The Parry Mechanic

[Projectjustice]

It’s cool how this thread went from parries, to ultras, to how long the nostalgia dick is.

Its pretty big actually.

[Whizard]

I’m what you’d probably refer to as an 09’er and to be honest that is even an understatement, I started playing just over a year ago so call me a 13’er if you like. I mean, I brought the collecters edition when it was released but played it for a couple of months leisurely, decided I was bad at SF and gave up. But recently like I said picked it up and I’m at an average level of play and I have to say I don’t really play any other games aside from Street fighter now, it’s all I focus my attention on.

But I have to say I like watching the new tournaments of street fighter 4 and I also enjoy watching the old of 3rd Strike and even in some cases back to when turbo was played. It doesn’t make it any less interesting. Personally it wouldn’t bother me if parries were introduced or not, it’s just another mechanic you have to learn and get used to, (for the people that haven’t played 3S alot anyway like me). I play 3S sometimes on GGPO but i’m nowhere near as good as my SF4 play.

Either way, It’s not something that ruins a game or ruins certain aspects, it just add’s something else that you have to think about and take into consideration, it switches around the gameplay a bit but isn’t that good? Isn’t it a good thing that when you move on to the next series in a big franchise such as Street Fighter that they can bring back or take away something that made you think about the way you play the game differently? At the end of the day if you love street fighter, ypu’ll play it, and get good at it. no matter what new mechanics are put in place.

P.S, I don’t really understand the notion against people that havent been playing since SNES days or Third Strike days, some people just didn’t grow up with the same games or had different friends to influence thier choice of games when they were younger. Just because I start to have an interest in it at an older age and at a time when the franchise is more developed, doesn’t mean I am 1. worse at the game 2. not entitled to an opinion of what I think could improve the game. I don’t understand the people that think they have more of a right to say things about the franchise just because they have played a bigger selection of the games.

Just my view on parries and everything else haha. I’ll probably get some hate for this post won’t i?

EDIT: I’m not a fan of the revenge meter (ultra meter) in street fighter 4, I’d prefer to have the same kind of system as third strike and not be able to get a game changing bar of meter just for getting the shit kicked out of me. maybe if it was just built when doing positive things like focusing fireballs etc instead of actually juts getting beaten up. If it was just the super meter personally i’d like that more.

[StockyJam]

I like the Revenge meter cause it gives the opportunity for amazing comebacks. It makes things more exciting.

bro, you’ve been here for 12 years. You should know better than this. I’m gonna hope that’s just a troll statement.

Troll statement? Ive been here for a very long time and ive been playing fighting games since i was 10 years old in the late 80s. Im was here during the days that the it looked like Fighters was all a dead genre and still here after the rise of it. Ive just come to the realization that whatever helps fighters continue to grow is what im down for.

well sir, I personally am NOT “down” with whatever “helps” the fighting game genre grow.
I am only down for good well thought out rational game design to a fighter. And nothing less.

I used to be a huge 3s player since the day it was released. During those days I was in here having discussions in the 3s forums, having good battles with some amazing players. I still have a lot matches uploaded on my youtube channel. I was one of the few players recording matches in those pre-HD days. Where were you during those days? Ill tell you, you was being part of the reasons why fighters almost died.

No sir i’ll tell you the reason why fighters almost died.
One reason was that the market was oversaturated with badly designed SF clones capitalizing on SF2’s success.
Which also led to the fighting game genre being too overexposed. The fighting game market’s bubble burst.
Another reason was just the player base’s exhaustion for the genre. Most people who played video games during the 90s played SF2 and other fighting games. People played & played & played the genre to the point of nausea. The genre got burnt out.
SF3 being so sucky didn’t help either.
But SF3 didn’t kill SF’s popularity…all the rainbow edition cabinets out there coupled with STurbo and its impure unholy introduction of supers did. Anybody that was around during that scene knew that.

You think I liked the Ultra system and FA system when they first came out?

I didn’t like it with its inception, still don’t like it, and will never like it. That’s the difference between us, isn’t it?

The reversal window in SF4 is one of the biggest abomination any fighter in the history of fighters has ever had.

i’ll agree with you on this.

No I didnt like SF4, I found too much hand holding for all those scurbs out there that shun fighters all those years but are now back due to the HD shinny graphics and over the top camera angles. Theres a reason 09ers tag became so big but you know what? I came to realized that SF needed change.

I don’t mind change. as long as its for the better. But SF hasn’t gotten better over the years now has it? last time I checked only worse. its called bad game design and bad experimental ideas that didn’t pan out and the philosophy of fighters derailing from what makes good fighting games which happens to be good strategy, good pacing, a reliance on your fundamentals centered around solid anti-airs, footsies, spacing and zoning… into what we have now which is gimmicky comebacks, “defensive” mechanics that negate half your tools, simon says factory made combos that only exist due to bad frame data math that doesn’t add up logically, and the dissipation of your fundamentals because of all this muddy messy game design by people who were put in charge of a genre they don’t seem to really grasp.

It couldnt and shouldnt be stuck in the past.

Yes, it shouldn’t get stuck in the past, but the past established what the genre is based around which is the rock-papers-scissors philosophy. That’s the fundamental core of the genre. in other words, good logical rational strategy. like a chess match but with reactionary timing involved.
Move A beats move C but loses to move B and move B beats move A but loses to move C.
That doesn’t exist anymore.
Now move A beats move B and move C. and if all else fails, mash move D for comeback developer installed victory.

Now i embrace change and what Capcom has done to bring this amazing community back.

I don’t embrace anything Capcom has done since all they did was screw up royally by making bad decisions which has them teetering on the brink of financial dissolvement of the company. With good reason. Its called bad decisions by people who don’t know what they are doing catering to people who don’t know any better than to eat shovelware.

[Projectjustice]

well sir, I personally am NOT “down” with whatever “helps” the fighting game genre grow.
I am only down for good well thought out rational game design to a fighter. And nothing less.

Well you should be cause this new game design in SF4 make it very successful and now we are in the SFV forum talking about a sequel. Which can lead to a more rational game design that you so much clamor for. Without the success of SF4 it wouldnt even be possible. And thats why ive grown out of this backwards way of thinking.

No sir i’ll tell you the reason why fighters almost died.
One reason was that the market was oversaturated with badly designed SF clones capitalizing on SF2’s success.
Which also led to the fighting game genre being too overexposed. The fighting game market’s bubble burst.
Another reason was just the player base’s exhaustion for the genre. Most who played video games played SF2 and other fighting games. People played & played & played the genre to the point of nausea. The genre got burnt out.
SF3 being so sucky didn’t help either.
But SF3 didn’t kill SF’s popularity…all the rainbow edition cabinets out there coupled with STurbo and its impure unholy introduction of supers did. Anybody that was around during that scene knew that.

I never gave reasons in why the fighter genre was almost dead. That entire statement was about how I still stay strong playing the fighters with friends getting together at gatherings in NYC and making new friends during those dark times. SF3 wasnt a sucky fighter as you so put it. Its a great fighting game that had one major flaw, its roster.

I didn’t like it with its inception, still don’t like it, and will never like it. That’s the difference between us, isn’t it?

No the difference between us is that im happy every major SF entry is different from one another.

i’ll agree with you on this.

Yet I still flow with it and play the game. No fighting game is perfect.

I don’t mind change. as long as its for the better. But SF hasn’t gotten better over the years now has it? last time I checked only worse. its called bad game design and bad experimental ideas that didn’t pan out and the philosophy of fighters derailing from what makes good fighting games which happens to be good strategy, good pacing, a reliance on your fundamentals centered around solid anti-airs, footsies, spacing and zoning… into what we have now which is gimmicky comebacks, “defensive” mechanics that negate half your tools, simon says factory made combos that only exist due to bad frame data math that doesn’t add up logically, and the dissipation of your fundamentals because of all this muddy messy game design by people who were put in charge of a genre they don’t seem to really grasp.

SF4 was for the better, way better for the community and making it grow again. Sorry but no game should be designed for small group or individual. SF4 isnt the first game with a Ultra system and when it comes down to it. You still have to play those footsies, good reads, out think your opponent and adapt to your opponent. Regardless of all these issues you have with the game those things stay true. Maybe you need to adapt in your old age.

Yes, it shouldn’t get stuck in the past, but the past established what the genre is based around which is the rock-papers-scissors philosophy. That’s the fundamental core of the genre. in other words, good logical rational strategy. like a chess match but with reactionary timing involved.
Move A beats move B but loses to move C and Move C beats A but loses to move B.
That doesn’t exist anymore.
Now move A beats B and C. and if all else fails, mash move D for comeback developer installed victory.

Thats ridiculous, its still based heavily on Rocks, paper and scissors. A Ultra system doesnt take that away. Any game that uses a gauge stock system is going to affect your options during the match and all fighters today have this as part of their gameplay. This is why we still have bad matches and good ones. Getting a life lead and turtling with a stock super/ultra has been part of fighting games way before SF4 and thats a fact. I completely disagree with you on this.

I don’t embrace anything Capcom has done since all they did was screw up royally by bad decisions which has them teetering on the brink of financial dissolvement of the company. With good reason. Its called bad decisions by people who don’t know what they are doing catering to people who don’t know any better than to eat shovelware.

You feel that SF3 and SF4 is shovelware but SF2 is perfect. Sounds to me you are the one with having issues embracing anything thats new. Capcom isnt forcing anything on you. You get on GGPO and 2DF and live in the glory days of SF2 forever. You dont have to buy anything. I feel bad for you actually. Ill be enjoying everything from the past, to the present and soon the future.

[StockyJam]

well sir, I personally am NOT “down” with whatever “helps” the fighting game genre grow.
I am only down for good well thought out rational game design to a fighter. And nothing less.

Well you should be cause this new game design in SF4 make it very successful.

You know what else was successful? The Bubonic plague. But just cuz it was successful doesn’t make it automatically good.

No sir i’ll tell you the reason why fighters almost died.
One reason was that the market was oversaturated with badly designed SF clones capitalizing on SF2’s success.
Which also led to the fighting game genre being too overexposed. The fighting game market’s bubble burst.
Another reason was just the player base’s exhaustion for the genre. Most who played video games played SF2 and other fighting games. People played & played & played the genre to the point of nausea. The genre got burnt out.
SF3 being so sucky didn’t help either.
But SF3 didn’t kill SF’s popularity…all the rainbow edition cabinets out there coupled with STurbo and its impure unholy introduction of supers did. Anybody that was around during that scene knew that.

I never gave reasons in why the fighter genre was almost dead. That entire statement was about how I still stay strong playing the fighters with friends getting together at gatherings in NYC and making new friends during those dark times. SF3 wasnt a sucky fighter as you so put it. Its a great fighting game that had one major flaw, its roster.

I didn’t like it with its inception, still don’t like it, and will never like it. That’s the difference between us, isn’t it?

No the difference between us is that im happy every major SF entry is different from one another.

again, different doesn’t equal good.

i’ll agree with you on this.

Yet I still flow with it and play the game. No fighting game is perfect.

I don’t mind change. as long as its for the better. But SF hasn’t gotten better over the years now has it? last time I checked only worse. its called bad game design and bad experimental ideas that didn’t pan out and the philosophy of fighters derailing from what makes good fighting games which happens to be good strategy, good pacing, a reliance on your fundamentals centered around solid anti-airs, footsies, spacing and zoning… into what we have now which is gimmicky comebacks, “defensive” mechanics that negate half your tools, simon says factory made combos that only exist due to bad frame data math that doesn’t add up logically, and the dissipation of your fundamentals because of all this muddy messy game design by people who were put in charge of a genre they don’t seem to really grasp.

SF4 was for the better, way better for the community and making it grow again. Sorry but no game should be designed for small group or individual. SF4 isnt the first game with a Ultra system and when it comes down to it. You still have to play those footsies, good reads, out think your opponent and adapt to your opponent. Regardless of all these issues you have with the game those things stay true. Maybe you need to adapt in your old age.

sorry. I’m very set in my ways. Stubborn in my old ways…so I cant accept bad game design. sorry. blame it on my old age.

Yes, it shouldn’t get stuck in the past, but the past established what the genre is based around which is the rock-papers-scissors philosophy. That’s the fundamental core of the genre. in other words, good logical rational strategy. like a chess match but with reactionary timing involved.
Move A beats move B but loses to move C and Move C beats A but loses to move B.
That doesn’t exist anymore.
Now move A beats B and C. and if all else fails, mash move D for comeback developer installed victory.

Thats ridiculous, its still based heavily on Rocks, paper and scissors. A Ultra system doesnt take that away. Any game that uses a gauge stock system is going to affect your options during the match and all fighters today have this as part of their gameplay. This is why we still have bad matches and good ones. Getting a life lead and turtling with a stock super/ultra has been part of fighting games way before SF4 and thats a fact. I completely disagree with you on this.

I don’t embrace anything Capcom has done since all they did was screw up royally by bad decisions which has them teetering on the brink of financial dissolvement of the company. With good reason. Its called bad decisions by people who don’t know what they are doing catering to people who don’t know any better than to eat shovelware.

You feel that SF3 and SF4 is shovelware but SF2 is perfect. Sounds to me you are the one with having issues embracing anything thats new. Capcom isnt forcing anything on you. You get on GGPO and 2DF and live in the glory days of SF2 forever. You dont have to buy anything. I feel bad for you actually. Ill be enjoying everything from the past, to the present and soon the future.

Nah, SF2 isn’t perfect. Especially Vanilla and ST. But HF and SSF2 came close.

[d3v]

Ok, that’s it. You take it to PMs you two.

[StockyJam]

@Projectjustice‌
you know that guy Reynald that won KOFXIII.
I heard that when he first went online to play GGPO KOF98 he got blown up big time.
Know why?
Cuz he thought he could play 98 like the way he plays KOFXIII. and he was sadly mistaken.
and he got blown up for it. He thought he could jump around, not giving a fuck, being all reckless with “I don’t give a fuck jump ins”…and got destroyed.
Know why?
Cuz in that game, anti-air normals actually fucking hurt. And are more functional due to their good hitboxes and greater active frames than they are in KOFXIII. Couple that with no hyperdrive muscle memorized simon says 25+ hit combo bullshit to make a comeback in case he succeeds on a rare whiffed or stuffed anti-air of his jump in…and all of a sudden you got a guy with really bad basic fundamentals getting blown up.

Modern fighters teaches you bad fundamentals my friend because they’ve strayed away from the core philosophy that the old school fighters taught you which was good fundamentals. That’s the reality.

Which is why, like I said, you should know better for saying you don’t have a problem with gimmicks like Ultras installed into a SF game.

that’s all I have left to say.

[fischbs]

The same can be said about any fighter when your opponent has a stock bar regardless of system. If SF4 didnt have the Ultra system and lets say it was the Super Art system from 3s. Are you telling me that during that fight vs Ryan heart that Ryan wouldnt be able to get a fully stock bar? Which then in turn would limit Momochi’s options?

It would limit Momochi’s options. The difference is that Ryan Hart may not have had that meter for Super available, no, because he may have used EX’s earlier in the fight. Or, if he saved for Super, he wouldn’t have been able to use those EX’s earlier. Also, even if he made the correct read with the Super, it wouldn’t have done as much damage. It also doesn’t have the threat of being a reversal that does 40% damage which limits Momochi’s pressure and mixup on Ryan’s wakeup. You’re also not capable of converting into Super off of an FADC Shoryu because Focus likely wouldn’t be in either, but Super would use the entire bar anyways.

I think I’ve more than made my point and if you’re going to keep disagreeing then that’s just the way it’s going to have to be. The difference between an Ultra and a Super is pretty clear, in terms of how you gain and use the Super resource (and how using and gaining that resource impacts your play compared to using and gaining Ultra), and how many more options Ultra beats compared to Super.

[Projectjustice]

@Projectjustice‌
you know that guy Reynald that won KOFXIII.
I heard that when he first went online to play GGPO KOF98 he got blown up big time.
Know why?
Cuz he thought he could play 98 like the way he plays KOFXIII. and he was sadly mistaken.
and he got blown up for it. He thought he could jump around, not giving a fuck, being all reckless with “I don’t give a fuck jump ins”…and got destroyed.
Know why?
Cuz in that game, anti-air normals actually fucking hurt. And are more functional due to their good hitboxes and greater active frames than they are in KOFXIII. Couple that with no hyperdrive muscle memorized simon says 25+ hit combo bullshit to make a comeback in case he succeeds on a rare whiffed or stuffed anti-air of his jump in…and all of a sudden you got a guy with really bad basic fundamentals getting blown up.

Modern fighters teaches you bad fundamentals my friend because they’ve strayed away from the core philosophy that the old school fighters taught you which was good fundamentals. That’s the reality.

Which is why, like I said, you should know better for saying you don’t have a problem with gimmicks like Ultras installed into a SF game.

that’s all I have left to say.

In SF4 if you jump a lot you will get blown pretty easy. So I dont know how that teaches bad fundamentals. If you watch Capcom Cup no one as jumping accept on trying to do wakeup vortexes and delay wakeup has tone that down. The only thing I see that really teaches bad Fundamentals is that reversal window. Its the worst thing about SF4. Theres nothing wrong with the Ultra system, you might not like it but the game is balanced around it.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

[Projectjustice]

The same can be said about any fighter when your opponent has a stock bar regardless of system. If SF4 didnt have the Ultra system and lets say it was the Super Art system from 3s. Are you telling me that during that fight vs Ryan heart that Ryan wouldnt be able to get a fully stock bar? Which then in turn would limit Momochi’s options?

It would limit Momochi’s options. ** The difference is that Ryan Hart may not have had that meter for Super available,** no, because he may have used EX’s earlier in the fight. Or, if he saved for Super, he wouldn’t have been able to use those EX’s earlier. Also, even if he made the correct read with the Super, it wouldn’t have done as much damage. It also doesn’t have the threat of being a reversal that does 40% damage which limits Momochi’s pressure and mixup on Ryan’s wakeup. You’re also not capable of converting into Super off of an FADC Shoryu because Focus likely wouldn’t be in either, but Super would use the entire bar anyways.

I think I’ve more than made my point and if you’re going to keep disagreeing then that’s just the way it’s going to have to be. The difference between an Ultra and a Super is pretty clear, in terms of how you gain and use the Super resource (and how using and gaining that resource impacts your play compared to using and gaining Ultra), and how many more options Ultra beats compared to Super.

You cant say that 100%. One thing thats certain in fighting games especially in SF, you will have a stock meter within the round unless you get perfect. If the system is different like there’s no Ultra system, you really think EX moves would be used as much as they are now? Fundamentals change according to what tools you have access to.

[J.D]

snip

That’s a nice way to contribute absolutely nothing to the conversation.
You said that parries nullify footsies. What that statement tells me is that you have no idea how a game like Third Strike plays.
You mentioned a situation where 2 characters jump at each other in 3s and said how that always results in an empty jump because nobody wants to get parried, that’s wrong.

3rd strike=two characters jump in at each other, land in each other’s faces, no one hits buttons from fear of getting parried. Both players walk away from each other

That right there gives it away that you have no idea what is happening.
What parry does, is that it makes it so you have to completely establish dominance of an angle before your opponent will respect it.
In a game like SF2, if you’re playing in your EVO pools against a stranger, I bet you that 90% of the time you wouldn’t jump at Guile because he is guile, not because of your opponent.
That doesn’t happen in a game with parry. In a game with parry, your opponent first has to let you know you can’t jump at him.

I remember playing a set against Hsien Chang on 3s a while back he was using Ken.
He knew at least 4 different timings to do an anti air uppercut. There were some distances where I had to respect the angle just as if I was playing against an SF2/SF4 Ken. Parry wasn’t the answer at all for that situation, he had the advantage through probability every time. In other words, he had some angles 95% neutralized, so I wasn’t taking any chances after he established that. Once that was established, I sure as hell wasn’t jumping at him even with parry.

Same with the situation you mentioned of two guys jumping at each other.
In 3s, there’s at least 3 different timings to poke when you’re in that situation. On two of those situations, if your opponent parries first, he is at a disadvantage. This means that 66.66% of the time you would prefer it that your opponent tries to parry. How the hell can you say people are “scared” of getting parried when they jump at each other. That is completely insane. Again, just another hint that you do not understand the game.
I hope at this point I don’t have to explain you that this applies to footsies as well. I’d believe you if you said you played 3s and you felt like your footsie game was completely nullified. That is completely possible if you don’t understand the neutral of the game, but to say that the parry mechanic nullifies footsies in general, that is entirely wrong. Go watch the complete set of EVO moment 37 and then say with a straight face that game has no footsies.

I’m not saying that a neutral game with parry is superior or more deep than that of SF4, SF2 or Alpha. Those games also have their own things that make them amazing just like 3s.
I’m saying that a neutral game with parry is different, and its also just as deep as any other great system you could mention. After 6 years with the neutral game of SF2/SF4, I think it’s a good idea to revisit the parry neutral too.

Oh and yes, parry is a very effective way to punish bad habits and cr. tech mashing, so I can understand why a huge percentage of people who were introduced to fighting games through SF4 don’t like it, but still, they have to learn sometime.
I know parry won’t be on SF5 anyway, but I at least hope they revisit the neutral in Street Fighter in general.

[Projectjustice]

Well said J.D. if I wasn’t at physical therapy I would be firing up 3SOE right now! Lol

[StockyJam]

listen, that statement I made about 2 characters jumping in on each other, no one hitting buttons from fear of getting parried, and walking away from each other wasn’t even originally mine. Someone else posted it years ago in the FGD boards like 5 years ago. In some thread about “Why SF3 failed to be popular?” or something like that.
I just never forgot it and re-used it here.
The statement that someone made, that statement about neutral jumping in was obviously an exaggeration someone made to prove their point about the ebb flow and pace of SF3.
But it still stands true.
No one likes the parry mechanic…except turd strikers.
Parries are not coming back.
Ever.
Its not, has not, and will never be popular amongst SF players.
The only time Capcom brought it back was in CVS2.
And only to appease the turd strikers.
So,
stop your hopes,
your dreams,
your wishful thinking,
your wants,
your lusts and desires,
cuz its not making a comeback into any further SF games.
The parry is hated by most SF players.
despised by all except 3rd strikers.
So let
it
go.
let it go.
give it up already.
jesus if it isn’t true what everyone says which is that SF3 lovers are hella obnoxious about bringing parries back.

Capcom bringing the parry back for SFV would be 1,000% financial suicide.
And Capcom cant afford to fuck up SFV with the state that company is in. Since its in a teetering state right now where they’ve made the buying out of the company public.
This is probably why I think SFV looks very “back to basics” in its gameplay. Cuz they NEED SFV to do as well as it can and they are seemingly going back to centering the gameplay on fundamentals. Which is sorely sorely welcome by the vast majority of the Street Fighter community.
Stop trying to shoehorn the most despised defensive mechanic into the game and transforming it into something niche for a few players which is what SF3 turned out becoming.

Stop
trying
to
ruin
Street
Fighter!

Others like me are trying to salvage it by bringing it back to basics centered around core fundamentals of any old school fighter which is good anti-airs, footsies using all and not some of your buttons which parries and focus attacks negate, spacing, frame data math that makes sense, rational hitboxes, no op jump ins moves, and great tier balance of all the characters.
back to the basics=popular
popular=success.
period.
parries are not repeat NOT popular!
Neither are focus attacks or ultras!
stahp it!!!
Stop your nonsense of parry and focus attack love affairs, your “I welcome despised by all gimmicky comeback ultras with open arms”, and your “cuz I’m good at 3rd strike cuz i mastered the parry so please Capcom make SFV just like 3rd strike so I can be good at that too” selfish nonsense.
I’m good at guilty gear too but you don’t hear me asking for Guilty Gear mechanics like a burst and roman cancels being introduced into the game now do you?
(-_-)
damnit.
stop your selfishness already.
fucking turd strikers need to let that parry shit go.
this thread shouldn’t even exist.

[StockyJam]

@Projectjustice‌
you know that guy Reynald that won KOFXIII.
I heard that when he first went online to play GGPO KOF98 he got blown up big time.
Know why?
Cuz he thought he could play 98 like the way he plays KOFXIII. and he was sadly mistaken.
and he got blown up for it. He thought he could jump around, not giving a fuck, being all reckless with “I don’t give a fuck jump ins”…and got destroyed.
Know why?
Cuz in that game, anti-air normals actually fucking hurt. And are more functional due to their good hitboxes and greater active frames than they are in KOFXIII. Couple that with no hyperdrive muscle memorized simon says 25+ hit combo bullshit to make a comeback in case he succeeds on a rare whiffed or stuffed anti-air of his jump in…and all of a sudden you got a guy with really bad basic fundamentals getting blown up.

Modern fighters teaches you bad fundamentals my friend because they’ve strayed away from the core philosophy that the old school fighters taught you which was good fundamentals. That’s the reality.

Which is why, like I said, you should know better for saying you don’t have a problem with gimmicks like Ultras installed into a SF game.

that’s all I have left to say.

In SF4 if you jump a lot you will get blown pretty easy. So I dont know how that teaches bad fundamentals.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Are you kidding?
What game are you playing?
Have you looked at the hitboxes for some jump in moves in SFIV?
Have you looked at the active frame data and hitboxes for the known anti-air normals for the Alpha, SF2, and SF3 characters in SF4 and compared them to the hitboxes and frame data for the same characters when they where in SF2, SF3, and Alpha?
Obviously you haven’t. Obviously you don’t know
(-_-)
please do so. For your sake and the sake of SFV, please do so.

[fischbs]

You cant say that 100%. One thing thats certain in fighting games especially in SF, you will have a stock meter within the round unless you get perfect. If the system is different like there’s no Ultra system, you really think EX moves would be used as much as they are now? Fundamentals change according to what tools you have access to.

I don’t know what else to say. If he saved for Super then he wouldn’t have used EX moves which limits his options before using Super. If he did use EX moves he wouldn’t have had the Super to use. Instead of landing Ultra through a fireball for 40% damage, he would have had the option to land EX Fireball for minor damage and knockdown, or Super for 20%ish damage and knockdown.

[Projectjustice]

@Projectjustice‌
you know that guy Reynald that won KOFXIII.
I heard that when he first went online to play GGPO KOF98 he got blown up big time.
Know why?
Cuz he thought he could play 98 like the way he plays KOFXIII. and he was sadly mistaken.
and he got blown up for it. He thought he could jump around, not giving a fuck, being all reckless with “I don’t give a fuck jump ins”…and got destroyed.
Know why?
Cuz in that game, anti-air normals actually fucking hurt. And are more functional due to their good hitboxes and greater active frames than they are in KOFXIII. Couple that with no hyperdrive muscle memorized simon says 25+ hit combo bullshit to make a comeback in case he succeeds on a rare whiffed or stuffed anti-air of his jump in…and all of a sudden you got a guy with really bad basic fundamentals getting blown up.

Modern fighters teaches you bad fundamentals my friend because they’ve strayed away from the core philosophy that the old school fighters taught you which was good fundamentals. That’s the reality.

Which is why, like I said, you should know better for saying you don’t have a problem with gimmicks like Ultras installed into a SF game.

that’s all I have left to say.

In SF4 if you jump a lot you will get blown pretty easy. So I dont know how that teaches bad fundamentals.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Are you kidding?
What game are you playing?
Have you looked at the hitboxes for some jump in moves in SFIV?
Have you looked at the active frame data and hitboxes for the known anti-air normals for the Alpha, SF2, and SF3 characters in SF4 and compared them to the hitboxes and frame data for the same characters when they where in SF2, SF3, and Alpha?
Obviously you haven’t. Obviously you don’t know
(-_-)
please do so. For your sake and the sake of SFV, please do so.

Have you watched EVO, Capcom Cup, or NEC lately? Those matches players dont jump, you will get blown up if you do. You are too busy trying to compared things to the past that makes you see things in absolutes. Just cause in past games it was more dangerous it doesnt mean SF4 is a free for all jump game. If you ever played me in SF4 ill show you how bad jumping is. Ive had plenty of matches vs players that love to jump and by the end of the match they stopped jumping. So it can teach bad mechanics. Ive seen it.

[Projectjustice]

You cant say that 100%. One thing thats certain in fighting games especially in SF, you will have a stock meter within the round unless you get perfect. If the system is different like there’s no Ultra system, you really think EX moves would be used as much as they are now? Fundamentals change according to what tools you have access to.

I don’t know what else to say. If he saved for Super then he wouldn’t have used EX moves which limits his options before using Super. If he did use EX moves he wouldn’t have had the Super to use. Instead of landing Ultra through a fireball for 40% damage, he would have had the option to land EX Fireball for minor damage and knockdown, or Super for 20%ish damage and knockdown.

Thats what im trying to get at. We dont know what really would of happened with a different system. SF4 has its own unique rules but one thing thats certain when you have a fully stock gauge bar it limits your opponents options.

[Riot55]

So 3rd Strike was your first big boy SF game? That’s cute.
Mine was SF.
Yeah, you read right. not SF2. not SF3. or SF4.
but the very 1st one.
back in 89.
on arcade cabinet.

And no, this isn’t my 1st SRK account either.

and yes my friend. yes.
I’m much too old to still be playing video games lol.

If you are old enough to have played SF1 in arcades then why do you type like a spastic 12 year old?

[J.D]

parries are not repeat NOT popular!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7hkwbKmBM

[Lemres]

Looks like this thread is about to get locked again… facepalm