I had some new realizations on the subject, so I wanted to get it out. I see now, that confining yourself to only orthodox, top tier tools can be limiting to your overall effectiveness IF your strengths lie elswhere.
I wondered why smart, effective players stuck to unorthodox choices like morrigan, or gief, or kim. It’s because the glove fits. They’d rather be at their most effective wielding a lower-tier weapon, than be second-rate with high-tier one.
My frustration at the beginning of this thread was that “only great players can utilize top-tier styles”. I see now that’s not the heart of the matter.
Average or great, top tier or low tier - maximizing your personal effectiveness is what matters most.
Apologies if this is common sense to everyone else =)
^ hit the nail on the head; i cant use most of the top tiers for shit except like chun and blanka
and add ‘ability to read the opponent’ to the above list of necessary traits. that’s what separates the great players from the training mode/video watching warriors
Common sense or not, this whole thread Laicram has created is food for thought for people like me.
I literally just got interested in competitive fighters and specifically CvS2. I haven’t even gotten around to playing it in the arcades yet, only been experimenting on the Dreamcast version just to get some idea. I’ve been watching many videos and even though many of them have flown over my head, I still got some parts. However it did hit me at one point that just because it works for them doesn’t mean its going to work for me.
I mean, heck, I’m not even sure what groove fits me at the moment (I’m looking at N and K) and the few threads about tiers and best teams and “batteries” and “anchors” got me high over my head and of course as a completely new player I am still going to try and mimic some of what I read but this thread really does reminds one that nothing is better then you and some other guy duking it out at the arcades and just sharpening everything in that process.
This is why i started to like cvs2 so much…being an old time marvel head where you can only choose 4 maybe 6 characters at most(sans assists) in order to win. In cvs2 almost every character if not all characters have something about them that you can use to your advantage to make them work in your favor. Basically it comes down to who you like your style and what wins for you.
As for the new player don’t worry about things being over your head some ppl have been playing for years and still don’t know shit so its not that big of a deal as you get more involved in the game you’ll learn.
Limited player base really does affect your ability to make a smooth transition from an average player to a great player. I really enjoy CVS2, despite the hate that it gets.
For me–outside of monthlies (or bi-monthlies in some cases) there really isn’t a venue to easily access really good players to practice and learn consistently. I think part of that has to do with people “giving up” on CVS2, and also everyone is pretty far away from each other–at least in MD/VA area. Despite that I do try and learn what I can, since I still enjoy the game and try to play it as “competitively sound” as possible–considered that I don’t take it as serious as I used to.
When it all comes down to it, experience is the best way to go you can watch all the vids you want but if you don’t really understand the intent of strategies being used in a match it really doesn’t matter. Respect is a good and a bad thing I think…but it’s so scary to take that risk especially against people you feel/know are better than you. Sometimes I tap into that and I don’t give as much levity to an opponent than I would before and it frees me up a bit and works out for the better. You just have to know when to turn the switch off or on, again that comes from…experience.
I think my attitude’s changed also from when I first started playing competitively. It wasn’t as fun as it is now. When I do play against someone thats better than me now–I just try to play the best I can and learn from and have FUN. I still get nervous against certain people but (Combofiend) he pretty much was like, "Why?"On top of it, it was fucking casuals >_> so that made it even more ridiculous for me to be nervous. He had a good point–just play, learn and try to get as much access to good players as you can. Later in the day I played better because of it.
About the glove fitting–that’s so true. If I could play Vega the way I play the other characters I seem to mesh with, I’d be that much better…on paper at least.
For me, the best quality in top players in their ability to adapt to whatever situation they come through, being able to figure things out on the fly, being able to change their strategy to confuse the opponent, etc.
That’s something I don’t have and the #1 reason for my losses.
I believe that the separation between average and great comes down to what you are capable of doing. Anyone can practice and watch videos then copy and emulate top players, but it’s what you do afterwards that will truly separate you from the average to the great. To psychologically learn tactics that pros don’t show in videos or things that beginners don’t catch on and add it on to their strategy such as jump in whiff grabs to jump in fake out the opponents parry/jd into a down+forward super is when you start on the path to becoming great. Just being able to do all these combos you see on videos doesn’t make you better. LANDING the combo consistently starts you on the path to becoming great. Knowing the range of characters best normal attacks and knowing how to use them starts you on the path to becoming great. Learning how NOT to jump, roll and run to improve your ground game starts you on the path to becoming great. There are countless ways to separate ones self to becoming great, it’s just how you get there that counts.
Understanding your ground game lets you use the above more effectively… if you can do the above more successfully chances are your ground game is getting better.
Your statement should actually have been “limit yourself by playing without jump roll and run so that you can focus on improving your ground game”
The way you said it kind of implies you shouldn’t do the above. When saying to someone “don’t jump” it’s so that for a while they stop thinking about jumping, it doesn’t mean that jumping is inherently bad. It’s easier to say “don’t jump” then to say “learn your ground game”…
Its been said Tons of times already, but to me, now the most important things are:
Execution,
Reaction,
being comfortable with YOUR character.
I dont even consider myself average to be honest. C3 before last was my FIRST Tourney. EVER. I always played competitively at my local arcade. and there are actually top players that go on a regualar basis. but its like, playing them is one form of practice, but i have NO technical knowledge. I feel like swiss cheese. its a sheet that covers area, but with massive holes. i win sometimes. but going to C3, Nokato said nobody wanted to play him, so i did.(in a casual before the tourney started) and to be honest, after getting pwn3d i felt like i didnt even have any business being there. @ the time i didnt kno about havoc,or Bmore, or rugal, or any of them. i was just passionate about the game. but then i played rugal, (not knowing who he was), and it was pretty much a 2-d rendition of custers last stand. I barely beat his first character before losing. but after that…i felt enlightened,and i knew that losing on that stage was the experience i needed, or else i would ALWAYS be a scrub. and then i joined the forums, and now here i am. sorry to be ranting, but i just feel like im @ the point where i want to go back and redo my entire foundation.(for christ’s sake i tried to hit low w/ kens cr.lp, that hits mid!mid!) but anyway, people hate on me and call me a scrub alot because…well because i dont have the knowledge i need and im hoping to get somewhere with nothing almost. i know the motions, combos and buttons, but i dont know the mentality. and thats something that you just cant get with videos and frame data, im not even READY for that yet. the difference between great and average to me is adaptability,midframe,consistency, and foundation. and thats what im working on. so i can be DECENT and maybe then ill be able to think about being one of the top one day. P.S. pocket change in waldorf MD has CvS2 4 25cents. (I WILL be at the next C3 tho!XD)
delete this post if you want, i just wanted to share my thoughts. has anyone else gone through this phase? just curious.
to Nokato: (since i f*cked up the quote box somehow -_-’)
But, see, you learned the right way, you may not be the best, but you’re waaay better than me, so that means i can learn something from you, and everybody else who loves that game and any other fighter for that matter. I’ll come find you when i wanna pick up hokuto no ken,lol. OH wait, you kno Joe-kun, he’s my new mentor, so hopefully that will help.
and to Havoc:
Nah, u only saw me once, ur actually the one who let me use ur stick to play nokato,
but yeah, i’ll keep playing until forever, and CVS2, Marvel and alpha 3 are really the only games i play. aside from the being reasonably ok @ like vampire savior and garou,
just remember the name,guys and when they call me for my turn, u can be like oh, THAT guy.
Most of the things mentioned aren’t things that separate OK players from great ones…lots of shitty players are able to combo, punish whiffs, reversal SRK, etc. What makes the champs good is patience, stayin true to themselves, and experience winning (not just any plain ol’ experience). Once you know how to win, you don’t lose it. Oh, and knowing how to get out of shitty situations…cause most of the time, against good players, bad stuff will happen…and if you’re weak minded, you’ll most likely break down and die, or just never dig yourself out of your hole.
Its all about mentality. If you cant beat a good player, at least fight until the end. people that give up because someone is way better than them will never be great players, cuz theyll never have what it takes to see it through.
