Oh shit! I can’t wait to play Rumble Fish 2. Orville sounds beast! Well hopefully anyway.
The problem is other characters need meter to guardbreak in a single rush, Greed needs none.
Not to mention that his normal chains seem to due a lot more than other characters. For example, in that Greed match vid j1n did a CH launcher flame thing (QCF+SP?) into j.LP> j.LK> j.SP> j.SK… and it did like ~150 damage. I was like :wow: If greed can do that much without meter, than I’d love to see how much damage a simple jump in chain combo into advanced attack and then into another attack chain. Maybe it’s just me, but Greed’s normals seem to have Orville like power (if not more), with chains. If there’s any doubt in whether Greed should be playable, than we should just hold a vote. I really just don’t want a ton of beginner players flocking to greed because his game and mixups are so simple. It would be hella boring then.
Hmm ending with SK isn’t that good beccause of throws. If he doesn’t cancel the SK, throw is free.
Using AA for guard break isn’t very good for the same reason.
If you look at the guard bar when you string from an AA, it doesn’t do guard damage. But if you delay your attack after the AA, it will do normal guard damage. The problem with this is that when you delay, it takes the opponent out of blockstun and they get a free throw.
So I’m not sure if AA guardbreak is actually that good.
Leebee: Nah I was just correcting my post about guard break guessing games with SK.
If this was directed at my post, than I was just reffering to j1n’s, match where he used that combo; all of the hits were guaranteed. Sorry if I misunderstood your post.
Jason, look dude. Greed can’t Guard Break in 1 string or a single rush.
you’re saying he can String, and trick someone into freezing for a second and letting Greed do another string. (if im reading right)
Thats stupid. Thats incredibly stupid. Any character can trick a character into “Freezing” for a second and continuing to block.
which means ANY character can gaurd break in a single rush with no meter.
Trust me Aran and Garnet can gaurd break in a single rush with no meter if you mindgame your opponent into blocking too much.
Honestly LEARN DEFENSE.
There are Impact Breaks, Dodge, Triangle Hop (down Dodge), super jump, DP’s, Defensive Supers for a reason.
I just played Kevin all day today, he’s gotten lots better at dealing with Greed.
Onto another subject:
Hazama:
This fucker has the potential to be Top Tier.
His rush string is pretty easy, and it cancels into his Stance Change. From his stance change he can cancel back into string (like a Johnny Mist Cancel like Garnet). Once he Gaurd Breaks you, you’re fucked.
It takes good defense to stop him.
Also if you try throwing pokes out during his stance change, Hazma can cancel into Kick attacks which all launch you and is untechable. Thus it makes a free aircombo.
Hazama also comes equipped with a fireball reversal. This screws over that little fagit Typhon.
Sheryl: Not top, definately not bottom. She has good pokes, no real good strings, her entire game revolves around setup into bomb into massive damage. She is runaway character at best, while you can poke rush into a setup bomb.
alot of characters have no meter Counterhit only 120~150 dmg combos.
some don’t need counterhit (Hazma/Zen/Sheryl)
Dunno about Hazama’s stance cancel being as good as Garnet’s, it makes him go so far back…also, can you cancel stance LP into anything?
He can connect his CA after the rdp+K thingy. He seems alright, fun to use though. Jason are you gonna be around this Sunday? I wanna play this damn game for some raisin.
I wanna play RF2…poor RF1 Orville… :sad:
That’s true, but Greed seems to be able to do more damage from a advanced attack string into juggle. I just gave that example because all you did was a launcher into an air string. Hella easy. Anyways, Greed is a boss character so I don’t think he should be playable, even if he doesn’t seem broken. Him being playable in the aracade with a code doesn’t change the state of things. He is a boss character, and simply put, game designers always make them overpowered in some area. If you want to play as greed in the tournament, why don’t you let me play as Gill in Third Strike or Shin Gouki in CvS2. :rolleyes: It’s the same thing. As I said before, we should just hold a vote among the people who are entering the tournament. Greed players can just practice with a secondary character just in case we decide not to allow him. I hope you know that I have nothing against you j1n. :pleased:
BTW, Aran vs. Kaya match in TRF2 is up on www.ko-hatsu.com!!! I can’t watch it right now, but hopefully it looks good!
lol D: but you can pick Violent Ken, Zero, Mars Alien, Akuma, and Evil Mr. Karate with secret codes in SVC, and they are all tourney legal!
Were reading this thread from the beginning(as any other TRF related thread on the internet), but only now I find time to post some random thoughts about all the discussion.
Ok. First of all, about some console exclusive characters and Greed. Imho all of them should not be banned from any USA tourney.
Console exclusive characters should not be banned because of the following:
- There not a lot of TRF arcades in USA, and arcades are already dieing for a long time. Even EVO is on consoles now.
- Nearly all USA TRF tourneys will be on PS2.
- Sheryl is in TRF2 and Hazama supposed to be hidden boss or something.
- A lot of people will see the game only on console and did not know anything about that Sheryl and Hazama are banned from tourneys, and will train them. When those people will visit tourney and see that their chars are banned, they will just turn and walk back home(<-Really bad for tourneys).
- Without Console exclusive chars there only 9 fighters to chose from. And youll hear a lot of bitching about small cast.
And now about Greed
Is he really powerful? Seams so! Is he so powerful to totally dominate all other cast and win all the tourney? Definitely not!!! IMO he is like Grant in MotW, also selectable boss char, with strong normals and good specials and supers, but he is not number one. And Grant isnt banned from Tourneys. So Greed also should not be banned.
And now about Tiers. TRF is out on PS2 only for 3 weeks, and it is impossible to sum up the tier list properly. It seems that a lot of people think that TRF is all about guard brake strings, rushdown etc. And present tiers seems to be made from that point of view.
So tier list looks something like this:
Top: (no order)
Greed
Garnet
Aran
Mid High:
Typhon
Kaya
Zen
Mid Low:
Boyd
Hikari
Low:
Orville
Viren
?:
Sheryl
Hazama
() j1n
And now lets look at the results of Japan Carol Tourneys:
1 Tourney: 1 place - Kaya
2 Tourney: 1 place - Hikari
3 Tourney: 1 place - Zen
4 Tourney: 1 place - Garnet
5 Tourney: 1 place - Hikari; 2 place - Aran; 3/4 place - Kaya/Garnet
Only one top tier character win a tourney. And Mid, Low tier char wins two!!! There definitely more need to be learned about TRF, and some char need more effort to put in them to make a real TRF tier list. So the point is that Hikari and Kaya is definitely higher in tiers. It seem that Hikari counters could stop a good rushdown game.
Some last thoughts. To make TRF popular we need more vids on all main fighting vids sites (aka ComboVideos, GFB Hub, Video-Opera etc.) and j1n vids. is a really good start. Respect :tup:!!!
And we also need more tourneys, and RomanCancel tourney and additional wining pot is also a very good thing.
P.S. If somebody willing to upload some TRF match or tutorial vids but dont have place to host them, just PM me. I am administrator of biggest Russian Fighting Games Portal www.asof.ru (All Sides of Fighting), and I have about 100-200MB of web space for vids. I can host your vids for 2-3weeks or may be more(and will give links to GFB HUB and Video-Opera).
I am willing to host TRF match and Tutorial Vids on romancancel.com
while we mainly focus on Guilty Gear. we are trying to hype up The Rumble Fish as well.
Thats why I really love yore site. :tup: We need more vids!!!
Vote now for The OMC5 First Rumble Fish Tournament in America, Who should be Tourney Legal? at: http://www.romancancel.com/forum_viewtopic.php?53.4526.
Thank you very much for respecting my wishes. I really appreciate it. :china:
Anyways, FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVEN’T WATCHED THE RF2 MATCH VID, WATCH NOW!!! :party: The link is http://scn.web2.jp/trf2_1.lzh You need WinRAR to open. Here’s a small outline of the impressions of the game that I got from the match. (+'s are good, -'s are bad)
-
Sprites get bigger when you move closer together. The camera pans out when moving apart. The transition is small, but the sprites still look really good.
-
Aran still owns. Some of his special moves have new voice acting, but I’m not sure if it’s a different actor. Vanguard strike has a cool purple energy aura in his punches.
-/+ Reused stage. The good thing is that the music is a lot louder and the trains don’t come as often/ don’t sound messed up. The stage looks a little bigger.
-
Better sounds and hit effects. The sounds are a lot better, all the way from hitting the floor ( It’s the only thing I hate about RF1) to hitting a wall to the hit sounds… They are all more lively and have a better feel and fit to them. The hit effects IMO look better than RF1’s
-
Presentation looks really good. The lifebar seems really snazzy, and the announcer is a japanese woman instead of that annoying guy. There aren’t anymore stupid coments when you do a combo. (I lied. I just hate that guy. COOL!!! :lame: ) Advanced attack, OA, DA, and CA all activate a cool backround. A.A creates a piercing red line as you dash forward, OA is a red backround, DA is blue and CA is green.
-
Meter is better. Three per guage seems better. A.A’s are toned down, which is good. OA’s cost the same as A.A; one stock. Defensive maneuvers are much more able now with 3 stocks. Building up to CA is sorta a challenge. Neither of the chars used one, so I don’t know if they are worth it. Hopefully, the CA’s will do 50+% by themselves. It’s practically the only way to make them worth it. Comboing into OA’s is actually worth it now. THey do good damage even when scaled. The only gripe I have is it looks like the Def. Guage charges a bit too slow.
-
Gameplay no longer revolves so much around guard break and c.LK’s. Due to more defensive meter, it stops the relentless assault better. This doesn’t mean that guard crush games are gone, but the game is better paced now, IMO.
I’m really psyched for this game. Like… seriously. My biggest fear is if one of the new characters would be broken. I hope that this game will be reasonably balanced where almost all can compete. It has great character designs and play style diversity, so I think that RF2 in the future could be sorta like VF in that you could pick a character that you like, and stay with that character and learn to do well. It’s kinda hard to explain, but I think you’ll get the gist of it. If I remember any points I forgot, I’ll edit my post. Happy day guys, happy day.
@ Valen: A page back or so I explained why Hikari is better than Kaya. Kaya doesn’t have much. I’ll give some more examples if you want. Same with Boyd; if the tier list is the player at the highest level of skill than Boyd IMO is high. He has the ability to exploit those mixups and this is a big impact for Boyd who can capitalize on it more than perhaps any other character. I’ll clear some stuff out if you don’t get it, but I’m a bit tired now.
BTW… Do all characters have 400 life point HP? I know that Aran does, but I’m not sure about others. People who have the game should test that crap out.
Hmm it looks like there is some type of rising options from the ground. At one point Aran techs up instantly, and Kaya rolls a couple times. Looks kinda like SFA3 ground rolls.
Also new rounds start really fast! I like that.
wth!
It’s like it suddenly turned into an SNK-alike…
…the announcer voice, the zooming in, the look of the gameplay…
It’s a bit hard the judge, but I’d like to know the details of the meter building… how much more does it take to build “one” of the new Offense Gauges than to build “half” of the old Offense Gauge? It certainly seemed to take longer in terms of play time, but technically I wonder what’s the difference.
About the only thing which really bothers me is how fugly the new banner animations are (e.g. Round announcement, etc.) The old ones were simple and clean, the new ones are pointlessly large and clunky. Yeah, it’s a tiny thing, but tiny things like the announcer saying, “Cool!” gets some other people ticked
So when they make a KOF with Rumble Fish characters, will they call it KingFisher?
www.rumblefish2.com hosted a TRF2 tourney. And they even have a video of final battle between Mito & Aran. The video looks just grate(imo batter than any previous one TRF2 vid).
Heres the link for tourney bracket -> http://www.rumblefish2.com/trf2_match_01.html
And here is a link for vid -> http://www.globetown.net/~may_upper/onira(mito)_vs_kogat(aran).mpg
It seems that air dodge attack plays a huge role in high-low game now. And it is very easy to combo from it. Also in all rounds Mito gets 3 stocks of the offense gouge.
By the way, according to Iggy from MMC, on last week TRF1 held the second place in Japan console game sells chart. And the first in PS2 games sells chart.
I dunno what exactly are the matches posted at Game Carol from (tourney/casual/how many entrants, etc.), but it looks like there’s MAYBE 8 players.
Seeing as how one of those players (kogat) is in that TRF2 tourney, and that Game Carol is the only other place on the internet that I know of that hosts TRF match videos, I’m going to guess that even in Japan, TRF isn’t that popular.
The double-edged blade! Which may or may not apply to TRF:
Game is popular -> no reason to significantly improve it
Game is not popular -> no reason to significantly improve it
Hm.
Maybe the PS2 release will change that, I don’t know.
Valen, you rock!!! :tup: I was just pondering and poking around in the website, and it has a lot of useful/ interesting info about both TRF1 and 2. I never would’ve found a site like this, thanks a lot! I find the website to be pretty credible and skillful, so I believe that their tier list, http://www.rumblefish2.com/trf_text_01.html, is accurate. Here’s their breakdown. (THey used stars, I just renamed them with titles)
Top
Aran
High
Kaya Zen Boyd (TOLD YOU BITCHES!!! )
Middle
Garnet Hikari Viren
Low-Mid
Greed Typhon
Low
Orville
The biggest surprise for me was Garnet’s placement in mid. I tried to piece together some reasons, and after reviewing over some stuff, I guess it is plausible. She probably has a bad matchup with a few characters, which detracts from her over all standing. I guess I still don’t understand why Kaya is better than Hikari, but it probably has to do with a bad matchup as well. There is text at the bottom of the list, probably with some explanations, but my Japanese isn’t that great. I’ll try and work on some translating in my spare time. The last thing to deal with the website, is that don’t despair totally, Orville players. It turns out he can compete!!! http://www.globetown.net/~may_upper/trf_down.htm
This has two match vids, one of them being an Orville player beating Z.X, a pretty skillful Garnet player. (He’s won a few of the tournaments there) Even though the Orville makes a few mistakes, the key seems to be patient. Wait for the right time, and catch your opponent off guard. His low dropkick, D/F+SK seems to be fast enough to punish fast/high priority moves. (It beats out Garnet’s OA) There’s other stuff to be seen, but you guys can watch it yourself.
BTW, can someone try and see if this combo works with Orville?
Hammer Fang (GC HCF+P) [j.SP/j.SK] c.SP> Advanced Attack> c.SPxxQCB+LP (Or if QCF+LP, P does more)
The brackets indicate an optional part. Hopefully he can get something like this off of Hammer Fang instead of just c.SPxxQCB+LP
As for RF2, first: the official Dimps page, http://www.dimps.co.jp/rumblefish2/index.html, is really being renovated and improved. They will somehow have 3 System Explanation pages, and the first page includes everything about the system that we already know. Kinda makes me wonder… The downloads section will also be up soon so =) As for the match with kogat, Mito looks pretty impressive. Although I think he could’ve defended better her pressure, the match was good. I hope people aren’t thinking that this is anything broken, because it’s not. The only reason that the use of high dodge and attack seems new, is because the only other source of videos (Carol) has the players not using it at all. I don’t think the videos are a very good indication of tiers, or how RF1 should necessarily be played. It’s almost as if they figured out all the buttons, and then learned what advanced attack and defensive maneuvers are. It’s kind of sad seeing that most of them don’t use any cancels or critical arts given the chance, and in some cases, the matches were sorta scrubby. So, while high dodge attack may be more useful, kogat (A game carol player) probably had a hard time dealing with it, because in his matches that we’ve seen, high dodge is barely ever used. He has a really solid Aran game, it just seems that he didn’t learn an aspect of the game or something. BTW, he has his own Aran strat site, http://www.pixy.cx/~taf/infinity/. It’s only for RF2, but a lot of it could probably apply to RF1. It’s japanese only, so I’ll try to decipher some stuff. More good news. Apparently, there’s a RF2 cabinet REALLY close to where I live, and whether it’s a beta or something, I’ll be sure to bring observations and comments and crap. I’m sorry that my posts are always so big… 