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981

I haven’t read anything, either positive or negative, about Joe Casey’s work on GI Joe. But from reading the letters pages in the comics, I would imagine that complainers were GI Joe fans and not comic book fans. And I mean that in the most condescending way possible.

I mean, there were letters from people complaining about the cast Casey chose to focus on (Stalker, Duke, Storm Shadow, Colton, Snake-Eyes, Scarlett, Flint, Roadblock) and bemoaning the lack of their favorite character. Please. It’s the same problem that any licensed property faces. Look at Transformers or Street Fighter comics. People are always upset that their favorite character isn’t there. The problem I’ve had with a lot of TF and SF comics is that it seems like the creators actually take the fans to heart and try to toss in everyone just so they can pander to the audience. Maybe that’s a good way to keep fans happy, but it doesn’t exactly make for good comics. And I’d rather read a good GI Joe comic than one that has my favorite character doing something in the background.

I also imagine that a big part of the outcry you mention was due in part to circumstances beyond Casey’s control. I’m sure people were upset that the first Devil’s Due GI Joe volume ended with Lady Jaye’s death. (Which was pretty crappily executed.)

Another thing I noticed in the letters pages was that some readers complained about a lack of action, or that some issues didn’t feature one of the main cast. Casey gave the Joes downtime and it’s true there was an issue where they pretty much just talked about all the crazy stuff that had happened to them, but it was strong writing that made sense and added depth to characterization. I think people who just love GI Joe probably think they don’t need characterization in their stories because they already “know” the characters, but I felt that the “talking” issue was important and added to the overall run. I also thought it was effective writing because I am not a GI Joe expert and haven’t read all that many issues. It was important to see them reacting to events and treating each other as a team, and as friends.

Casey’s run is very deliberate in its pacing, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the average person read it and thought it didn’t have enough explosions or ninja battles for a GI Joe comic. He was writing a long story so he allowed subplots to simmer and certain plotlines (Duke’s solo mission, the return of Cobra Commander) were slow burns. A lot of people have this knee-jerk reaction to “decompressed” storytelling but they don’t seem to realize that decompression is just a tool and there are merits to it. Casey did a good job heightening the tension and ramping up the drama.

There was one plotline about Snake-Eyes getting “killed” and from the letters published in the comics it seems like people were so pissed off that they quit. (SPOILER: Snake-Eyes didn’t actually die.)

I still haven’t gotten the final three issues of Casey’s run, but I thought the artist on the last few that I did read was pretty lousy. The first two primary artists, Stefano Caselli and Nelson Blake II did some very good work, Blake in particular. It irks me that so many of Casey’s works have him randomly saddled with a incompetent artists. Reminds me of Velasco on Wildcats Version 3.0, the parade of fill-in guys after Cammo left The Intimates, and Stephen Platt and Ryan Benjamin on Cable. The third artist he had on America’s Elite was just not good.

Casey’s run probably isn’t a conventional GI Joe run. It’s definitely told in a much different style than Larry Hama’s work. And compared to the Blaylock/Jerwa runs on the DDP series, Casey’s feels much more like an actual comic book series rather than a tribute to a toy collection. Casey writes the series much like he would write something of his own creation, I think, and that’s what really sets it apart. Flint, for example, sounds like a real Joe Casey character, yet still sounds like how you would expect Flint to be like after Jaye’s death.

But I’m sure for many longtime GI Joe fans, they would have demanded Casey to write “their” GI Joe. He didn’t. Joe Casey wrote HIS GI Joe. And you know what? I’m more than fine with that; I’d prefer that. Because at least he was trying to inject some heart into something that, when you boil it down, is just a licensed comic based on a kids’ toy.

982

wow, he did a Cable run with Stephen Platt? Will need to pick that up. Also was his UXM run never collected beyond Poptopia?

983

His Cable run was mostly by the great Ladronn. However, there were a couple of fill-in issues by other lackluster artists. There was one with Ed McGuinness, which was quite good. But I remember Platt did this one issue that was part 2 of a 3 part crossover with like X-Man and X-Force and that totally sucked ass, but it was okay because the throwaway artist only had to illustrate a throwaway issue.

And Poptopia was his only collected Uncanny X-Men work. I actually think his Uncanny run is underrated. It’s flawed, sure, but there are some issues that were just really good, like the annual, #400, and his last two issues with Sean Phillips. I think the weako artists on his Uncanny run really hurt, too - Ian Churchill, Mel Rubi, and that fill-in art even on his first arc. That’s just a bad way to start. Ron Garney was not in good form for Casey’s run, too.

Some of the ideas he explored (Archangel trying to use his corporation to help humanity) would later be developed in greater detail in some of his other comics, though, such as Wildcats Version 3.0.

Casey also did a really good X-Men “Year One” type miniseries called X-Men: Children of the Atom. This is another comic that got messed up with fill-in artists. Steve Rude was supposed to do it but Marvel foolishly solicited it before Rude had enough drawn, and the company didn’t wanna have delays. Even though the fill-in artists aren’t bad, they aren’t The Dude so it still feels tainted somehow. But I still recommend it.

984

I give you mad props for being as condescending as possible. <3

Let me say that I am not a long-time G.I. Joe fan. As a kid, I loved the cartoon, but I wasn’t old enough to understand it. Therefore, by the time I was able to appreciate comics, that aspect of the franchise was long gone.

With that said, I will agree with you that many of naysayers were more G.I. Joe fan than comic fan. You know, the type that buy every cover of every IDW book that’s currently published. Also, you may be right about part of the discontent being beyond Casey’s control, because much of the hate is directed at the DDP years in general. Of course, when it counts, I can’t remember what many of their complaints were. I do recall several people mentioning the use of Gen. Colton over Hawk, Flint’s reaction to Lady Jaye’s death, and “zombie” Snake-Eyes.

However, all of that is beside the point. I just wanted to know your thoughts on his AE run, because I respect your opinion. I’m much more likely to listen to you as opposed to a die-hard fan whose monthly pull-list consists exclusively of G.I. Joe titles. After I made my previous post, it occurred to me that I actually own two issues from Casey’s run. Now that I’ve read them I realize that I enjoyed his take on my favorite character, Storm Shadow. I particularly loved the firefight scene from AE #2, where all the Joes rush to cover except for SS, who opens his arms suicidally and calmly states, “There is no real danger here.” Personally, I enjoy decompressed storytelling when it’s used wisely, and I can appreciate the fact that his run was considered unconventional. If I ever run across his run in a collected format, I’d be inclined to give it a shot.

985

Haha, thanks for the respect, carny! Seriously. I respect your comic book opinions, too, and I’d probably post more on here if you did.

I don’t remember if there was a particular reason why Casey used General Colton over Hawk, but the previous DDP stories had kind of left Hawk in a certain way and I think that might have had something to do with it. Either that, or Joe Casey really wanted to write a GI Joe character literally named Joe.

I kind of feel that’s the same reason why Flint is the way he is in Casey’s run. To me, what Casey did with Flint was logical given the circumstances of the previous volume. I don’t know how the “true” GI Joe fans expected Flint to react. It just so happened that the added bonus for a hardcore Joe Casey fan was that Flint really felt like a quintessential Joe Casey character, the jaded avenger.

The whole thing with the resurrected Snake-Eyes might have been predictable (you know the most popular character isn’t gonna die just like that) but I thought it worked in context of the GI Joe universe. It actually kinda felt like Casey was writing his take on Frank Miller’s ninja/Elektra stuff. (That’s all conjecture, though, as I have no evidence to back that up. Only the tried and true trope of resurrection ninjas.) Besides, a big part of the GI Joe stories was brainwashing, and all sorts of weird, questionable, comic book science stuff that Dr. Mindbender, Serpentor, et. al would do. If the average GI Joe reader was willing to accept all that, I really don’t see what’s so hard to accept about “zombie” Snake-Eyes. (There was a nicely-executed scene of Kamakura rushing to the morgue to see Snake-Eyes’ corpse for himself, only when he got there, the body was gone. That was a fun cliffhanger.)

Yeah, I kept looking for Casey’s GI Joe TPBs but could never find a lot of them for a cheap price. I just happened to luck out on the first 15 issues. The TPBs are probably out of print. I don’t really know if IDW has the right to reprint them, or if they even will if they do have the right.

986

ok so Casey wrote America’s Elite #0-18 which is collected in 3 ddp trades: The Newest War, The Tie That Binds, and In Sheeps Clothing

I also see that Hama wrote a Storm Shadow series for 7 issues, but the tpb only collects the first 5

And apparently Hama wrote the first 4 issues of a series called GI Joe Frontline that was meant to bridge the gap between RAM #155 and Image Comics #1 but I figure I can skip that now that he’s starting over with continuing RAM

987

Also in anyone interested in buying/trading graphic novels? Here is a list of books I have for trade or sale (preferably trade):

All Star Superman vol. 1-2 (hardcovers)
The Incredible Herc: Against the World (vol. 1) hardcover
The Incredible Herc: Secret Invasion (vol. 2) hardcover
Agents of Atlas hardcover (the first one)
Wolverine: Old Man Logan (oversize hardcover)
Ultimate Galactus Trilogy (oversize hardcover)
Ghost Rider: Hell Bent & Heaven Bound tpb (Jason Aaron’s first arc)
The Flash: Ignition (Geoff Johns, out of print)
The Flash: Rogues (Geoff Johns, out of print)
Jonah Hex vol. 1-2 (current series)
World War Hulk tpb
Cable/Deadpool vol. 1 tpb
Power Girl tpb (Geoff Johns)
Crisis Aftermath: The Spectre tpb
52: The Companion tpb
Gotham Central vol. 1 tpb
The Terminator: Rewired
Sin City: The Hard Goodbye (limited retailer hardcover)
Essential Silver Surfer vol. 2
Jack Kirby’s Fourth World Omnibus vol. 1-4 (hardcovers)
Avengers Assemble vol. 1-3 oversize hardcovers (vol. 2 and 3 are very out of print)

Stuff I would be looking for:

Stormwatch - Warren Ellis tpb run
The Authority - all the tpb’s that make up the two absolute editions
Robocop tpb from Avatar
Aliens Omnibus vol. 4-5
Halloween omnibus (ddp or idw?)
Uncanny X-Men - Divided We Stand and Manifest Destiny
Any JLA trades post-Morrison except for the final two (regular JLA series only)
Wolverine Classic vol. 2-6
Any Dark Horse Indiana Jones omnibuses
Brubaker Catwoman trades

…and various other stuff

988

I used to own Hama’s GI Joe Frontline arc. I actually didn’t think that was very good. It wasn’t bad, either; just average. Dan Jurgens’ art was workmanlike and I felt Hama’s writing didn’t really evolve much from his stuff in the '90s. It’s fun if you’re a really big Hama/GI Joe fan but I honestly don’t think you’re missing out on anything special.

Interesting stuff with the lists. I think I have some stuff, too. I need to sort through some of it, though, so I’ll get back to this next time. I don’t know if I have anything you’d be interested in, though, P. Gabby. We’ll see.

989

Stuff I have for trade/sale

Spider-Man: Blue (Oversized HC)
Daredevil: Father (Oversized HC)
Batman: The Long Halloween TPB
Batman: Dark Victory TPB
Marvel Knights Elektra v. 1 TPB (by Greg Rucka, collects Elektra volume 2 issues 10-15 and the lead story from Marvel Knights: Double Shot #3)
Bad Mojo (OGN by William Harms, published by AiT/PlanetLar)
The Incredible Hulk: Future Imperfect TPB
Spider-Man and the Black Cat: The Evil That Men Do TPB (Kevin Smith and the Dodsons)
Batman: Child of Dreams TPB (by Kia Asamiya, adapted into English by Max Allan Collins)
Roninhood of the 47 Samurai TPB (by Jeff Amano and Craig Rousseau, published by Beckett/Image)
The Ballad of Sleeping Beauty TPB (by Gabriel Benson and Mike Hawthorne, published by Beckett Comics)
The Cross Bronx v. 1 TPB (by Michael Avon Oeming and Ivan Brandon, published by Image)
Darkside Blues manga TPB (by Hideyuki Kikuchi and Yuho Ashibe)
Visitations OGN (by Scott Morse, published by Oni Press)
The Fall of Homunculus OGN (by Pentti Otsamo, published by Drawn & Quarterly)
Preacher v. 2 TPB: Until the End of the World
Savage Sword of Conan v. 1 (“Essentials” style TPB collecting the black and white magazine)
Thirteen Steps v. 1 TPB (by Phil Hester, Chuck Satterlee, and Kevin Mellon; published by Desperado)

Specific Stuff I’m Looking For:

Whiteout v. 2 TPB (Rucka)
Any BRPD volumes
Hellboy v. 2-4, 6, 7, 9, 10
Usagi Yojimbo v. 4, 5, 7-11, 13, 14, 20, 22+
Invincible Iron Man Premiere HC v. 3 (World’s Most Wanted Book 2)
Ultimate Spider-Man v. 22

I may update both lists as I continue to figure things out and sort through my stuff.

990

lol somebody liquidating his jeph loebs :rofl:

THIS WHOLE POST IS BN SPOILERS
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I finished reading Blackest Night tonight. I read 5 of the trades (BN, GL, GLC, BLC 1-2) and I read the issues in publication order from the list lined on the first page of this thread. This meant I was basically switching trades every issue, but I am still young and spry so it wasn’t a problem. It was really cool reading them this way as everything actually flowed perfectly - I was surprised that even the growing black lantern power levels tracked through the mini’s in the BLC trades.

In the end I enjoyed the crossover a lot, but not as much as Sinestro Corps War or Infinite Crisis (I love both of those so the bar is pretty high in that regard). Each trade was very good; I am a big GLC fan regardless (Kyle and Guy over Hal any day) and the collection of mini’s were all good to varying degrees. Superman was probably my least favorite (but still had cool moments especially with Ma Kent) and Batman or Flash was my favorite. It was great seeing Scott Kolins back on Flash and Rucka back on Wonder Woman.

A few issues I had:

-Nekron. Who is Nekron? Why is Nekron? This was my main problem with Blackest Night - the main bad guy just didn’t seem that big and bad and I never really cared about him or knew why he was suddenly all powerful. At first when I heard the name I thought it was the Underworld Unleashed villain, but that’s NERON. I thought there was going to be some reveal telling me about Nekron but there never was. Black Hand was cool I guess, but again, not that intimidating, and then he basically disappeared from the series after the first issues.

-The Black Lantern heroes: the resurrected dead ended up not being as cool as I thought they would. They all looked the same and basically blended in after a while. Strangely I think it would have been cooler if they werent zombified. Also because they were all zombies it felt like they were all the same power-wise, like Martian Manhunter and Pa Kent could dish out the same amount of damage.

-I thought the main BN series suffered from a lack of Holy Crap! moments in issues 2-6 and even kinda dragged there in the middle…but the other books picked up the slack

-I thought the deaths throughout the series were really crass and lacking in dramatic weight. At first I thought this was okay because they would all come back to life at the end…but then they didn’t. Wonder Girl and Damage were especially bad, and while Donna Troy’s was handled well, I didn’t like to see her die.

-Did Blackest Night #8 have a gatefold in the comic? Because the trade just prints it on separate pages. If this was a gatefold and they split it up for the trade, then chalk another one up for the incredibly stupid, lame, dimwitted morons in the DC trades department.

991

Yeah Blackest Night #8 had a gateway that was about 4 pages in length IIRC.

992

Thanks, Zeph. I certainly do try, but you give me far too much credit as I haven’t read the magnitude of comics that other SRK members have.

Now that I understand the context of “zombie” Snake-Eyes, I’m convinced the complaints were coming from hypocritical idiots. I completely agree with you concerning some of the more bizarre aspects of Hama’s original run. I can understand the initial shock, but didn’t those people realize what they were reading? I think it goes without saying that returning from the grave is a pretty common aspect of this medium, especially in a mainstream comic like G.I. Joe. I guess they forgot about the “death” of Storm Shadow, and later Cobra Commander, in ARAH.

I can elaborate a bit on the Storm Shadow series. It was originally intended to be a monthly title, but it was cancelled after 7 issues. What’s confusing is that the 4th issue wrapped up the first story arc, and the 5th issue was a filler story with a new artist. It raises the question, if DDP was going for complete story arc, why didn’t they just include SS #1-4? And if they weren’t, then why didn’t they throw in issues #6 and 7? I should read it all again, but from what I remember it was pretty good. However, I wouldn’t really recommend it to just anyone, unless you’re a big fan of Tommy or Hama in general.

By the way, I realize that I may have come across as insulting to G.I. Joe fans, but this was not my intention. I only wish to insult those who can’t tell a good comic from a bad one.

993

ARAH picks up right after Larry Hama’s G.I. Joe #155 and ignores everything else. Kind of like those Marvel forever comics. You probably know this already so not trying to sound like a prick or anything…

My memory’s a bit fuzzy but I’m not sure if all of the above has taken place prior to #155. Unless you mean the death of Cobra Commander #1 who was replaced by #2, but I don’t even recall if they ever got into how CC #1 came back. Still ARAH hasn’t really stressed which CC it is behind the mask to kind of matter. He’s either Billy’s real father or he isn’t.

Again my memory’s pretty fuzzy on the details so there’s a pretty big chance I’m wrong…

Enjoying ARAH but I never really got into the Devil’s Due comics. I tried in the beginning, but certain things like having it take place in our time forcing Viet Nam to get taken out of character’s backgrounds and… Aging Bazooka into some old fat retired dude are things that turned me off from their take on it.

Larry Hama has the right idea. Have it take place right now picking up right where a certain issue left off, don’t age anybody and use current technology. It’s not the real world anyway.

To be fair Hama probably wouldn’t even go this route if not for the other comics doing the exact opposite.

I’d be down to check out Casey’s run since Zephyranthes speaks highly of it though.

994

AVENGERS: THE ORIGIN HC
Written by JOE CASEY
Penciled by PHIL NOTO
Cover by PHIL NOTO
The true story of the Avengers is revealed right here! This extravaganza reveals previously untold details of the historic first
meeting of Thor, Iron Man, the Hulk, Ant-Man and the Wasp! You only THINK you know the full story. From Joe Casey (AVENGERS: EARTH’S MIGHTIEST HEROES) and artist extraordinare Phil Noto! Also includes a special reprint of AVENGERS #1.
Collecting AVENGERS: THE ORIGIN #1-5.
Rated A …$24.99
ISBN: 978-0-7851-4356-7
Trim size: oversized

995

It ain’t about the quantity of comics you’ve read. It’s about the quality. I barely bother with the Marvel and DC threads now. It seems like a lot of people there are reading lots of titles, but so many times when I read people’s posts there, I end up asking myself, “Do I really care?” And the answer is usually “Nope.” So that’s why I don’t post too much anymore. It kind of blows me away that people actually seem super excited for a lot of the more “mainstream” superhero books. Like… Deadpool? All this ridiculous Internet love for Deadpool is almost enough to make me hate him. I’m almost surprised Marvel’s managed to give him, like, 3 monthlies, a limited series, a couple of team books, and weekly guest appearances. Do people actually find Daniel Way’s writing entertaining??

A couple days ago, I finally finished off the last three issues of Casey’s run. I think even the aftermath of what he did with the resurrected Snake-Eyes showed more thought than what the average writer would do. (Snake-Eyes was shaken by being resurrected by a ninja cult, which in turn was secretly being led by an evil ninja. So he ends up taking a break from using his ninja training and he ditches his typical ninja threads and wears his old school “commando” getup instead. Is there a way to read into that as anything other than a giant shoutout to the history of GI Joe and Snake-Eyes? I don’t think so.)

If this were your Facebook status, I would LIKE this. Thumbs up, soldier! Hahaha

I would hope that it’s better than X-Men Forever and New Mutants Forever. Has Hama’s writing style changed or improved? I haven’t read anything of his since that four issue GI Joe Frontlines arc he did for DDP earlier this decade. Even that reminded me of his early ‘90s work. (Although Dan Jurgens’ art probably didn’t help my perception, either.)

Yup. It’s good stuff. It probably ain’t gonna change your life or blow your mind or anything, but it’s some damn fine GI Joe comics.

Heck yeah, P.Gabby! I am definitely gonna get that baby. Have you read his other Avengers minis? Both of those were straight cash. Prime examples of how to tell stories based around continuity but updating them logically and making them more emotionally satisfying, with more detailed arcs. (In other words, the Anti-Jeph Loeb.)

996

Yeah ARAH better than Marvel’s Forever stuff. All though this is very easy to accomplish.

It doesn’t seem like Hama’s writing style has changed at all. Reads exactly like his older G.I. Joe stuff, just with Iphones.

997

Zephy wtf are you smoking? Do you need to go back and re-read the Marvel GI Joe series? Hama’s writing was leagues better than any other writer working at Marvel at the time, and it’s not even close.

998

Yeah, I probably do need to reread them. I don’t own any of those comics anymore, so I was just talking out my ass and trying to remember what they were like the first time around. Like I said, the most recent Hama comic I had was that GI Joe Frontline 4 issue arc with Jurgens… And that was average.

Also, I was practicing my master baiting skills by comparing Hama to CLAREMONT to see if I could draw you out. :slight_smile: Hahahaha PERFECT FLAWLESS VICTORY

999

I’m confused. All I’m saying is that CC and SS have died in the past, only to be revived later. I’ve only read a handful of issues of ARAH, so I’m not entirely certain about CC being replaced either. I was just going on the fact that he has been calling Billy his son. However, I am positive that Storm Shadow was shot to “death” by the Baroness in ARAH #47. A mere 5 issues later, Tommy appears in the Pit and explains that as he was being shot, he used a ninja technique to simulate death. He then describes how he was nursed back to health with the same device that created Serpentor. This was after SS had made peace with SE, of course. I have a theory that Hama was trying to shift him into a more heroic figure so that his death would have more impact, but it backfired and made the character even more popular than before, much like Elektra.

I figured you’d say that. Perhaps what I should have said is, I haven’t read the quantity of quality books that other members have. After I dropped Daredevil, I found myself in the same predicament as you. I stopped posting as much, because like you said, most of the activity in this forum occurs in the Marvel and DC threads. Though, I will say that I read some of those “mainstream” super-hero comics you refer to, and not all of them are bad.

I already hate Deadpool. In fact, the current level of DP oversaturation makes me sick. Before the hype, when Daniel Way started writing the current volume, I was onboard for about 10 issues. I didn’t know any better, having never read any of his work. Thankfully, I realized that the book was never going to get any better, sold the books, and funded my comics for the next month or so. I’m not surprised at the amount of attention the character is getting at Marvel, since his popularity is reaching a cult-like status. To answer your rhetorical question, if they do find Way’s writing entertaining, I pity them.

I’m all for a commando Snake-Eyes. As far as ninjas in G.I. Joe, my philosophy is, the less the better. The reason being, not only is it just gimmick overkill, but it makes the genuine ninjas less unique when everybody is suddenly rocking swords and shurikens. If I had it my way, I’d only use SE, SS, Billy, and the Red Ninjas. I’m still on the fence about Kamakura, I want to like him, but I’m not so sure.

I’ve enjoyed ARAH at IDW so far. Yet, I think I may understand what you’re saying about Hama’s style. I wouldn’t say it’s really all that bad, just a bit antiquated in some aspects. Some good examples are the excessive explanations and utter lack of pronouns in the dialogue. Seriously, go read them, every character refers to each other by name in every panel. It’s really too early to tell, but overall it’s been a pretty fun read. For the time being, I’m just enjoying a part of my childhood once again.

I didn’t realize we had so many G.I. Joe fans on SRK, perhaps we should make a thread?

1000

Okay I think I just misunderstood what you meant before. I thought you were saying that Hama magically brought people back to life sans explanations when he started his run, and from what I can tell / vaguely recall he just pretty much picked up wherever he left off.

I could probably just wiki all of the answers up regarding CC and SS but I’m having too much fun reading the G.I. Joe TPBs and don’t really want to spoil the fun I’m having thanks to my swiss cheese memory when it comes to anything other than Marvel Superhero comics. :rofl:

Speaking of, Classic G.I. Joe TPB #9 comes out this week. YO JOE!