If minimum effort is required, why shouldn’t we try to help a group of people feel accepted?
I suppose it comes down to what people want from events like Evo. Some people seem to value Evo as purely a competition, whereas I see it as a showcase for the community, and a potentially valuable tool for making the community stronger. Certainly the competitive aspect is important, but without a strong community the competition stagnates and is largely irrelevant.
Girl here.
I participated last year and I plan on participating again: all female, mixed… whatever.
I can understand how some females do feel uncomfortable playing around other guys. I’m 30 and I’ve been playing SF since SF2. For me, it was the shit talking. I didn’t like it but got used to it then,I got over it.
I like the game and I’m going to keep playing, plain and simple. If a female is serious about playing and competing then it shouldn’t matter
But then again some females are sensitive and shy and in that respect if an all female tourny will get them out of their caves and into a tournament then why not.
I personally don’t think that it should replace another tourny though cause sad to say, it’ll probably be a small turn out.
Yah, a lot of female gamers are scrubs, or at least not really that ‘amazing’ at games(again…not all of them). The tournament can help them improve…
For me, after I played in 1-2 tournaments the nervousness went down a lot. An all girls tournament might help their nervousness go down, and then maybe they’ll have more courage to play the guys without worrying.
It’s just like a practice round against other people, who you aren’t used to playing…but again, who won’t completely demolish you in the tournament.
Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but there are women players (I’m thinking about chess, again) who have thrown their support behind women’s events.
You don’t seem to see why women should need a pat on the back from men to participate in a competitive sport. Fair enough. But the organizers of women’s chess events in Europe are themselves top-level women players and don’t see why they need to prove their superiority in opposition to men to win honors and inspire the next generation of women players.
In the interest of full disclosure, I also feel that there is a different kind of feminist sensibility that motivates women’s chess events (ostensibly to motivate the younger generation to win honors) that is different from the old feminism that tried to say, “Women are just as good as men,” or “Women are better than men,” but instead says, “Men don’t matter.”
Even if that strikes you as distasteful, nevertheless, the notion that the existence of women players who get into EVO top 8 on their own merits eliminates the need for a women’s side-tourney is belied by at least one other thing you’re forgetting–CASH PRIZES. People might be dismissive of you if you “only” managed to get first place in the women’s tournament, but when you tell them that, hey, you won $1000 in cash prizes, what are they going to say to that? Tell them your airfare has been paid for while they’re left having to switch-off drivers in a rented van to get back home; they’ll shut up then.
I could care less either way, If the girls want this, I am in full support, if they feel it is demeaning them I’m all for getting rid of it, Lets ask the ladies first, because really thats all that matters here. hopefully inkblot will get lots of feedback from the female community to see if this is viable.
Only girls I’ve seen pan this idea are like the 3 girls with active accounts on srk. I’m sure there are WAAYYY more girls out there who play fighting games.
Yeah we have the significant benefit of living here which makes it a whole lot easier. I think St. Louis is a bad example for your anology though cause St. Louis sucks and there wouldn’t be a whole lot else to do (lol, i kid i kid, but you have to admit that vegas is pretty amazing in the eyes of most out of towners). In regards to how “serious” they are, I like sjv’s example of being semi-competitive. We play for fun and hope/do get better the more we play. We even held tourney’s at their house for their friends and mine; double eilm, entry fees and everything (lol we’d never invite ruin though cause he’d rape us all free and we don’t need to give him $20 to know he’s way better than us, lol). They attended evo last year but didn’t enter any games, which seem likes it’ll change this year thanks to the inclusion of an all-girl sf4 tourney
I don’t think it’s like that, more like anyone can enter but only those who prove themself during the competition with access to the full pool of players deserve the recognition.
Last time I checked the existing tournaments are still open to females.
I also don’t quite understand why losing to another female in front of a couple of thousand people is any better then losing to a male in front of a couple of thousand people.
Maybe I’m making a mistake by seeing people as people rather then associated traits of genders.
So we’re gonna have to have a girl tournament every year for chicks who’re just too scared to compete with guys? What happens if they never want to compete with guys?
I’ll throw in my 2 cents, I guess.
I’m mixed on the whole female only tournament. I think more details need to emerge as well as understanding who is entering before I make any real judgments on it. Getting more females into the community I think is a good thing, if only for the sheer fact that it gets more people into the community period. I’m not sure that this is the way to do it, though it could be.
As others said… it just needs to be handled correctly. I await the details.
Background on myself, if anyone cares:
I’m a girl and I run the rhythm game division of the PMS Clan.
I played DOA4 during the time of CGS. I started playing a little bit before the actual CGS was announced, because at the first event (which was an invitational) I saw a bunch of girls playing DOA4 and I thought “gee I’m pretty sure I can do that too”. From there I entered the community. I practiced somewhat and I did learn a lot of the frame data and how to punish but I never really got good, just from sheer lack of time to practice execution. When I did start posting at the website, I was met with hostility from a few people simply because of the reputation OTHER females left in their wake. That’s okay, I sucked it up and eventually most of the people at least respected me as a person and some thought I had potential as a player. But the experience wasn’t really that pleasant.
I’ve lurked around SRK for years, and despite the fact that I have pretty thick skin, I don’t post here much. I still love fighting games (though I am TERRIBLE at them now) but I don’t really play them because I know the hill that there is to climb to actually be good enough to be respected. I also find this community to be intimidating, and this is coming from someone who works in a profession that is male dominated and still plays alot of other male-dominated games. It really isn’t the male-ness that’s intimidating but the general attitude here. So while I still think fondly of the DOA community, I left for greener pastures. Despite the fact that rhythm games aren’t as competitive I found the community to be a lot more pleasing. Plus I was naturally good at the games, which helped. 
I’ll end this post here and avoid making my wall of text too big. I wanted to go to evo this year just to spectate but we’ll see if that works out for me this year timing-wise. I was at Devastation last year (my bf won the GH tournament there) as well as the Gamestop tournament finals; I love watching fighting games be played even if I don’t play them much myself anymore.
Also HI GT1T ^____________^
The automatic implication of singling out the females for a separate tourney while there’s already a completely open tourney in the same game is that it’s going to be a scrubbier tourney. There’s no logical way around that. It’s not a separate event. It’s during Evo (which is supposed to be an open event), while the exact same game is being played by everybody for the actual title. A girl, in this thread, basically just said that girls would be more likely to play against girls because they think they have a better chance to win. “It’ll be easier for them to beat other girls,” she says. That’s a lot different from just a west coast championship. How many times have you gone to a tournament and seen a regional tournament and then an everybody tournament in the same game? That would seem a little ridiculous, wouldn’t it?
Okay, but…if she can put that kind of work in (which is a lot of work, even if it’s not as much as you feel like you could be doing), then why would somebody like that need a side tournament with presumably lighter competition for motivation? And, more importantly, how would playing in that make her want to keep putting in work to compete on the highest level? That’s my contention–There’s no point in pandering if it doesn’t lead them to the main stage during primetime.
that’s the thing. What this tournament is saying is, it doesn’t matter that so many of the world’s best players are here. I know I can’t hang with them, so I’m gonna sit over here in the corner with Becky and Jill. Which, at the core, is fine. People play for different reasons and with different motivation. But I don’t see any reason to be catering to people who won’t otherwise be motivated to compete. Why? to give the illusion of a larger female demographic?
I’m not seeing anything people are describing that is specific to women. Intimidation? Scared to enter? Not motivated enough? Hell, that sounds like me 12 months ago. I’ve been playing fighting games since 1992 and haven’t been good at them in all that time. I went to my first major tournament last year (Final Round) and didn’t enter anything. I just wanted to see how much better everybody was than me. It was worse than I thought. I discovered games I thought I was good at, I was at best decent at, and games I thought I was decent at I sucked at. Even so, I enjoyed myself because I love the games, and I’m working now becasue I want to narrow that gap. I want to get better, compete, and win. So, what’s the difference?
It’s poorly phrased. It should have been said that Evo is to play to see who’s the best. What do you find out at the end of the FF tournament? Probably not who’s the best.
Keep the tournament as is. If the females want an all female tournament, let a couple of them who feel motivated run with it, and let them host it as a side tournament.
No need for further segregation, at the end of the day the only thing that really, really matters is how good you are in a fighting game. And don’t give me that shy crap either. If you’re passionate enough to consider playing in a tournament for the love of a fighting game, then you put your game face on and give it your best.
Someone mentioned Women’s chess -> I counter with poker: Check out high stakes poker games: it’s mixed, male and female. Again, the only thing that really matters is how good you are.
Naomi, reading your posts gives me a headache. I find them very annoying. Therefore I think you will fit in fine with the rest of trash-talking, hyping male crowd of SRK.
Yah…its funny how you can read through this thread, and easily find the type of people who probably support affirmative action. It’s incredibly belittling to have to baby a WHOLE GROUP of people, and in this case a whole gender. For the sake of “diversity” in the FGC. What you’re almost saying is they aren’t capable on their own in order to rise to the top so in hopes that they could ever have a chance we need to make certain accommodations. You guys haven’t reached that full extreme yet, but you would definitely be nearing it if you had a lower entry fee bs for the tournament. If women want equality, and don’t want to be singled out and oogled at and all that shit. Then they shouldn’t expect to be treated differently like that. I’m not saying any girls are demanding this…so far the responses from the females are pretty mixed.
Shits, mad lame. We are all human beings, no?
You prove you’re the best by competing against the best. Everyone should feel welcome to join that tournament, because if you’re the best, you will rise through it. Taking the comment that it’s about the highest level of competition, and then suggesting that only the proven best should even be joining is a huge leap of logic.
Damn it, stop saying what I’m trying to say in a whole lot fewer words.
Your comments are so extreme that it’s difficult to take you seriously. This thread shows pretty clearly that this is a nuanced issue.
If it’s a culture thing, then our culture needs to change some. Not go completely in the other direction, but a lot of things in the past, may be holding us back. That’s why this site and EVO are changing. You can either roll with it, or keep the Super Adventure Club going.
Inkblot,
I appreciate what you’ve done for the FGC, from evo to srk and it’s helped many people. In return everybody values evo as the ultimate championship grounds and fighting arena. THe venue is great, the competition is great and even the timing in summer is great… It’s been good for the years past, but I think this was an error.
I along with the women who were going to enter obviously believe having a tournament just for women is insulting and causes a loss for another game to be in there. I truly don’t see the purpose for this. I’d agree and I sure many others will also that if you allowed women half of entry or enter 1 game and get another free type situation it’d be fair. That would encourage more women to attend without downplaying them.
I think people would rather see a different game in there whatever the choice over a gender only tournament. Perhaps push women to join, by advertising the discount or whatever the case, but a female only tournament just isn’t right.
That’s what you call…being melodramatic.
Since I don’t want to get into a meaningless debate on whose analogy is more appropriate (shudder) I will instead give an example of female chess grandmaster that happens to play poker too. She has won major women’s events in chess and took seventh in World Series Poker in 2009. (Her payout, according to wiki, was $78,864.)
Her article is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almira_Skripchenko
Pony up the money for a women’s tournament, and if there are strong players, there will be a good tournament. The real question is if the scene is that far along yet; unfortunately, the answer looks like no. None of these ideas for a (dignified) women’s tourney will work if there are not enough women players.
Thanks for the feedback. Just to clarify, the women’s tournament is not taking the place of any other game. If the tournament were removed like some people are suggesting we would just have 6 games on our 2010 roster, not 7.