Why people never understand than you don’t need an amazing Yun like pressure to be a good armor breaker… Claw with a safe rolling or amazing midrange pressure could, with reckless balance, be a monster when it comes to guard crush people.
Don’t worry man, the guard crush meter or guard damage in itself is a tough stuff to balance, but it doesn’t mean that charge character will be free to guard crush. Look at some sf zero or cvs2 to understand a bit this system before complaining.
Guard crushing has good intentions but the actual application ends up missing the point since it doesn’t take into account that sometimes you’re just going to be pressured and you have to wait it out. Some characters have really good blockstrings, it’s just a fact of life, and guard crushing is their best friend.
To the person who said “burst”, that sounds like an okay countermeasure to guard crushing. Maybe not burst exactly but a metered Advancing Guard might be the order of the day (maybe using something similar to KoF XI’s “Ability” meter that can command more than just defensive options; I believe Mortal Kombat X is implementing a meter like this).
What if there were no true blockstrings? Dropping the block input in the middle of a multi-hitting move causes you to get hit.
Blockstrings are with light in recent street fighters. If you have the same system as sf zero, good luck guard crushing with this.
You’d need 4 yun’s blockstring pressure to do the equivalent of Sakura’s far.hk on the guard bar.
Guard crush doesn’t mean reckless offense guys. Stay calm and play zero3 a bit to understand this a little more.
For what we know, Guard Crush may be limited to some “stances”. I didn’t sleep much this night, but i think i remember Ryu being in “Power Up” when he did a Guard Crush.
I wasn’t really thinking “reckless offense” but more like what Mike Z said in the video @Slamtastic posted. As your opponent nears the end of their guard crush meter, it becomes less about “pressure” and more about “tap, tap, tap”. Anything you can do to make the guard meter empty out then open a can on them.
You might say “well then you’re just setting yourself up to get countered by being too headstrong” but against the right character who doesn’t have a particularly good answer to very short bursts of offense it is an effective way to break through their line of defense.
If anything, they’ll probably give characters like Vega and Guile longer guard crush bars.
How does the OP know Vega is even in this game?
Also I highly doubt parry is going to be in this game as implemented in 3. Y’all forgot who is footing the bill for this game.
If some characters defense options are so terrible that even good players can’t help getting guard broken, then its a problem with the character being designed poorly and not the mechanics.
It’s not necessarily bad character design. Some characters are just designed to have bad defense as their flaw. We’ve seen that in the NEC’13 location test for USFIV with Vega. They gave his EX Scarlet Terror 4 frames of invincibility frames to cover up the startup. But then they took that out. They realized that this goes against what they envisioned for the character. That Vega has great pokes and mobility, but once you get in on him he shouldn’t have easy reversal options to escape.
Who knows, Street Fighter V is a new opportunity to redesign even the characters themselves, not just introducing new (old) system mechanics.
On another note, how about no system mechanics at all? Focus Attack might not return, but what if there was no Guard Crush and the other mechanics? Just straight up ST like, Super Arts (well, more like SFIII).
Some casual fans complain that the SFIV series was hard to get into. Well, Capcom, why not try NOT adding more mechanics?
You mean back to basics? Then there’s really nothing to look forward too. Basics can only go so far.
something to remember is guard crush is basically to encourage offense or active defense. it’s not the only mechanic that does this. it’s the same for a game with good (damaging/hard to tech) throws, or a really scary high/low game, or big chip damage on block. basically it’s just to discourage people from using “stay in down back” as a viable tactic.
also remember like tataki said earlier, mechanics don’t exist in a vacuum. SF5 will not be “SF4 + guard break.” mechanics and character tools vary from game to game. watch CVS2 or A3 and you’ll see those games play nothing like SF4 and the problems you’re imagining don’t really exist.
something that hasn’t been brought up but I think might be worth mentioning - guard crush is a mechanic to encourage offense that isn’t hurt that much by the game being played online. in online lag it’s harder to tech throws and harder to react to high/low mixups. guard crush would transfer better to online play than those other mechanics.
Guard crush encourages both players to be proactive (as said above), that is definitely a good thing.
Guard Crush isn’t the be all and end all of charge characters, other gameplay factors can effect them far greater. V-Ism for instance has a lot of unblockable block string setups which come in the form of repeated cross ups, this sort of thing really screws with charge characters as they’re constantly losing their charge in the setup. This sort of thing leads to 80% or even 100% damage in some cases and you’ve barely even touched the guard bar let alone broken someone’s guard. I guess the point is that guard break being present doesn’t break anything until we see what other mechanics the game has and how we can better apply those features in match, at which point guard crush becomes just one element in a much larger mind game.
Huh…I was going to post a counterpoint to this but saying game mechanics don’t exist in a vacuum basically takes care of the matter. I guess it is more important to see the forest through the trees. CvS2 did include options to respond to guard crushes. Alpha 3 did as well but its implementation was skewed (since using an Alpha Counter also cost you guard meter so you still had to pay the price for blocking in the first place).
Daigo and other top players are wrong about crush bars. Its actually one of the worst mechanics in a FG i’ve ever seen. I think players like Daigo want it in the game is because of how defensively oriented SF has always been. You can block 95% of neutral exchanges with dwnbck+crouch tech option. They want a crush to stop this.
However, you’re penalizing the player rather than making the game better. If I want to block or attack for 99 seconds, I shouldn’t be punished for it either way. Capcom needs better attacking mechanics so that opening people up is more of a thing. This will fix Daigo’s complaint + not break the nature of fighting games.
I really don’t see anything wrong with a cmmd short hop in which we can hit any air attack. Kind of like a uoh from 3s that lets you choose what normal to do out of the air. Now during neutral exchanges, EVERY character will be able to open you up. You can even scale short hop combo damage so people don’t get insane life from it.
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guard crushing penalizes the defender for blocking. Blocking is a skill just like attacking someone so much, they get a chance to break someones guard. If I block 7 layers in a row, do I get a free combo too? its skewed towards offense immensely.**
don’t penalize defensive players for blocking. Make attacking better so we’re still allowed to block w\o being guard broken. Force people to fight by giving characters more attacking options, more variations of high attacks, so they can still block but can’t turtle up due to bad game design.
I’ll take GB. kinda reminds me of GB’s in BR with light and heavy guards. That was nice.
It was kind of hard to get into, at least for me. The thing is, though, that wasn’t because the amount of mechanics, it was because of the specific mechanics that were put in. Even today, my biggest gripe (outside of focus attacks) is the fact that the combo system is the clunkiest I’ve seen in any game thus far. 1-frame links and FADCs are not particularly beginner friendly.
Yeah. Or, to be more precise: it penalizes them for blocking too much and staying too passive. I think that’s a good thing.
I’m a fan of guard crush, but stapling it onto SF4 would be pretty weak and lazy, though I do believe it would hugely BENEFIT charge characters in this game as they are able to cause you to block more than vice versa usually.
Adding more offensive options in general and making active defense better with more invincibility on dps and better hitboxes on anti air normals does a lot to keep the game more active in general. I’d also like to see more frame advantage on normals on block so that offensive momentum doesn’t end because you blocked 2 jabs unless the opponent has moves with forward momentum.
I think lack of throw protection(like Skullgirls) makes blocking matter less than a guard bar because you end up in situations where you just have to make hard reads defensively constantly. I’d much much rather block in CVS2 than in Skullgirls.
there are very few guard breaks in marvel and there is active defense. In fact, active defense is the real defense in marvel. Its exactly what daigo\other people want from the game and marvel does it without the need for guard breaks.
if you hold dwnbck for too long, you’re going to get opened up by layers sooner or later in marvel. People playing each other forces them to play differently rather than using bad engine mechanics to achieve the same result.
guard breaks suck. If active defense is what people want from the game, force them away from dwnbck with mixups. Not guaranteed free hits. Just like you can attack for 99 seconds, I should be able to block for 99 seconds. Skill is skill on either side of the coin.
there are MULTIPLE ways to achieve this result and guard breaking is the worst way to do it by leaps and bounds imo. Add a short hop, add more +frame attacks, get rid of couch teching so people can’t compound defensive options so easily in a game where there virtually no offensive options.