe that’s a good thing, but damn his walkspeed just doesn’t feel right if that’s the case.

Cr.hp buffs and the scissor buffs should hopefully create a less unga playstyle.

If bison had good walkspeed with his normals, he’d be way overpowered.

Even if ex scissors only leaves you at + 1 on block, it’s still gets you in at frame advantage. It’s not always about landing a hit, it’s also about pushing your opponent to the corner. And a move that blisteringly fast being + on block is nuts. And being cornered by bison sucks, his corner control game is fucking crazy.

The slow walkspeed is there to compensate for how powerful his normals and specials are. Get back to me when you play a bison who is just content to slowly and methodically walk you into the corner without even having to use psycho axe once

EX devil’s reverse is just less braindead now, it doesn’t kill the character.

[TrenchCoatJones]

Anyone else experiencing random lag spikes?

[TWINBLADES]

1 Hit confirms present the type of barrier that only the elite of the elite can ever dream of surpassing

If you think that training and hard work can help you to overcome the obstacle that is 1 hit confirms, then you’re sadly mistaken. Your puny genetics made your brain to muscle communication too sluggish to get around with the dummy on random block in training mode. No amount of repetition or 5 hour energies will save your ass. These types of reactions can only be attained with superior twitch reaction genetics, Momochi and CMPunk earned these by virtue of their birth rite. Only an idiot would believe the outlandish assumption that they spent countless hours in training mode in order to consistently confirm off of one hit

Perhaps 1 hit confirms should be removed from the game since I can’t do them, it’s not fair. It’s also not fair that some players are better at whiff punishing than me, their dad’s sperm cells were too strong and my dad’s were too feeble to breed the reaction gawd I wish I could be. Reactions need to be removed from the game, period.

I agree

[Frost]

If bison had good walkspeed with his normals, he’d be way overpowered.

Even if ex scissors only leaves you at + 1 on block, it’s still gets you in at frame advantage. It’s not always about landing a hit, it’s also about pushing your opponent to the corner. And a move that blisteringly fast being + on block is nuts. And being cornered by bison sucks, his corner control game is fucking crazy.

The slow walkspeed is there to compensate for how powerful his normals and specials are. Get back to me when you play a bison who is just content to slowly and methodically walk you into the corner without even having to use psycho axe once

EX devil’s reverse is just less braindead now, it doesn’t kill the character.

I can get back to you, I beat Problem :s

I think a lot of Bison’s game even at high level was bypassing that weak range where he’s not quite within that fierce distancing and the opponent can walk in/out of that range. Yeah, you have an absolutely huge percentage of Bison players who just completely auto-pilot EX.DR, but even top Bison’s used that move to cover a gap in his neutral. Outside of st.hp/d/f.hp his buttons really aren’t spectacular and don’t do well to cover those range gaps he has without using EX moves to bypass.

I think EX.scissors is still a strong option, and your point about corner carry is actually something I didn’t take into account. And if you take the new scissor changes into account as well a more grounded style into corner oppression could definitely shine through. I still stand by Bison being in a rough spot without that obnoxious DR, just seems flat in the neutral now.

[MochaLatte]

If bison had good walkspeed with his normals, he’d be way overpowered.

Even if ex scissors only leaves you at + 1 on block, it’s still gets you in at frame advantage. It’s not always about landing a hit, it’s also about pushing your opponent to the corner. And a move that blisteringly fast being + on block is nuts. And being cornered by bison sucks, his corner control game is fucking crazy.

The slow walkspeed is there to compensate for how powerful his normals and specials are. Get back to me when you play a bison who is just content to slowly and methodically walk you into the corner without even having to use psycho axe once

EX devil’s reverse is just less braindead now, it doesn’t kill the character.

I can get back to you, I beat Problem :s

I think a lot of Bison’s game even at high level was bypassing that weak range where he’s not quite within that fierce distancing and the opponent can walk in/out of that range. Yeah, you have an absolutely huge percentage of Bison players who just completely auto-pilot EX.DR, but even top Bison’s used that move to cover a gap in his neutral. Outside of st.hp/d/f.hp his buttons really aren’t spectacular and don’t do well to cover those range gaps he has without using EX moves to bypass.

I think EX.scissors is still a strong option, and your point about corner carry is actually something I didn’t take into account. And if you take the new scissor changes into account as well a more grounded style into corner oppression could definitely shine through. I still stand by Bison being in a rough spot without that obnoxious DR, just seems flat in the neutral now.

I’m not arguing that they overnerfed bison in a few ways. The EX DR change was the only thing I could get behind, but knowing capcom they had to go overboard. Can’t just tone one move down a little bit, gotta go all out and nerf his cr.jab anti air along with his st.lk. I guess the question is whether or not his walkspeed/scissors buff can compensate for those, but it’s too early to tell

[HeavensCloud]

If Bison didn’t have slow walkspeed he’d be OP and the best character in the game. It’s still easy for him to get in even with a nerfed Devils reverse, he has so many options the defender has to account for that are safe.
And when he’s in you pretty much have to v-reversal because he’s a frame trap monster.

[Frost]

I’m not arguing that they overnerfed bison in a few ways. The EX DR change was the only thing I could get behind, but knowing capcom they had to go overboard. Can’t just tone one move down a little bit, gotta go all out and nerf his cr.jab anti air along with his st.lk. I guess the question is whether or not his walkspeed/scissors buff can compensate for those, but it’s too early to tell

That’s my concern. Idk if Bison can actually work that way without a proper walkspeed lmao.

Also did Dime say some sus shit earlier about one-hit confirms being unfair? I was in agreement that not having one-hit confirms makes you a worse player, but I didn’t read his OP tbh.

[DevilJin_01]

Still Bipson has come a long way from season 1 where he didn’t have a 3 frame button and was dealing with an entire cast of characters that either beat him in neutral or didn’t let him play once he started blocking them. Even if he hit you his conversions were more linear and he was dealing with more powerful v reversals that put you in safe jumps and led to set play. The way to stop Bipson in season 1 was V Reversal his obvious frame traps and then safe jump him or dash command grab if you were mika. He had one of the worst v skills and very rough AA. Not to mention characters that could just meterless dp him away when he has no auto block beater.

Good to see a character that went from a season that totally worked against the way he played to where he is now. It’s at the expense of other stuff and he probably got toned a bit too much, but at least he’s getting new derp and stronger AA

[MochaLatte]

I’m not arguing that they overnerfed bison in a few ways. The EX DR change was the only thing I could get behind, but knowing capcom they had to go overboard. Can’t just tone one move down a little bit, gotta go all out and nerf his cr.jab anti air along with his st.lk. I guess the question is whether or not his walkspeed/scissors buff can compensate for those, but it’s too early to tell

That’s my concern. Idk if Bison can actually work that way without a proper walkspeed lmao.

Also did Dime say some sus shit earlier about one-hit confirms being unfair? I was in agreement that not having one-hit confirms makes you a worse player, but I didn’t read his OP tbh.

DIme is basically saying that 1 hit confirms should be removed from the game, I know because he said so in the past. He’s now trying the more “socratic” approach to get people to come that conclusion on their own.

Bison can work… Well I think at the least his st.lk nerf was too much. Honestly I’d be content if they just kept his buffs with the only nerf being to his ex dr. That move had to go, same reason why ken’s tatsu shit had to go, likewise for rog’s tap (Okay this one was overnerfed but you get my point). None of those moves are completely dead, it just requires some more conditioning and work in neutral to make those tools effective… In a vacuum at least (disregarding the overnerfing of other tools)

I like that they’re trying to make bison more solid instead of just “hold down, hit up + kk, win neutral”

[Daemos]

It’s at the expense of other stuff and he probably got toned a bit too much, but at least he’s getting new derp and stronger AA

It’s still not C.HP from B1, which is what it should be at this point considering what they took away.

S3.5 will save us all.

[Frost]

I’m not arguing that they overnerfed bison in a few ways. The EX DR change was the only thing I could get behind, but knowing capcom they had to go overboard. Can’t just tone one move down a little bit, gotta go all out and nerf his cr.jab anti air along with his st.lk. I guess the question is whether or not his walkspeed/scissors buff can compensate for those, but it’s too early to tell

That’s my concern. Idk if Bison can actually work that way without a proper walkspeed lmao.

Also did Dime say some sus shit earlier about one-hit confirms being unfair? I was in agreement that not having one-hit confirms makes you a worse player, but I didn’t read his OP tbh.

DIme is basically saying that 1 hit confirms should be removed from the game

Bison can work… Well I think at the least his st.lk nerf was too much. Honestly I’d be content if they just kept his buffs with the only nerf being to his ex dr. That move had to go, same reason why ken’s tatsu shit had to go, likewise for rog’s tap (Okay this one was overnerfed but you get my point). None of those moves are completely dead, it just requires some more conditioning and work in neutral to make those tools effective… In a vacuum at least (disregarding the overnerfing of other tools)

I like that they’re trying to make bison more solid instead of just “hold down, hit up + kk, win neutral”

Lol fuck no 1 hit confirms and neutral are my entire gameplan fuck off Dime

Bruh talking of Ken I’m so sorry about Ken this patch lmao. He got some minor buffs for losing his corner game. He’s been getting dicked hard since S2.

[Akhos]

Dime is basically saying that 1 hit confirms should be removed from the game

No

He just wants more safe cr.mk confirm options so it’s less of a requirement

Like the classic cr.mk xx fireball of old, or Ed’s cr.mk xx flicker

[Frost]

Dime is basically saying that 1 hit confirms should be removed from the game

No

He just wants more safe cr.mk confirm options so it’s less of a requirement

Like the classic cr.mk xx fireball of old, or Ed’s cr.mk xx flicker

That’s the point, that’s why it’s called a confirm

You confirm it because it’s unsafe on hit - CONFIRM the follow-up option. Making a safe option removes the need for confirming and creates lots of characters who have safe chip options.

Ed cr.mk xx flicker isn’t a confirm, you just do it. It’s free red chip. If you do cr.mk xx upper with Ed then yes you confirm it, but flicker is just you doing it cause it’s safe.

[Akhos]

Dime is basically saying that 1 hit confirms should be removed from the game

No

He just wants more safe cr.mk confirm options so it’s less of a requirement

Like the classic cr.mk xx fireball of old, or Ed’s cr.mk xx flicker

That’s the point, that’s why it’s called a confirm

You confirm it because it’s unsafe on hit - CONFIRM the follow-up option

Ed cr.mk xx flicker isn’t a confirm, you just do it. It’s free red chip.

It’s more that as he said that there aren’t a lot of safe low checks that don’t leave you in a bad position on block even if they are safe

Ed’s cr.mk xx flicker is one of the only ones right now since you can space it

So cr.mk one hit confirms are far more important if you want to get gud, whether that be confirming the hit itself or at least confirming them standing

I don’t want them removed at all but in this instance I can at least see his point beyond just “remove them”

I can’t speak for what he said before his most recent posts on the matter because I don’t remember

[MochaLatte]

I’m not arguing that they overnerfed bison in a few ways. The EX DR change was the only thing I could get behind, but knowing capcom they had to go overboard. Can’t just tone one move down a little bit, gotta go all out and nerf his cr.jab anti air along with his st.lk. I guess the question is whether or not his walkspeed/scissors buff can compensate for those, but it’s too early to tell

That’s my concern. Idk if Bison can actually work that way without a proper walkspeed lmao.

Also did Dime say some sus shit earlier about one-hit confirms being unfair? I was in agreement that not having one-hit confirms makes you a worse player, but I didn’t read his OP tbh.

DIme is basically saying that 1 hit confirms should be removed from the game

Bison can work… Well I think at the least his st.lk nerf was too much. Honestly I’d be content if they just kept his buffs with the only nerf being to his ex dr. That move had to go, same reason why ken’s tatsu shit had to go, likewise for rog’s tap (Okay this one was overnerfed but you get my point). None of those moves are completely dead, it just requires some more conditioning and work in neutral to make those tools effective… In a vacuum at least (disregarding the overnerfing of other tools)

I like that they’re trying to make bison more solid instead of just “hold down, hit up + kk, win neutral”

Lol fuck no 1 hit confirms and neutral are my entire gameplan fuck off Dime

Bruh talking of Ken I’m so sorry about Ken this patch lmao. He got some minor buffs for losing his corner game. He’s been getting dicked hard since S2.

I dunno about Ken right now. The walkspeed buff (even if barely any) is still pretty big, and his st.mk tc is better (not as good as in season 1). Also need to take into consideration his counter-pokey game getting buffed with the universal changes to hitboxes and whatnot.

The only thing that sucks about his throw loop removal is that his bad matchups are worse, ironically the matchups he did well in feel better due the buffs. I’m thinking of picking up a cammy to deal with sim/rashid but maybe I can still make ken work for those, Haven’t played in awhile so I’ll probably procrastinate on the alt for awhile to see how ken pans out.

The throw loop removal was kinda bs tho. Compare it to the v triggers out there and some of the setups… At least you had to corner your opponent with a knockdown to earn that shit.

Which also leads back to why I think Bison could still shine, without throw loops, the corner game is going to highly favor characters that escape the corner easily and/or can keep someone there for a long time with relative ease

[Frost]

That’s how it should be though, it makes neutral require some form of technicality and precision, adding layers on top of spacing, counter-poking and whiff punishing add some depth. Ed’s is probably only safe because of the input method, it’d be -4 if it were a motion command at the least.

Cr.mk confirms as I said earlier are really only prevalent on certain characters, majority of characters don’t have them.

I dunno about Ken right now. The walkspeed buff (even if barely any) is still pretty big, and his st.mk tc is better (not as good as in season 1). Also need to take into consideration his counter-pokey game getting buffed with the universal changes to hitboxes and whatnot.

The only thing that sucks about his throw loop removal is that his bad matchups are worse, ironically the matchups he did well in feel better due the buffs. I’m thinking of picking up a cammy to deal with sim/rashid but maybe I can still make ken work for those, Haven’t played in awhile so I’ll probably procrastinate on the alt for awhile to see how ken pans out.

The throw loop removal was kinda bs tho. Compare it to the v triggers out there and some of the setups… At least you had to corner your opponent with a knockdown to earn that shit.

Which also leads back to why I think Bison could still shine, without throw loops, the corner game is going to highly favor characters that escape the corner easily and/or can keep someone there for a long time with relative ease

My issue with the throw nerfs on Ken are that it killed his meaty game post throw, less so about the loss of throw loop. But one can’t exist without the other. Ken isn’t as oppressive in the corner now and that was how most Ken’s chose to play him.

My favourite Ken is Momochi and even he decided to adopt the corner throw loop/pressure game and he’s who I base most of my neutral around.

[MilesRiey]

I’m finally able to do loops with Menat’s VT!!!

…

Now to do it in a real match >_>

[Akhos]

I dunno about Ken right now. The walkspeed buff (even if barely any) is still pretty big, and his st.mk tc is better (not as good as in season 1). Also need to take into consideration his counter-pokey game getting buffed with the universal changes to hitboxes and whatnot.

The only thing that sucks about his throw loop removal is that his bad matchups are worse, ironically the matchups he did well in feel better due the buffs. I’m thinking of picking up a cammy to deal with sim/rashid but maybe I can still make ken work for those, Haven’t played in awhile so I’ll probably procrastinate on the alt for awhile to see how ken pans out.

The throw loop removal was kinda bs tho. Compare it to the v triggers out there and some of the setups… At least you had to corner your opponent with a knockdown to earn that shit.

Which also leads back to why I think Bison could still shine, without throw loops, the corner game is going to highly favor characters that escape the corner easily and/or can keep someone there for a long time with relative ease

Sakura has a corner throw loop (a legit one, not a pseudo one like Ibuki or Cammy) and feels a lot like Ken (at least to me), have you tried her yet? Even has a similar st.lk and st.hk. Cr.mk one-hit confirms too. Fireball is super sucky though, even worse than Ken’s.

That’s how it should be though, it makes neutral require some form of technicality and precision, adding layers on top of spacing, counter-poking and whiff punishing add some depth. Ed’s is probably only safe because of the input method, it’d be -4 if it were a motion command at the least.

Cr.mk confirms as I said earlier are really only prevalent on certain characters, majority of characters don’t have them.

I agree with this

Just pointing out that Dime isn’t saying to remove one-hit confirms

Don’t need him writing 2 pages worth of text on the fact you misquoted him