I cant…all there is to it…
Work takes precedence…
hey dark geese, you have a good match for shiki? i’m actually playing with her, with moriya/ai/kisarah as my main characters.
i actually use shiki in a very straight forward style, just poking and putting some combos and setups with the qcb+c stuff… her qcb+D is a good way for putting presure, and put you in a ofensive situation, if my opponent block the qcb+D i do her directions inverse grab, this trick works really well, specially in defensive opponents.
but, you know more advanced stuff? cause shiki works really simple in comparison of other characters of the game. i don’t know if she is low tier or not, maybe she is really bad and that’s is the reason of the lack on info.
thanks in advance, and sorry my engrish 
A matchup for Shiki…hmmmm…Purify has Mai and thats a decent matchup…shes good in her own right overall…
And oh yeah about the NEC8 crap, I’m getting all those vids back because unfortunately its taking too long…I have a good idea how to upload them myself and now I can finish what I started even uploading the LOST EVO World SNK footage…
Sorry about that guys but I’m taking control of uploading vids from hear on out… Shiki is not bad at all…
Check the first post of the first page we got links galore with you for information…Purify wrote upm some stuff on her. If you are gonna use her like that then I guess she’s your battery so have someone that can take advantage of that battery…
GAY BODYBUILDER COSTUME PARTY: JOSH’S MINI-GUIDE TO KING LION
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qcf+A (a.k.a. DINOSAUR) is awesome. Nullifies projectiles, beats everything pretty much, gives him frame advantage on block, links to a bunch of moves on hit. Just try not to use it too close, as it is vulnerable to GCFS.
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To go a bit more in-depth, DINOSAUR links into the following things:
Midscreen: Sweep, C version super
Corner, close range: hcb+P, D-Assault, A version super
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The A and C versions of the super do the exact same damage with 3 hits, though C has the potential to whiff 1 or. A is preferable within range since it has less startup & recovery and ALWAYS gets the full 3 hits, but C is an amazing long-range punisher - it becomes unsafe to jump, throw projectiles, or do any number of other things when he has meter.
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The A super has a few frames of startup invincibility. Seems to get stuffed more often than not, in my experience, but on occasion it’s worth a shot.
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The counter is very good - works on high/mid physical attacks and is his only Super Cancel. Odd trick with this: You get more total damage the EARLIER you super cancel.
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He has a lot of anti-air options, such that his intended anti-air specials (dp+P and qcf+C) are actually my least favorite of the bunch. Crouching C has great priority and a wide hit area, the super is good (especially C from a distance), qcf+A and hcb+P hit jumpers surprisingly often, and the counter leads to big damage.
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Is there ANY use for dp+P, come to think of it? It takes about 3 minutes to recover and he has other moves that do the same things.
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He has very good pokes, but they recover slowly. I tend to go with Crouching C most often since, as previously mentioned, it’s also an anti-air. Once they’re discouraged from jumping, your other stuff is good to go.
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His most notable strength is his high/low game - comparable to Dudley’s, I would say. Here are his high/low B&B’s…
Low, at midscreen:
Crouching B -> f+C xx D-Assault
Crouching B -> f+C xx qcf+A, link to sweep or C version super
Crouching B -> f+C xx hcb+P (with no meter, this may be better to keep your momentum)
Low, in corner:
Above combos, plus the below series which works at very close range -
Crouching B -> f+C xx qcf+A, link to hcb+P/D-Assault/A version super
Overhead, at midscreen or corner:
f+C -> f+A xx hcb+P
f+C -> f+A xx A version super
The overhead combo into super is very strange. After the f+A, you have to go back to neutral THEN perform the super - don’t ask me why, but the hcb+P doesn’t require this. The way I do this is to tap f+C, tap f+A, super - very easy.
- Keep meter on hand for defense! Since King Lion lacks a truly solid reversal, rolls and tag counters become even more important. If you successfully roll through an attack, it’s safest to punish with the Crouching B combos outlined above. This may be your best bet after a GCFS as well, though I’m not sure if you would be in range.
And that’s about it for now! I would try and do some matchups, but don’t have the experience with him yet. Perhaps something for another post…
-Josh
Thanks Josh, I’ll surely put this on the first page for other people also.
qcb D is unsafe. so is qcb C. They can GCFS and punish both, severity depending on character. Of course, most people you’ll find to play in this game won’t know this/be able to do it.
Anyway, because her stuff is punishable if the other guy knows what he’s doing, Shiki’s goal is to poke with moves like far B and cr.A and other moves to punish things until she gets a knockdown or a qcb C…which leads into her reset. Basically, they fall from whatever dive you hit them with (qcb C > C followup > dp > the dive) and have to face one of these things: command grab (very hard to escape this), close D (which is an overhead) or level 2 super (if they are attempting to poke you out of the other two). All of this nonsense does a good bit of damage.
She has excellent mobility and can punish many things from very far away, good D. Assault combos (from the overhead - close D > two hit close C > DA etc) and the nasty command grab. Life steal is a plus too. She’s most definitely not low tier, but she’s not S or high. If you keep her out and play safe, she can’t do much. Her only low option aside from the dash stabs is cr.C, which isn’t too great.
:snka: Silent Storm also links into itself, to keep up the pressure.
Nope. :snka: King Straight does more damage the closer you are. :snkc: King Straight does more damage the further you are.
I don’t think it actually has any invincibility. He can be completely stuffed by low attacks. It just has a big hitbox and massive priority. If you get stuffed, the :snka: King Straight is completely negated but the :snkc: King Straight projectile will come out regardless as long as he’s not hit before the end of the start-up animation.
Not necessarily. If you SC on the 1st or 2nd hit, you miss out on a little extra damage.
Maximum damage is off the 3rd-4th hit.
:snka: Earth Chopper is extremely good at catching jumpers early at mid-range. Sometimes people will carelessly superjump once they’re safely outside of Silent Storm range, only to be caught by the Chopper.
:snka: Silent Storm is too slow to catch early jumpers.
Crouching C BLOWS. It’s slower than Moses and has all the recovery in the world. It doesn’t do good damage, doesn’t lead to any kind of mix-up (easily tech rolled even if you somehow manage to hit with it), the hitbox is queer, and has virtually no priority.
Shishioh’s lack of a reliable anti-air is one of his biggest problems.
Early jumpers can be hit with :snka: Earth Chopper, but if you whiff you’re in trouble.
From mid-range, Beast Blow or Nightmare Counter can do well but they both carry a risk. Beast Blow can be stuffed by several characters and Nightmare Counter can easily be baited if you get too predictable.
If I was going to use ANY normal for anti-air it would be Jumping C.
From full-screen though, Shishioh’s options for anti-air are very good, however. C King Straight should always be used if you have meter. Without meter, you have Silent Storm or Earth Chopper. The problem is that smart players aren’t going to be jumping from full screen if they know anything about Shishioh.
OTG and early anti-air, of course, but that’s mostly for the A version. The C version is useless, except for maybe as anti-air for a characters with a long floaty super jump like Mars People and um, Mars People…
The A version is also guaranteed after f+C or f+A in combos.
Dark Geese, this is why I would not archive posts immediately: It’s worth it to see if anyone else comes around to correct mistakes and offer additional advice.
Shiki, I knew you would have something to say, and thank you for it! Didn’t know about some of this stuff, like the super damage. I remember testing the counter -> super cancel and I swear that 1-2 hits did the most damage, but OK, I’ll take another look.
I have had great success with crouching C, but that might just be a function of the characters I’ve played against. Thanks for letting me know, I’ll have to keep this in mind for FR.
About the wakeup super, I recall kenmastersX using the A version as a reversal and sometimes beating things with it. Maybe it just has a tiny bit of upper-body invincibility? I actually didn’t know that about the C version though, that’s pretty neat.
I should have clarified - the A version Silent Storm seems to catch jumpers LATE in its animation, and I’ve had this happen fairly often. Nice little bonus.
Once again, thanks a lot, and I will edit my post a bit later.
See you guys at FR,
Josh.
From what I can gather, I think the blue flames from the super have an auto-guard property. I remember the attack actually hitting him, but the autoguard sound came out.
His fist might have some autoguard, maybe even up until his elbow…but the rest of his body definitely does not.
However, it comes out quickly and has extreme priority so sometimes the A King Straight can effectively work as a reversal. It’s just not fail-safe, however.
What makes Kaede a one trick pony?
The one trick is you gotta nail Light Saber…thats why hes a one trick pony…Thats the goal…combo into LightSaber.
Oh… I thought you meant something like he lacks options/mixups.
But with his command throw, the ability to move freely after his ground projectile, command roll, easy BnBs, what makes higher lvl players give him a tough time?
Bottom line is thats all gonna take a while to kill with… you still gotta land the comamnd grab into Light Saber somehow via combo or something.
Not saying Kaede is good because overall he’s more solid than Tung, but hes still a one trick pony.
You’re right about one thing though… he is a noob killer. And it is a hassle trying to land the light saber.
Is the discussion on Shishioh done yet? I’m planning to upload it into the wiki soon.
If I wasnt so busy lately I’d chip in overall with Shishioh, but I’ve been too busy lately to even test anything.
I would call him a neccessarily a “One-trick pony”. To me a “one-trick” pony is somebody like Tung…who NEEDS muscleman to have a chance at beating anybody, or Ai who has her corner loop but absolutely nothing else.
Still, I understand what people mean by Kaede…his only way to do top-tier damage is to land the Level 2, and that should be the only goal of any Kaede player. He’s still pretty well-rounded though.
His problem is that he’s basically a slower Terry/Kyo/Iori but with far more recovery on his moves. Which is why he ranks behind Kyo/Iori…they’re all-around chracters but they don’t even really need to use supers to do very good damage.
As I recall, Kaede was considered top-tier by some when the game first came out, I think because his qcb+C is invincible and people found it annoying. Once they figured out how vulnerable it is to GCFS, though, he dropped in a hurry.
qcb+C isnt totally invincible…because the last hit of it I can DA, I can DP, go into Knife Stance to dodge and attack, and do other things to beat it…if it was totally invincible all that would either get beat or go right through it.
Totally invincible think NeoWave- Young Geese’s Deadly Rave.
Kaede has mid-level invincibility (and low???) up until around the 2nd hit.