The Old Newbie Thread

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
321

…Duc is a freak…i’ve never seen anyone play spiral like that…i think that she’s where she should be…i think you can kill her off of one combo with santhrax…as well as various other teams…the key is being able to keep her trap going …pinning your opponent down so that they can’t do anything and then cable cleans up…which is incredibly hard to do…with players getting smartersome…and the whole guard canceling thing…

you just have to think about it this way…how many good magentos have you seen?..tons…good sents…tons…good storms…tons…good spiral??..only duc…that i can think of if you know someone else post it up didn’t mean any disrespect

i dont’ think she is as good as the top four …simply because she needs sentinel desperately to keep the trap going…i tried playing her for about a month back in my strider doom days…simply because she’s a great battery who doesn’t need any supers …teleport gives you meter…so you can just do that shit all day and build meter…although thats not the best way to build with her…overall she’s solid no real holes except for stamina…and degree of difficulty…no really punishing combos you have to rely on the chip damage…

she has good assists…except for the swords that go up…don’t really see a point in that but the other two are servicable…nice speed…especially with the power up priority is good i’ve seen her fierce beat RP in the air…now if only they gave her a defense up she’d be even better

322

Well, actually there are a few really good BH and Doom users around. I am probably the only guy around here, who has the balls to start Doom on point at anytime, and have for a long time. People say, also I do have a good BH as well, as BH/Sent/Capcom is my main tournament team. Also, Stiltman is very good with BH and Spiral, which leads me to wonder where the hell is he in this convo???

Anywho, both BH and Doom, as previously stated I believe, have a lot better damage potential on point than Spiral. BH can uses assists, and trap, or use assist and get damaging combos. Also, Doom can get damage all by his lonesome, and very good damage at that.

Spiral does not have this luxury at all. The best she could hope for is three combos, one being the metamorphasis combo, which at often times is impractical, because of the amount of meter that it takes to do that, and that meter can be used for something more useful, the speed up infinte which can be impractical as well, and the assist to knives to dhc. Other than that, the only potential that Spiral has to get damage, is by trapping, and you know eventually, traps will be escaped pretty much.

But, I will try and get some more footage of me this weekend playing Watts and both of my Gadget(freshly named by someone I flirt with, but two old teams I still run) teams. Just to show people why BH and Doom are up there still pretty much.

323

Alot of people play santhrax - even those players noted for using, say MSP. Its a really hard match up (even just sent/commando). Plus its question of time - characters like IM,strider and spiral require a big investment - more so than others, so anyone learning to play Marvel in an arcade where they’re are good players around with a few years experience isn’t likely to stick to spiral - esp with hard match ups on sent and people telling you to drop her and pick better teams or saying shit like your not Duc.

and in regards to other posts about spiral players - R Ortiz used to play as her, as well as Mad Boo Face, Breheem uses her occ. in the matches I’ve seen him against D Hyo. Banshee has posted some good stuff about her but he doesn’t play Marvel from what I can gather. Stilt uses her too.

MGS
"no really punishing combos you have to rely on the chip damage"
Nothing that damaging in the air, but with meter a d+ Lk can dish out some good damage ( combo Hp and drones, sword super, HVB xx HSF).

edit - Coo coos posted the above right before me.
I’ll add some more later.

324

Hmm, I see, interesting post guys, this helps me out alot in the understanding of why Spiral is ranked where she is in 2nd Tier. I just felt that she deserved to be bumped up in the 2nd tier listings, but not into the Big 4, however after reading all of this, I can see why she is ranked and stays where she’s at. I guess abscence of BH, and Doom players have made my brain melt slightly from intelligence so I needed the wakeup call, but great info for everyone who contributed, I appreciate it.

325

im with CoosCoos. seeing Watts in my AV. i do agree that BH really can do pain and havoc in an opponent with proper use of an assist and BH himself on point(e.g. Commando). Most of the time when playing watts, i really start BH unless i know i can really pin them down with sent…

326

i think youre looking way too much into the placement in the tier brackets…any god character is great…its a debate to say who is the best in the game…some say sent because of his power defense…some say mags because of his potential to kill you off of one hit…some say storm because she’s the most versatile in the game…some say cable because well…AHVB…although most ppl agree that cable is the worst out of the four top characters because he needs cover and meter to be effective…funny thing about the second tier is that they are all annoying as fuck to fight…

BH is so annoying to fight…and its not the players fault they aren’t trying to be cheap just using him the way he’s designed…although still very annoying

doom…i try to hurt this guy as much as i can when he’s an assist…bc…sj pink shit, pink shit, yellow shit etc etc…annoys the fuck out of me

not may ppl play spiral so i rarely get a chance to fight her…although there is this one asian guy who plays at CF ppl probably know him if they go there plays spiral sent tron bon…but he doesn’t even really work the trap…

i’d like to make an argument for omega…to be bumped up…he is an all around good character has the ability to regain health…multiple times in a combo…3rd tier when it comes to stamina…has good cross ups…if timed right can stop ahvb from across the screen with his df+rh…the only down side is he has only one super and its hard to pull off really unless youre hitting an assist but other than that what could you really say bad about him? one on one i think he pretty much could own up everyone in the 2nd tier…with the exception of tony starks(don’t get hit)…he’s really good with sentinel drones i usually play him on point…because his assists suck…guess thats another knock on him…omega strike has great priority its just tortise slow…but he’s probably the best battery in the game…gotta be between him and bH

psylocke should be removed from the best assist list…because i mean c’mon she’s only good with one team…two if you count team george(mag,IM,Psy) cf players know what i’m talking about…

an argument could be made for IM to be in the God tier…because he can kill an entire team without much effort or thinking being involved but i know his speed or lack thereof…keeps him in the 2nd bracket

327

Every Character in the second tier is simply the most annonying gimmecks in the game to fight.

Cable is also a gimmeck,but he’s deck-out enough to actually be top tier(worse top tier…not imo, thats a FACT).

the main reasons why storm, sentinel, and magneto are Top is due to thier Priorty,Mobility, Damage potential, and over-all there ability to fight every character 1v1 and win.

328

so then there is the debate…on who is number 1…i think that it has to be storm…for the simple fact she has no bad matchups…mags has some sent has one cable has the other top 3…but she has no bad matchups

329

Spiral is awesome! And… yes its too bad that no one really knows how to play her really well. She can do damage that isn’t chip - she has damaging combos but whey risk it when you can cihll and chip and piss people off? :slight_smile:

Duc

330

Between Storm, Sentinel and mag the order is like this

1-Storm
2-Sentinel
3-Magneto

1v1 anything can happen, but with the factors of there best teams, and what not.

Storm takes it, however her best is with drones/anti air, Magneto’s weakness is that he simply can’t fight as well as Sentinel and Storm from a distance.

Control is what this game is all about, and if a character has trouble doing that from any angle then they aren’t top tier.

Imo Spiral > almost all of the Second tier list, only person that can be as tough as her is Strider, but thats a different ball game all together.

Spiral vs Strider tier wise is a tough call i would rather hear Duc and Clock’s opinion on this

331

I really dont like the idea of teirs because you can always be “randomed” by someone. Its rare that you find a good trap player and trap players win because of this. Trap is really hard to fight if you dont know what to do.

hmm strider vs spiral.

id have to say spiral is better only because of cable. She can really get that meter up and if she does die cable has 5 meters and can win the game off one mistake. Striders trap may be a little tighter than spirals but I cant tell. Ive seen duc play and hell trap people longer than I will.

you really cant base trap tiers on one character. Since it takes a team to win, you really have to look at the whole team. If your playing ssd and strider dies it can be game. If you play ducs squad and spiral dies its not over. Strider has to stay alive for some matchups because sentinel cant fight certain duos.

but striders sword has awesome priority. Beats storm for free , magnus, sentinel, cable. You really cant fuck with it if you know how to use it.

332

i would say that spiral and strider not trap characters rather they are more “Block Stun Killers”

if you know someone that turtles hard enough to stop all rushdowns then pick duos like Spiral/sentinel, or strider/Doom, and listen to the music of CHEAP that flies out of there mouth.

In Marvel And in any game blocking isn’t good enough, Zoning FTW IMO

in my opinion the only reason why spiral isn’t played as often as strider is because the level of excution/zoning need to use her like Duc for example is far higher to be done on top players then it is for Strider/Doom to beat a top player, Why?, Because to beat Strider/doom you have to move all around the screen, staying in one spot will get you killed, same with spiral, only with spiral there is more chances to move, atleast when outside the “trap” or lockdown as i would say. Swords are easier to Get away from, but Don’t waste meter, Orbs are much harder, and with the combo of Doom will do chip damage alot quicker, but the cost is a meter each Orb, so the balance between each character’s lockdown tools is there. Plus the fact that spiral doesn’t take hits as hard strider, so with strider it is encouraged to be IFC as best as possible, and same goes with Spiral, or any character for that matter imo.

to sum up what im saying sprial needs patience and spacing skills, but strider needs excution and quick thinking skills

most players don’t have patience so it’s easier to kill them with strider/doom because that team is always on top of you and if you don’t do something right you die because strider gets good damage off of orb/doom pin downs, compared to the damage recieved off of spiral sword/drone lockdown. however at a high level spiral is in a sense harder to deal with because it requires patience and reasoning to get in on her( thats why alot of players get owned by duc), compared to how fast strider dies off a short, short anything by practical anyone.

imo strider and spiral are both balanced in these game, there is nothing cheap about what they do.

btw i used the term “top player” loosely as some people could be mistaken for a top player when they are not.

any comments?

333

well said. i couldn’t say more.

334

honestly i think strider is only used more than spiral because he looks more beastly and overall has a coolness factor to him. hes always a crowd favorite as well. as far as difficultly to use i wouldnt put one over the other. i would just say if your talents are on defense/patience, spiral would be best. if you have more of an innovative/aggressive style, strider is more for you. spiral is better IMO because she fits this game better. strider is a greedy little fuck in a game that requires partners working together. strider demands all meter on his team. striders assists help no one. spiral on the other hand provides meter and has a pretty damn good chipping assist. overall she fits the game better.

i remember when duc was on top with valle in so cal there were a lot more spirals, ricky probably had the second best spiral. a lot of people were on that bandwagon though. hell i remember one tourny valle beat duc with spiral against ducs msp lol. i think theyre both very difficult to use in these times of instant gratification that the gods provide but can hang well.

335

Pretty much agree with the above - but battery wise cyclops is probably the best unless you have someone like cable who can limit him doing hks (then BH,Omega Red, spiral, storm, Ruby etc…)
More pro’s for Omega - d/f Hp launcher range, good corner combos, 50/50 mix ups after doing a coil - drain - toss into air.
I’d put omega red just behind 2nd tier peeps like WM, Dhalsim, Rogue.

336

Not sure what it’s called,but I see it with vids that have Magneto in them.Don’t know if he’s the only one who can do it or not.How do you cancel an arial rave and hit the ground;then come back up and hit them again.Or is this just something he can do?

Side Note:My current team is Sent.,Captain Commanda,and Juggernaut.Should I replace jugg with someone or is this a good team?

337

juggy on point, place in storm and you got santhrax, place in cable and you got scrub, place in BH and you got watts. hmm. what else. pretty much the same concept with sent/commando on point. i’m presuming you’re really good at sent/commando or sent/juggy, it’s really damn hard to make a comeback once sent it dead IMO. commando/juggy or vice versa. place in a good character for a team like that.

338

I am new and have no idea what team I should start playing with.

I am typically an SF3 player and just moved next to a MvC2 machine, so I decided to start dabbling in the game a bit. I think its a fun game overall but the entire team dynamic is completely new to me. I played MvC a ton, but I was young and only at a very casual level.

I’ve been reading up on standard technique stuff and I have been learning all that slowly. My only problem is I can’t exactly pick a team I want to stick with. I guess I could just play your standard Sent/Cable/Storm team that I see everyone playing, but I would much rather play a team of characters I know. As far as tiers go (which seem to be more obvious in this game than in SF3) I have no idea where all the characters are, aside from who I see used in the finals at Evo

Thus far I seem to enjoy playing The Shotos, Captain America, Captain Commando, Cyclops, Gambit, Hayato, Iron Man/War Machine, Jin, MegaMan, Morrigan, Sakura, SonSon, Spidey, Strider, Tron and Wolverine.

I mix and match from these characters when I play but I have been wanting to stick to a team recently. Any suggestions on good teams from this small group of characters?

339

Well, the best way to go, until you get really really serious(or not, depends on the player), is to pick a character that you really like playing with, one of the four gods, and a good assist character. You won’t really go wrong with that most of the time.

I’ll probably post more stuff later I think.

340

Shotos - IMO the only one worth playing is Ken, he has a good anti-air assist and decent offense.

Spiderman/Wolverine - both pixies, w/ nice rushdown game, both very fun to play in casuals, but aren’t nearly as good as the top-tiers.

War Machine/Iron Man - Not as good as the top-tiers but worth playing IMO. Look for match videos w/ ComboFiend, he uses Iron Man (www.zachd.com/mvc2)

Strider - he’s pretty good but only if you have Doom w/ AA assist in your team (which sets up the Strider-Doom trap). Add Sentinel to the team and you’ve got Team ClockWork.

Captain Commando - a lot of people use him, he has a great AA assist.

Cyclops - good AA assist, he has an infinite. I’d rather use Iron Man or Cable instead of him but that’s just me.

Check out this thread at Video-Opera. It has lots of good info on the top-tiers characters as well as some other characters.