great information here, i didn’t know you got a 20% boost from n-groove…
can someone explain what stock is?
stock is the levels you get in the n-groove meter the red dots
N-Ken is crazy also
whoa im really loving n groove so far, stock breaking is awesome and ive gotten used to run.
:lol: but ed is 1 of the biggest scrub i see u soon boy:evil:
i think whats cool to do as well is run then roll then throw, you can do this atleast once per match… it usually works for me.
no i’m the biggest scrub i need some skills help me i suck. this is mukai under smoothcrap’s name tellin the truth about this low class bitch:lol:? kang you no i own you for free with my yam :evil:
Reading this thread makes me want to go back and play my N Groove Terry/Joe/2 Blanka team. Its probably my best team and one of the most fun for me to play. I can throw in Athena there as well.
Ive got a new business team Kyo/ken/sagat on N-groove iono if i should use C-groove tho
the only reason im picking N over C is becuz the low jump helps kyo and well we all know how cheap low jump hk is for sagat what do you guys think?
C-groove Ken >???N-groove ken?
Even so, I’m 99% sure that even Kyo’s counter roll will guarantee him a free combo in most of the above situations if you do it fast enough. As for counter rolling a Sonic Hurricane safely, just make sure to counter roll at the point where you’re sucked into Guile.
I don’t think I’ve even been sucked back into it if I do a backwards counter roll midscreen. In the corner you can’t do that obviously, so you’re kinda screwed unless you have a long roll (which Hibiki does).
Here’s a little checklist I whipped up real quick to determine whether a character benefits from N-Groove or not:
-Does this character benefit heavily from low jumps? (+10 points)
-run? (+10)
-roll? (+10)
-roll cancel? (+10)
-Add 20 points if your character benefits from some combination of either run/low jump and roll/roll cancel. Add 25 points if your character benefits from 3 of the above. Add 35 if your character benefits all 4.
-Does you character benefit from counter roll? (+5, +10 if your character is Blanka)
-having level 1’s? (+5)
-does your character guard crush well? (+5)
-does your character benefit from having a (kinda sorta) stored meter? And/or build meter well? (+5)
-does your character have a level 3 to level 1 combo? (+2)
-an alpha counter to level 3 combo? (+3)
70-100 points: Your character was tailor-made for N-Groove. After getting used to their N-Groove persona, using them in any other groove is going to feel very weird and really limiting.
50-69 points: Very good in N-Groove, but mostly likely better suited to a different groove. Either that or the character is just conflicted overall and needs a combination of subsystems that doesn’t exist. Don’t let that stop you from using the character in N-Groove though.
0-49 points: You should probably pick a different character if you want to use N-Groove. If you really must use that character, you should probably switch grooves.
As you can tell from the point assignments above, the key strength of N-Groove isn’t a single feature like A-Groove and CCs. It’s the combination of many subsystems that other grooves don’t have, namely the combination of run/low jump and roll/RC. No other grooves have a mix like that, and some characters benefit a lot from it.
Even though I made this checklist/point ranking in like 5 minutes, after running some characters through it I think it works pretty well. For example, Chun Li and Iori are the pretty much the poster characters of N-Groove, and they score a perfect 100 and 90, respectively. Characters who are known not to be too hot in N-Groove such as Guile and Cammy, scored 22 and 30.
A prime example of a conflicted character design would be Blanka. The ideal Blanka would have low jump, RC, and dash. Since that combination doesn’t exist, Blanka doesn’t really seem to have an overall “best” groove.
N-Bison
Hmmm I think I’ll do one for Bison since he’s my favorite character.
Notable RCs -
Pyscho crusher - Use this to RC through fireballs. It’s not a decent anti air attack especially against a low-jump or grooves without air protection(N,S,A).
Scissor Kicks- These are really good, you could almost do these over and over if you were at the proper range.
DP Burning palm - Doing this on wakeup seems pretty good, although I don’t know the frame disadvantage if there is any. It also works decent as anti-air.
+0 Good, but not 10. This is really debatable.
Notable Running attacks-
Forward - This has good range and works good against crouching opponents.
cr. forward - great running attack because it comes really quick and has decent range. It can also combo into another one or a standing strong(at the right range and character size of course).
strong - Really good attack against a normal to large sized character with alot of range and priority.
Sweep - Supringly this works alot, really surprisng and tons of range.
RC DP+P - good and very easy to do.
+10
Rolling -
Roll super! Seriously. If you could some how roll behing your opponent the pyscho crusher super is almost guaranteed. His roll is kinda slow which makes him pretty much average in this area.
+0
Low Jump - RH , nuff said it is a really good low jump attack with range and power. Running to this is also very good and it’s something I use anytime I use him in N/S. +20
+10
Counter roll - Even though his roll isn’t that quick his combos are so good if you can get it go for it. But If you have lvl 3
+5
lvl 1s: scissor kick is a very good comboable super.
+5
Guard crush: Not quick enough to guard crush in my opinion but he is decently close.
+0
Building meter - builds meter quick with cr. mk and lk scissor kick.
+5
Alpha counter - setting this up is easy and bison is downright dangerous when he breaks stock. Arguably the best N-groover in this field.
+5
Score : 60
Even though bison has really good running attacks, his dash is much better. he has touble keeping pressure,(because he’s slow) and because of this and sometimes you’ll end up turtling which is not good for N. Bison is better in C and Much better in A, but overall N-groove works pretty good for him.
N Zangief
Very good lowjump attacks and sets up his throwing game: +10
run adds to tick throw game and should benefit anyone with a command throw: +10
My opinion but I think roll, though not fast, helps him out a great deal vs top tier. Roll > throw/super is scrubby but still works sometimes and K/P don’t have that option and require much more work to get in. I think he might actually cover ground faster after SPD than his run, but not sure. I’ll say that P/K gief vs yamazaki is no fun but rolls helps out alot: +10
RC lariats and 360 moves are all very good: +10
+35 bonus
Lvl 1 FAB is awesome and does 3500: +5
the rest can be argued about. A counter roll used in the right situation leads to a throw but it may have limited usage due to slowness. I dont think he’s particular good at GC. Benefit from meter storage and/or good battery…? Hard to say I think. Don’t ALL characters benefit from stored meter? It’s definetely more flexible than 18 seconds of rage. But I’d leave it out in case.
But anyways, total score: 80, and that is the lowest it can be. Does that sound about right? Seems a bit high as I don’t think he deserves the full 10 for his roll or his run but definetely for his other primary attributes. That bonus is crazy.
lemme do a few… i feel like contributing today :wasted:
Iori
- yes, lj.HK is beast, along with empty low jump -> c.LK/scum gale mixups. he has great damage potential off of low jumps without burning meter (best n-groove battery). +10
- yes, running after fireballs is awesome, as well as his running light attacks, great counter hit setups/rushdown abilities. +10
- yes, best roll in the game hands down. +10
- yes, RC rekkas all day, fuck you sagat. +10
- bonus +35
- yes, best roll in the game and easy punishing combos. +5
- no, his level one is decent, but i’d rather save the meter and do fierce rekkas.
- yes, in my opinion. +5
- yes, c.MP is sweet for gaining meter, and he can save his meter for counter rolls and stock breaking to guard crush. +5
- yes, but its completely impractical. +2
- no.
92 pts
Yamazaki
- yes, lj.MK and lj.HK work well with his zoning game. +10
- definitely works with his ticks into headbutt/grab super. +10
- his roll is fast but doesnt have the range of iori’s, but of course roll -> RC headbutt/grab super is tight. +10
- RC snake arm and RC command grab. +10
- bonus +35
- counter roll is good with yama, his roll’s length is average but still worthwhile, counter roll -> lvl3 grab super is ridiculous. +5
- lvl1 grab super is awesome. +5
- great at guard crushing, especially with run. +5
- i would say no here, yama is a much bigger threat when he has broken stock.
- no
- no
90 pts
Why not explain how I have my whole N-team setup?
Kyo
(Battery 1st; User 2nd)
Small jump? Yes, +10.
sj.strong is really hard to beat, and sj.d+fierce is a great overhead. Makes it really easy to empty jump into c.short xx rekkas too.
Run? Yes, +10.
Used more for rushdown than covering distance quickly. He also has a good dash in other grooves, but you’d be using him differently in those situations.
Roll? Hell no, 0.
Slow, crappy roll, easily punishable. Hope you don’t screw up on an RC…
Roll cancel? Yes, +10.
While not as safe as Iori’s, Kyo’s rekka chains still are annoying to deal with (especially the high/low mixups). RC launching kicks makes for anti-air fun as well.
Bonus, +25.
Counter rolls? Of course, +5.
In Kyo’s case, you can punish to the tune of well over 3000 damage (launching kicks), well more than you would have got from using the stock for a level 1.
Level 1s? No, but +5 anyway for stock break damage bonus.
Kyo doesn’t need Level 1 supers. All he needs to do is to better use stock to perform combos that do more damage than his Lv1s.
Guard crushing? Yes, +5.
You can take off 60 points of GC meter with stock broken rekka chains linked together. If it’s against P-Groove, there’s nothing they can do about it if your timing is good.
Meter building? Yes, +5
It’s easy to get into someone for them to block your special moves, which gains a lot of meter. Rushdown characters are the best meter builders in the game, after all.
Level 3+1? Nope. 0.
AC to Lv3? Nope. 0.
Kyo’s score: 75
Maki
(User 1st; Battery 2nd)
Small jump? Yes, +10.
Maki’s big sj.roundhouse and kinda-overhead sj.fierce are just sly setups for 720 supers. Very little you can do against it.
Run? Yes, +10.
Perfect for hiding command runs.
Roll? No, 0.
Although there are plenty of uses for it, since Maki’s roll has less invincibility then all the other rolls in the game, it’s not worth it to incorporate it into her game realistically.
Roll cancel? Yes, +10.
RC command runs give you a free in anytime you want it. RC distance punches prevents them from getting a free in anytime they want it.
Bonus, +25.
Counter rolls? Of course, +5.
cl.fierce (or cl.strong safer) into distance punch does at least 2000 damage. A little bit less then a Level 1 super, but the momentum shift is always worth it.
Level 1s? Yes, +5
A good solid standard punch super, a kick super that connects from a good distance away, and ye olde 720.
Guard crushing? No, 0.
Maki is good for keeping people out of the air and on the ground, but she really doesn’t have any good GC strings that can be threatening.
Meter building/storing? Yes, +5
Quick characters build meter well, and Maki does it. She’s more of a user, however, but she can still get it back rather well. She is more of a threat with meter, though, so if you have lots of it, it’s better.
Level 3+1? Nope. 0.
AC to Lv3? Nope. 0.
Maki’s score: 70
Hibiki
(Anchor 1st; User 2nd)
Small jump? Yes, +10.
sj.roundhouse into running slash or overhead. Good sj.forward too, I think.
Run? Yes, +10.
Perfect for hiding running slashes.
Roll? No, 0.
A rolling 60 stun character is destined to see lots of pretty birdies. Hibiki should be more worried about people rolling against her.
Roll cancel? Yes, +10.
RC running slashes and RC overheads are really tough to deal with. If someone was invincible while moving forward right at you, you’d have a hard time too.
Bonus, +25.
Counter rolls? Of course, +5.
cl.strong into running slash into slash back (or super) is the big punisher. Then again, since any character can counter roll a blocked distance slash and punish you, perhaps this score should go back to 0…
Level 1s? Yes, +5
Use after overhead connections and after a crossup running slash for easy damage.
Guard crushing? No, 0.
Pokers ain’t crushers.
Meter building/storing? Yes, +5
More of a storer than a builder. A Hibiki with lots of meter has multiple chances to land the big-money Level 3 super.
Level 3+1? Yes, +2.
…although it’s more for showing off then for any real damage opportunities.
AC to Lv3? Nope. 0.
Hibiki’s score: 72
All three of my team scores in the 70s. I have a pretty tough-to-beat squad here (even against the K-Sagats and A-Sakuras of SoCal) because they have a hard time dealing with what N-Groove can do. The fact that my entire team works so well in it make it a great one, I think.
N-Bison
Not claiming to know or believe any differently, but how does this compare to the (apparently) widespread opinion that N is Bison’s second best groove to A, with K being a close third?
Or does it just mean that Bison is only just above average in anything but A?
Re: N-Bison
Bisons best grooves:
- A
- S
- C
- N
- K
- P
Actually I think S is bisons second best groove, with C closely following, if not exact. The dodge and low jump give him so much mobility, he dosen’t really need the rcing imo. Bison is not average in every other groove. Bison is far from average due to his high damaging combos. I really think a non bison could compete in the top tier category. But this is the n-groove thread not the bison thread.
i’d say N-vice is really underrated. N-groove is her best groove, and i’ll run through the little check list…
-Does this character benefit heavily from low jumps? (+10 points)
A: absolutely. low jump fierce has great priority, plus can be comboed into a fierce shoulder from certain distances. low jump short is also difficult to DP on reaction and can setup the RC nail bomb (her hcf + k command grab) or low short mixup. +10
-run? (+10)
A: yes, more than dash. although her dash does crossup downed opponents, after vice’s B&B, running into her jumping short to crossup makes it a very ambiguous crossup. it also helps to keep vice’s pressure game on better than dash, because vice is best up close and isn’t really a footsie oriented character. +10
-roll? (+10)
A: yep, vice’s roll is short and quick. +10
-roll cancel? (+10)
A: DEFINITELY. vice can’t be played very effectively without RC’ing. RC shoulder to blow through fireballs and as an AA, RC command grab, RC whips, they all are essential for vice to either score the knockdown or get damage. +10
+35 because vice benefits from all 4.
-Does you character benefit from counter roll? (+5, +10 if your character is Blanka)
A: yes, since her roll is short and fast, her counter roll can setup grabs or B&B combos to punish usual stuff counter rolls can punish. +5
-having level 1’s? (+5)
A: yes. as long as you have a stock, vice’s kick super is always a threat because of it’s great range. or just break stock, level 3, it’ll work once in awhile. +5
-does your character guard crush well? (+5)
A: not really. vice doesn’t have any really good block strings or running moves to abuse.
-does your character benefit from having a (kinda sorta) stored meter? And/or build meter well? (+5)
A: yes. with a 5 hit B&B and constant pressure from low jumps and RC’s, vice is an excellent battery. +5
-does your character have a level 3 to level 1 combo? (+2)
A: nope.
-an alpha counter to level 3 combo? (+3)
A: nope.
TOTAL: 90. vice is solid, more people should play her in N-groove. C-groove is decent at best, and she does have some interesting setups in A-groove, but her bladekick CC is too difficult to do consistently (the tiger knee’d ones on the corner), so N is her best bet.
peace
A lot of the Vice stuff is on point except…
This actually doesn’t work. The 8 frame recovery time on low jump attacks cannot be canceled by either normal moves or rolls (and therefore, RCs). Unless her low jump short is pretty deep, the only real mix up she can do is low jump short, then 1) grab super, or 2) wait for the jump then counter. Even if you do low jump short and then land and do low shorts, the opponent can still jump out due to low jump recovery time.
But yea, N-Vice is truly underrated. High-mid tier imo.
I’m gonna vouch on that testimony based on my visit. I’m sure Buk will rep her at Evo.
Seeing is believing 
lol i use her in my p-groove 
but she has alot going for her, if she had some good medium kicks/punches she would be the same as Iori: great battery, not-so-good super, etc.