Just think about it this way. If by th elucky chance a OHKO move hit 2 Pokemon, basically it’s like saying a 3rd of your team now just went away because of pure luck. The best way to prevent such problems is to not have the moves usable in the first place.
And before OHKO moves were completely banned in GSC, my Poliwrath was REALLY evil.
Poliwrath
Whirlpool
Mind Reader
Fissure
Icebeam
Mmmm…
the problem is not just gamefreak but nintendo as a whole loves to make their games as “fair” as possible by adding random luck to their games. Not just in pokemon but in Mario Kart Mario Party etc. they like to force luck to make it as fair as possible for everyone.
Ahh Gamefreak their motto must be “fuck skill, force luck!”
I also don’t like the crit system. Double damage and Ignore stat modifiers.
For example, I calm minded with my slowbro 4 times only to have it die to a Celebi who already was at -6 special attack and got a crit from leaf storm.
I played my cards perfectly well, but then luck just walked right through the door for that guy. It should be double damage or stat modifier ignored damage, both is overkill.
Or for example, I was watching a friend play, and I’ll never forget this. He started out with smeargle. Smeargle used encore then block then substitute, baton passed to zapdos, boosted with agility, passed to lunatone and used cosmic power to boost defense and special defense, then passed to scizor and sword danced, and maxed out all his stats +6 except special attack. His substitute had broken already. After that he started to sweep. Then the guy sent out infernape and hung on with focus sash, he used overheat, got a crit hit, Scizor died and he came back and won.
Well for that Infernape vs. Scizor situation, I just ran a quick calculation on that and it seems that max sp.atk Infernape with Blaze and STAB Overheat vs. +6 Max Sp.Def Scizor has a max damage of 324 while Scizor has a max HP of 344.
So Scizor should be able to survive assuming he is investing heavy into HP.
I don’t mind Crits, but I think if you make Crits ignore defensive stat modifiers, it should also ignore offensive stat modifiers too.
Crits ignore offensive stat-downs and defensive stat-ups.
Complaining about that kind of luck in a game where it is inherent is silly. You know the risks going into it, and you run stall sets at your own peril. When you have a Pokemon in play for that many turns, it’s bound to happen eventually.
I think Evasion Clause and OHKO Clause have long outlived their necessity, actually. I’m pretty set against banning things that aren’t already banned in Battle Frontier settings or already have a basis in Stadium clauses (Sleep Clause, etc)… in addition to Wobbuffet in singles. Fuck that guy.
Stealth Rock sucks, yeah, but I’ve played some games with it soft banned and I absolutely cannot stand the amount of counterswitching that takes place in a match like that. That and SR’s overcentralization are the biggest reasons I stopped playing singles in general, actually.
Because the DS and DS Lite do not support WPA.
Yeah, I don’t like the idea of a SR ban (or the DT/OHKO ban for that matter), but the thing really does need a tweak in gen 5 to make it not a staple in every team to compete. It’s such a no brainer move as it is. At least with DT and OHKOs, they require reliance on luck and/or a decent setup to make it even work well. SR, on the other hand is just finding out which one in your team can learn it. It’s that necessary.
I do find it ironic to hear about luck whining here where we bash Smashboards on a daily basis for the same exact thing, though.
Ahhhhhh, I want to play again but I’m not switching between WEP and WPA again, that shit is bullshit! And the Nintendo WiFi USB Connector? Don’t get me started on that piece of trash…
As much as I’d like loads of these tweeks and gameplay adjustment, I highly doubt it will come to fruition. Wishful thinking though…
I’m interested in seeing what Gen V will bring. That Earthquake Spiral ability (boosts attack when a pokemon is knocked) looks devastating if a good sweeper got it.
Ahh that’s what I figured, still sucks. I don’t own a DSi nor want one right now, I like my GBA slot.
The only thing that bothers me about luck situations is the hax the comes along battles. Sometimes the only thing that would stop my pokemon is a random critical that just HAD to happen when I thought it would, instantly turning the tide of the match. Hax in pokemon is ridiculous, I’ve seen matches totally depended on it.
All the more reason to not let one battle settle things then. shrugs
I wish wifi and the whole battling process was a hell of a lot quicker. Then haxx would even out because you could do sets of 3 instead of just one decisive game. As it is though, you have to set aside a good chunk of time just to complete one battle.
that’s true but usually when I play it’s against a viarety of people, not unless we re-battle with the same teams (which sorta kills the anticipation and strategies)
I’ve played competitive battles before DT was banned, and believe you me, you don’t want a game without the clause.
Considering only Haze/ Defog is the only stat changer that has works without accuracy you’re going to be living a nightmare of 2 hour stall matches and sweepers who hax the hell out of you.
Garchomp wasn’t banned just because it was an offensive powerhouse, it was mainly banned because the retarded Sand Veil + Brightpowder hax it had on Sandstorm teams. (which also cost me winning a Grand Finals in a tourney a few years back.)
Here’s an example of how broken Double Team is-
Jirachi: w/ Lefties
Ironhead
Bodyslam/ Firepunch
Substitute
Double Team
Double Team and Sub is a psychotic combo, added with the fact that phazing moves always go second, the chance of flinching is almost a certainty, if this guy comes out late game and you don’t have a phazer, you have to worry about breaking the DT’d sub just to get to the Jirachi who’s pelting you with flinching/ paralysis attacks.
Umbreon: w/ Lefties
Mean Look
Taunt
Double Team
Baton Pass
Self Explanatory. Extremely gay.
Yeah double team is really terrible. Evasion in general is just obnoxious. I must say though I used to run Sandslash with brightpowder in a sandstorm team after infinite sand had already been set up. Swords Dance to set up, then sweep with EQ and Night Slash. Sandslash has sweet defense, too, just in case it actually gets hit.
I’m going to have to agree with the above two posters. Double team clause is there for a good reason.
Just think about it as it is now. Tyranitar + Gliscor(Sand veil) holding brightpowder and with double team and substitute.
Or as the before mentioned Umbreon set.
Evasion-boosting abilities are legal even with evasion clause, and those can be plenty frustrating all [media=youtube]QUeY4TAyHzU]on their [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRwCX2KB5AU[/media].
I figure people ought to actually use Haze if it concerns them that much. No Guard Machamp is always an option too. And if it’s late in the game and you’ve lost your evasion check? Tough it out. You have to deal with long-odds and comebacks in the game as it is now anyway. I don’t see how this is any different.
Evasion Clause made a lot more sense when Swift and Haze were literally the only ways of dealing with it. You know how many DT/OHKO users made it to the final rounds of the 2010 US VGC, a metagame in which they’re legal? Zero. They are not reliable strategies, and good players don’t use them anyway.
Nobody said they were not.
>VGC
>Good players
Pick one
Just kidding of course.
Also need people to practice with on the ds, 1548 9518 6660, add me if you want please D:
I dunno, the way you’re still relying on randomness to get to a point where randomness is significantly enough in your favor that it’s worth this effort, especially in the second case, if you manage to last long enough to actually pull this off, I think you deserve the win from it, honestly. I mean, Umby’s setup seems like a “you really should’ve given your Psychic type a fighting attack” more than anything, which I’d think the bigger used ones would come with one if this setup were expected. I don’t see much else other than another staller hating life on this, to which I say it kinda makes stallers more of a risk to take.
It just seems less reasonable than it was in Gen 1/2. There’s so many ways around it now, as well as so many ways to put a stop to it before it can even get off the ground that it just doesn’t seem like the dominator it used to be. NG Machamp kinda dissolved this concept in general, and only very specific setups seem to be even viable anymore.
Perhaps come gen 5, it’ll get re-evaluated. I haven’t complained about it this gen at all.
You mentioned Machamp like he’s a cure-all, having a Machamp on your team just to counter DTers would be centralizing the metagame. There’s not many ways to counter DT and the few ways that exist require strategies that would mostly be effective against DTers and nothing else.
Umbreon can defensively resist many super effective hits… IF THEY HIT and pass to whatver character it chooses which could easily have a resist. Secondly, apart from the Focus Blast- which has horrendous recovery, what move is there other than a weaksauce HP Fighting can a Psychic type use? Aura Sphere is relegated to a few Psychic Legends and Ubers.
Also DT is a time waster of epic proportions.
Brightpowder and Evasion traits require strategy and specific situations to use effectively, and those traits are only 1 stage, so whatever benefits are still within a bit of reason.
