to imply that high-level play wouldn’t challenging to reach without the barrier of overly difficult execution is an insult to the amount of strategic mastery required to compete at that level
First of all, I’d like to know what you consider as difficult execution? Not to be rude, but all of your posts seem to focus with the barrier of overly difficult execution. I never mentioned or even implied overly difficult execution was a central factor in making high-level play challenging. I never snake strategy in that regard. I don’t know where you got that impression.
The concept of difficult execution is blurred. Because it’s relative, I want to ask you why you seem to have serious problem and always refer to overly difficult execution. What is it to you? I’ve met some people who tell me SRK is very hard to do. Then, that barrier stops them from playing SF. Seriously.
To sum up, I was just making a note that gaining the skill for high-level play (execution/strategy) should never be easy or simplifired.
We’ve all asked him, he’s never answered.
And Takari and altergenesis are right. After AC, the only FRC extensive characters I can think of are Bridget and Ino, and Testy or Sol depending on your style. Everyone else it’s more of an extra spice if you want to make the effort, but not nesscary.
i think this is important. When it comes to the accessability of fighting games, the execution barrier for most people isn’t FRCs, it’s SRKs. Have you ever tried to get your friends or girlfriends to pull of an srk if they’ve never played a fighter before? It’s rediculously alien to people. Nowadays video game experiences need to be served on a plate, execution needs to involve no more than a direction press and a button.
As far as i can tell, people complain that to play competatively in GG you need to spend a long time learing to perfect FRCs. In my opinion to play high level cvs2 or 3s you need to play the game for at least a year or two before you really get a handle on the system. In that time i’m pretty sure you would master FRC’s and be just as competative in GG, but you’d lose to more players with better execution during the early stages of your learning curve than you would at 3s. Am i wrong? i don’t even play GG lol
Um, sorry Altergenesis, but Arcana in no fucking way has a higher execution barrier then GG, not even close. Shit is dumb easy save for maybe a character or two.
And in reality I don’t think GG has a high execution barrier either, it’s just got a high number of system mechanics that make the game much more complex overall.
^ I was thinking the same exact thing chibi. I feel like a great number of individuals seem to be subconsciously confusing the concepts of “complexity” and “execution”.
To you it might not be, but I’m trying to put things into perspective here. I have certain problem with IAD combos, thus, making the characters I play in Arcana rather difficult. You can’t tell someone else what is difficult to them, because everyone has their own experiences.
…back to class.
I can’t believe this sad excuse for a thread is still alive. This should be put up there with the orochi zoolander posts hreads.
tell me something, what’s exactly stopping people from learning high level execution?
damn, you’re totally right. i guess something with almost no requirement for execution would lead to being a shitty, unpopular game that requires no skill and harbors only the crappiest playerbase.
oh wait, ever heard of this game called chess?
gtfo
polarity, you do realize your telling these people that theyre wasting their time, the possibility of finding independance and fame within a system comforts their mentality.
your destroying the illusion.
when locked into a tradition, ignorance is bliss :wgrin:
Nah, it makes for a GREAT game.
Makes for a shitty sport though.
And therefore ALIENATING. The above quote implies and affirms that the argument need apply less to high level play. I think the “difficult execution” argument basically applies to fighting systems with 3 (or more) pad/stick motions needed to execute one move. And it is that small barrier that will make or break the game’s accessability to each person.
I play and enjoy all different types of fighters, both dimensions, etc. I believe that Virtua Fighter’s system is one of the least difficult - move execution wise. And according to some of ya’lls general feelings about the lack of difficult move execution, you’re implying that a game like VF is depthless, unrewarding, uncompetitive, paper-rock-sissors, for pansies, and/or for the lazy. Also requiring little practice, not to mention skill - to get good at. And that blows my mind.
I understand some of the opinions about difficult move execution at a slightly higher level of play, but it does essentially seem have originally been a lazy balancing implement - that just stuck.
And be rediculously obsessive as you want, but a fighting game is a still just a fucking game. Not a sport. Not truly realistic. And non-analagous to anything in real life, except for the fact that some aspects of it are just taken too seriously.
No, not ‘to me’, Arcana’s execution requirement does not even come close to GG’s, and GG’s isn’t absurdly high to begin with. Simply because you have difficulty with them doesn’t somehow change the execution barrier to begin with.
I mean I fucking hate how you have to do IAD’s in AH, but having played MB, GG, EFZ, and fifty million other doji games, well it’s not all that ‘impossible’ in comparison.
So yeah, AH’s execution requirement <<<<<<< GG’s execution requirement.
Okay, I’ll take your word for it. It must only simply be because I’m more seasoned in GG than AH. As for me, I have never stated that the GG execution barrier was that hard in the first place. In fact, I think FRCs for the most part are rather rhythmic and easier than most people make it out to be.
Tell me something, what’s so great about doing difficult moves that means it should be a necessity to have to learn them in order to be able to compete at a level where only strategy matters?
I don’t really see this as relevant, because I’m sure most of us who are capable of reasoning beyond a third-grade level (i.e. not shoultzula) can see that plenty of games contain stuff that’s harder to do than necessary. In my view, techniques should only be as difficult to execute as necessary to sufficiently balance the game. Furthermore, using difficult execution as a balancing factor should be a last resort measure when there’s no other ways to achieve the same effect. For example, while the DP motion balances the DP in a way a one-button DP wouldn’t by requiring you to press non-blocking directions for at least 3 frames (meaning you can’t just do it out of a block), there are less execution-intensive ways to achieve the same effect - say, make the DP simply towards + a button and give it an additional 3 frames of vulnerable startup before the invincibility kicks in, unless it’s done as a reversal. It’s functionally identical and less alienating to new players who have difficulty with DP motions. I appreciate that this isn’t a perfect example; it would be way too easy to reversal DP out of blockstun/hitstun which is often pretty hard to time thanks to the DP motion, but I think it illustrates what I’m talking about decently. And no, before some retard brings it up, I don’t have any trouble doing DPs.
Okay, so even assuming that all existing fighting games are in fact sports, which I don’t think they are, who’s to say they have to be? What offends you so much about a fighter that doesn’t test execution?
Stop making shit up. Don’t try to make it out like people are implying things that suit your post best.
VF’s game system is not unbalanced. ST and VF are both good in that they have balanced game systems. There’s hard execution choices, and easy execution choices by alot of standards. The game’s respective systems allow both choices to be able to compete at all levels, and rewards for both. Which is why those games are at their level of respect.
That pretty much sums up what the thread is about though.
It’s like people say a3’s execution level is too hard, but it’s not ‘to me’. etc.
…
there are 2 parts to fighting games. Execution and strategy. Thats essentially what makes fighting games. With that being said, a fighting game is supposed to reflect actual fighting concepts.
In a real fight, if you can’t execute you’re moves properly, you probably won’t be able to hit someone. To execute your moves correctly, you must practice execution. This is why professional fighters train extensively. To make sure they execute as close to 100% as possible. They understand that if they can’t execute a specific punch, kick or throw, they could end up losing. Execution is one of the fundamental of fighting.
Strategy is the other half to fighters. In a real fight, if you swing wildy because you have the execution of you’re punches down pact, you probably won’t hit someone. This is where the strategy comes into play. How should you hit someone? how is he moving around? is he trying to counter any of my punches and if he is, do I have an angle to counter that? you’re missing the entire fact that it takes execution to pull off strategy. By omitting execution or dumbing it down, you’re not reflecting the actual concepts of fighting and therefore can’t be called a fighting game.
A fighter that doesn’t test strategy or execution isn’t a fighter. You need the 2 to actual form a fighter. This is why DOA is such a load of crap. Anyone can pick it up because it’s brain dead easy to play.
And you never answered my question, what’s stopping people from learning high level execution? I already know you’re answer. “its too hard” or " I don’t have the time."
If its too hard or you don’t have the time, fighters aren’t for you.
Who are you to dictate what fighting games “should” be? I already said, RIGHT IN MY FIRST FUCKING POST IN THIS THREAD, that if you disagree that strategy is the interesting part of fighting games and execution is just a hindrance to getting to the strategy that you’re going to disagree with my following points. If we can’t agree on that fundamental premise, we’re in the realm of opinion and there’s no point in me trying to sway you because there’s no objective way to do so. Nice to know this entire argument was a waste of time, try reading posts in future. :rolleyes:
I agree. A fighting game should have a balance of execution and strategy.
A fighter with only execution or only strategy would be pretty damn boring I think.
you’re a fucking idiot.
Fighting games reflect actual fighting concepts. Thats why they’re called fighters to begin with.
it takes execution to perform strategy. Yes, strategy is the more mental side but you still have to input buttons and you still have to react to the other guy, then counter his movement based on the scenario. So if you dumb down the execution, @ the same time you’re dumbing down strategy because the 2 are intertwined.