The New Elena Thread

Well, if you have meter, your best bet would be either:

  1. Finish off the round with some rad EX combo.
  • If you use SA2, do your most damaging SA2 combo, which I THINK is J. Hp / C. Mp XX Brave Dance (12 Hits, 73 damage). I’m sure if I’m wrong, the Brave Dance crew will help you out with that. :stuck_out_tongue:

  • If you use SA3, check out the combos section for her most damaging midscreen and corner combos.

  1. If you use SA3, Do Healing and then a non damage combo. As for that, you’ll need options that don’t use meter. Here are my notes on that:
  • Her most damaging combo without meter is J. Hp / C. Mp XX Hk Scratch Wheel (5 hits, 48), but this is really random; sometimes, the last hits of the Scratch Wheel don’t connect, and J. Hp tends to knock the opponent away a lot.

  • The safest bet overall is J. Hk (both hits) / C. Mp XX Lk Scratch Wheel (4 hits, 45 damage). This combo doesn’t really have the random factor that the above one does.

  • If you don’t have time to do anything fancy, Elena’s a simple, quick combo you can do is C. Mp XX Hk Scratch Wheel (4 hits, 35 damage).

In the end, it all comes down to preference. I think that if you for some reason stun your opponent with Elena, the chances are that they’re so low on life that you can finish them with a combo (whether it uses EX or not, though I think it’s best to try it without EX if you think it can happen). If you’re GONNA use Healing, your follow up will depend more on how they got stunned. If you stunned them with a knockdown, do Healing the moment you hit the ground and then rock a jump-in combo. If you stunned them with something like a Back Roundhouse, do Healing and go for something quick.

Hey, maybe I’m crazy, but can someone tell me why SA1 isn’t very effective in comparison to SA2? Does it connect really sloppy, or is it the lower damage, or what’s the deal? I just thought I’d discuss it, because if at all possible, I’d like to find out what SA1 has going for it instead of just writing it off. If there’s nothing that clearly puts SA2 ahead, I think I’m gonna research the effectiveness of SA1. (EVEN THO SA3 IS TEH BEST LOL!!!)

The main thing I can think of other than damage is that SAII Jumps out to connect on people. Combofiend used that feature of SAII to punish and chip people…

I can see that…I’m gonna test out how SA1 works from max range and shit, cos if it really doesn’t hold a candle there, then SA2 has it beat clearly.

SA2 outranges SA1 hard. Not to mention SA2 goes over a lot of low attacks.

It is too difficult to get all of the hits on SA1 to connect, IMO.

SA1 sucks, plus random EX combo notes

Yeah, so I tried out some stuff with SA1. SA1’s first attacks will whiff a STANDING opponent and farther ranges. The amount of EX you get in comparison to Brave Dance is minimal (one extra EX move) and the rate at which you gain EX isn’t so fast that it warrants using it (you get an ex move in exactly one less whiffed B+Roundhouse. How’s that for exact? :P)

This reminded me, though: EX Spin Scythe can miss crouching characters at far ranges, especially on crouching characters that are SHORT. I was teaching my friend the basics of the game, and he wants to start as Makoto…Well, something I noticed while sparring with him is that Makoto almost NEVER gets hit by it when crouching. There are troubles with it in far ranges for MOST characters, sure. But I’m talking about comfortable ranges.

So, I decided to experiment with that, and I looked for various weird properties when trying to combo C. Mp XX Ex Spin Scythe.

Here’s a list of characters that are difficult to hit with the combo when crouching:

Yun
Yang
Makoto
Oro
Ibuki
Elena (damnit, lol)

Here’s a list of characters with strange, specific problems:

Necro & Twelve - It’s pretty simple…Necro and Twelve seem to be shorter than average characters when crouching, but taller than the people I just mentioned above. You can still hit them in the range I tested, but it seems like they’re still hard to hit within comfortable ranges. Take caution.

Dudley - This is weird…It’s not a problem of hitting him while crouching, but it’s a standing problem. You know how when you hit someone with C. Mp XX Ex Spin Scythe from a little far away, Elena sort of ‘catches up’ to them? Well, sometimes at farther ranges, Elena DOESN’T catch up, so the last hit of the Ex Spin Scythe will miss. My hypothesis is that it has something to do with how fast you cancel it; basically, this means no hit confirming this combo on Dudley from farther ranges.

Chun-Li - The most obnoxious problem of them all: Ex Spin Scythe just plain DOESN’T work on Chun-Li. The last hit always whiffs, no matter what you do. How annoying!

Now, obviously, SA2 doesn’t have any of these problems, making it a pretty viable solution. But, now what I’d like to discuss is this:

Of the characters I listed, which SA do you think is best to use?

It’s a kind of hard question; you don’t have this predicament of ‘certain comboability versus assured comboability and life back’ trouble with any other character, cos no other character can heal themselves. So, I thought I might ask what you guys think. It’d be good to get other opinions, cos I think I’m pretty biased in the way of SA3. Here’s some opinions of mine:

Vs Yun: Could go either way. In this match, Elena will always be aggressive, and can easily punish Yun without much meter. In this case, SA2 is a great asset because you can deal a crapload of damage to Yun without the worry of missing a combo and eating Genei-Jin, or you can sit back and make opportunities to use SA3. I think it depends on your playing style, and the style of the Yun you play against.

I think SA2 is ideal if:

  • Your style is more combo-based.

  • You’re not confident you can punish holes or mistakes in your opponent’s Genei-Jin antics.

  • Your opponent (Yun) is not very aggressive, giving you less chances to knock him down for an SA3.

I think SA3 is ideal if:

  • Your style is based more on turtling and wakeup games.

  • You’re more confident that you can punish holes or mistakes in your opponent’s Genei-Jin antics

  • Your opponent (Yun) is more aggressive, giving you more opportunities to knock him down and SA3.

So, basically, it comes down to your personal playing style, how you react to Genei-Jin, and how well your opponent knows the matchup. For me, I play aggressive til Yun gets Genei-Jin, but I’m more bold in the face of Genei-Jin than most; I really like to try and do things like poke/scratch wheel/kara throw in the middle of Genei-Jins, so for me, I use SA3. But, if you look at the TX Showdown 6 qualifier matches, Combofiend clearly did just fine with SA2 (and is even more bold at Genei-Jin than me, which I think is crazy :P). Either one works well.


VsElena: I hope I know Elena well enough to comment on this matchup. :stuck_out_tongue: It’s harder to hit a crouching Elena with EX Combos, but I think you won’t get many chances to use SA2 on the turtling style Elena. Again, I think this one comes down to the type of Elena you play against. I personally think that you should fight fire with fire, in this case: If your opponent uses Brave Dance, you’ll probably have just as many chances to land Brave Dance on them, and same with Healing/Ex Combos.


VsMakoto: I’m tempted to ask if it even matters…This match can be very easy if you play your cards right, since it’s hard for Makoto to get in. Personally, I think it AGAIN depends more on what you wanna do…I personally think that trying to get aggressive with Makoto is just playing into her hands, so I still prefer SA3. But, if you play the risk/reward game, SA2 can reap some nice rewards.


Anyways, feel free to discuss this. I think this could lead to some interesting stuff. I only commented on matches I know a little better. If you know any of those matches I mentioned well enough, post your opinion!

Yo just wanted to thank u for the thread, I’m an SA II Elena player and I must say this thread helped me out a little bit mainly on her pokes.
I just wanted to ask- which of Elena’s combos does the most stun?

dont rely on stun, her combos dont do much stun anyway

If you REALLY, REALLY wanna try stunning someone…

  1. Don’t use SA2; it does absolutely NO stun damage (I’m not saying don’t PICK SA2, but I’m saying don’t use it to stun people)

  2. Back Roundhouse and throw that shit all day

  3. If you wanna really take it to the extreme, learn to hit people out of the air with EX Mallet Smash and combo it into itself; but, I think it’s isn’t very practical.

In any case, stunning someone with Elena is not very useful, but if you really wanna do it, I think that’s your best bet. SA1 does decent stun, actually… :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m starting to get the hang of Elena but I switched over to SAII since SAIII seems to be more of an advanced super. The thing I like best about Elena is her great anti-air options, especially compared to Hugo’s. She also has a great mix-up game and does loads of damage… After messing around with her, I don’t see why she’s isn’t picked more often.

Considering that most people don’t know how to play against her, she kind of is top-tier or at least upper-mid in a sense. Not because of her skills but since most just don’t know how to deal with her, the Elena player kind of does have the advantage in most match ups. She’s either way better (in the case of 12 and Sean) or much easier to use (in the case of Ibuki and Oro) than the other characters that don’t get much play.

I think she really is a lot easier to use than most mid-tier characters, though I can’t put my finger on why.

And hey, SA2 is cool. As I stated on my first post in this page, my discovery that Elena’s EX combos have trouble on shorter characters make me believe that SA2 could possibly be a better option in some matches, anyways. It depends on how aggressive you need to be.

Man I just thought of a cool animation for her SA II, unlike her ‘ranbu’ like version.
OK thanks for the tips, and let’s not forget Elena’s kickass combo on Q:
Corner: Jumping HP–>Crouching MP–>SA II–>QCB+2K–>QCB+LK/MK–>HCF+2K/F, D, DF+HK

…and about Elena being Top Tier…nah I’d say Mid-High to High…

I can’t say that Elena is top-tier, but I really do think she can hang with the high’s.

I hit people out of the air with any version of mallet smash and it can be juggled with a scratch wheel. I don’t know how the damage is compared to what you mentioned ehre, though. I’ll look into it.

EX Mallet Smash is good for this, cos IIRC, it does the most stun, and more importantly, you can juggle after an EX Mallet Smash with ANOTHER EX Mallet Smash. For example, the combo - EX Mallet Smash x3, Lk Scratch Wheel - does about 50% stun.

Just wanted to add my two cents, having played Elena almost exclusively for the past 3-4 years. She’s solid mid-tier with SA2 and can hang with the top although any solid Chun or Ken makes it an uphill battle for Elena. I mainly rely on cr. MP xx SA2, mixing up karathrows and tick-throwing, counter-poking, and using her slide at max range. SA3 is when I want to play for fun and if I’m trying for perfects.

cr.WK can’t combo into EX Spin Scythe although i wish it did. WK in general is really useful for hit confirming into Scratch Wheel (MK). If you ever land a MP/HP/EX Mallet Punch on someone crouching link into stand LK, HK Scratch Wheel. Standing WK is also her best normal to tick, stutter step, then karathrow. St.WK at +4 frames is the only, non-meaty, grounded normal attack that gives her frame advantage.

Standing MP is my usual all-purpose, “safe” anti-air. You can wait until the last second to use it, and the opponent has to parry two hits. Otherwise cr.HP or st.MK->cr.HP for anti-air depending on what angle the opponent is coming from. B+HK is always an option, but don’t forget her jump kicks. Straight up jump HP works well and jump back MK is good too.

Standing WP and MP are pretty good anti-cross-ups or dash-under anti-airs. Sometimes you can anti-air then dash cross-under and go low or mix-up throws. Her dash cross-under mix-up works really well if you land an air-to-air j.MP->j.HP. You can also delay your dash so you don’t cross-up if you want to further mix it up.

Lynx Tail can be comboed from cr.MP. Semi-useful if you’re looking for it or if you combo into it from a jump-in or cross-up. Plus it knocks down, keeps the opponent pretty close, and doesn’t need meter. Other random tricks: chip with the LK version a couple of times (cancel it from a crouching strong when they don’t have meter or are afraid to punish), then chip with HK (after the first two hits are blocked they’ll stand up thinking they can punish and get hit with the next two).

Rhino Horn can be used as an anti-air (you have to use it fairly early). If it you can juggle with Scratch Wheel, and if you’re feeling flashing juggle with another Rhino Horn into a Scratch Wheel. Actually, here’s some random slightly difficult juggles if only to be thorough (I don’t know if they work on everybody; i haven’t tested this stuff in a while):

Anti-Air Rhino Horn:
WK.Rhino Horn (1 hit) - MK.Scratch Wheel (2 hits)
*HCF+WK, RDPM+MK

WK.Rhino Horn (2 hits) - WK.Lynx Tail
*HCF+WK, DPM+WK

WK.Rhino Horn (2 hits; distanced) - WK.Scratch Wheel (1 hit)
WK.Rhino Horn (2 hits; distanced) - MK.Scratch Wheel (2 hits)
*HCF+WK, DPM+WK_MK

MK.Rhino Horn (2 hits) - (pause) MK.Scratch Wheel
*HCF+MK, RDPM+MK

Follow-ups to an anti-air Rhino Horn or Mallet Punch:
*cr_st.MP, reset…
*cr.HK
*Scratch Wheel
*Lynx Tail
*Spinning Scythe

Her j.WP->j.MK can cross-up (the distances are kind of tough) on Remy, Urien, Dudley, Hugo, and Twelve while they are standing (it can cross up Hugo crouching, too). If you really want to be thorough or you’re going all out for damage you can cross up with j.HP and j.HK. The distances on these are pretty funky. You have to aim her foot for the back of their head and you’ll land on the other side.

I’d say picking SA2 is more geared towards tourneys and playing to win. If you’re confident in your poking and throwing ability and your ability to land cr.MP xx EX Spin Scythe combos, and playing a different style then pick SA3. If you’re looking to win by damage through supers and the ability to hit confirm cr.MP, mixing up karathrows, and different meaty attacks and counterpoking to get that cr.MP xx damage, pick SA2.

UOH link into super is buff. The damage barely scales, it’s a high attack, and you can also hit confirm (by the actual UOH itself or by linking a cr.MP xx super after hitting the overhead). Both SA1 and 2 can do this so if you pick 1 for it’s extra meter for EX juggles you can still land supers.

Other random stuff- links if you’re feeling ballsy: meaty st.HK or meaty toward + MK link into SA2; st.HP->st.HK can link into SA2 on crouching opponents (sometimes you need to hit the st.HP meaty for it to hit them crouching). Not finishing EX Juggles and using normals to reset the opponent makes for good mix-up opportunities. You can try dashing and crossing-under, or walk forward to set-up the UOH xx super or karathrowing.

Concerning match-ups:

vs. Yun - Elena’s best pokes: cr.WK, cr.MP, down-towards + HK slide. If the Yun you’re playing doesn’t get aggressive, then it just makes it easier for you but when he’s built meter and gets aggressive, he needs to get in close to do any real damage. Back + Roundhouse his divekicks or jump Fierce him which should keep you ahead. If you’re on the offensive and the opponent wants to start turtling up, karathrow to open up his shell, then use cr.MP xx SA2 to counter-poke when he starts to stick stuff out to counter your karathrows. If the Yun goes on the offensive on the ground cr.MP and cr.WK will keep him out and away from you. It depends on the momentum in this match, like if Yun lands a dive kick and knocks you down he’s in a much better position to continue his rush. If Elena can knock down (like with an EX Mallet Punch or Rhino Horn anti-air juggle) you’re in a much better to continue your mixup game. This stuff pretty much applies to Yang as well, but you’ll need to watch out for the low MK xx slashes. Don’t forget that a well-spaced HK or a UOH will go over it.

vs. Makoto - Makoto dash makes her very quick. She needs to get in and grab to do damage and start her mix-ups so you need to keep her out. WK can keep you safe, but Elena’s HK and B + HK really help her in this match. Be careful when you’re throwing out pokes because if you whiff expect a dash punch or dash grab. Once Makoto knocks you down it’s 50/50: if she goes for a grab counter with Elena’s HK. If she goes meaty st.MP or low LK block; if you block a dash punch and have meter punish with super. Crazy rushdown mix-up Makotos are tough when they’re guessing right; watch out for Makoto’s crazy stun combos, because they hurt, so if your stun bar’s getting full try to keep away or throw them to get some breathing room.

vs. Elena - mirror matches are weird. All I can really say is know Elena’s pokes and counterpokes. Focus on your ability to stay ahead with safe poking and anti-airing and try to land as much cr.MP xx SA2 as you can. Mix up your throws, your overheads, UOH, and poking low or sweeping. If you give me an idea of what kind of Elena you’re facing, maybe I can help.

Okay, this post has gotten too long. Next time I play I’m going for more anti-air Mallet Punches and try to get fancy with the juggles. Keep up the discussion!

I do agree with what you say about SA2, but I still think SA3 is a completely valid super in competitive play. SA2 really shines in its simplicity to use (in comparison to EX combos) and especially in its usefulness against short characters (you need to pay a lot more attention to who you’re fighting and your spacing when doing EX combos), in my opinion. Both of them are very effective, though I prefer SA3 cos I feel like I have more options, so long as I be careful on the offensive.

I also agree with you on UOH being dope. I’ve begun to appreciate it more, since it’s fast enough to be effective, and it’s safer than her Mk Overhead (which I only found out recently to be VERY unsafe on block vs anyone with meter), not to mention you have even MORE followup options after UOH.

I don’t tend to use her normal special moves (especially Lynx Tail) very often, cos I think they’re unsafe, and most things you can use them for, you have better options. I think EX versions of most of her moves are really good. You can do some neat stuff with EX Mallet Smash, EX Scratch Wheel makes a nice Reversal if you need it, EX Rhino Horn can catch people by suprise if you use it sparingly, and EX Spin Scythe leads to her most damaging combos.

And, yeah. :stuck_out_tongue: I think something that really gives Elena an advantage compared to other mid tiers, is that she can stand really well versus Yun and Makoto. That’s half of the top tiers. :stuck_out_tongue: A lot of Elena players on this board seem not to fear Ken (I sure do, but I’m working on it :P), so that’s another one you can tag on. Elena seems to hold her ground surprisingly well versus the first two tiers.

WK? WP? What are you jabbering about? And tiers is about characters not players

Wp - Lp - Jab
Wk - Lk - Short

Very, very true.

Ken vs. Elena isn’t too bad, but from a pure damage from supers standpoint Ken has a huge advantage. Ken’s multiple links and buffers give him way more options to get that damage, so Elena has to work a lot harder and be more tricky in this match-up. Plus the fact that high-damage kara-shoryuken combos are REALLY easy to do on Elena because she falls funny makes it even harder.

Another random trick (which is really old, but whatever, I’ve only seen two or three people ever use it): off a blocked shoto low forward, you can punish with reversal SA2 (sometimes you can be a frame off and it can still hit)–keep in mind the blocked low forward has to be within a certain range, i.e. not max range. You don’t need to fear Ken, you just have to be careful and safe against him (oh yeah, if he blocks Elena’s crouch strong he can reversal SA3). The worst is when Ken works his wake-up games on Elena, since her reversal EX Scratch Wheel isn’t that great and her backdash is a bit on the slow side and keeps her grounded the entire time; if Ken has meter he’s got tons of options to further the lead.

Random stupid Elena bait: ranged crouch strong xx rhino horn (blocked), when they stick something out to punish, you super. Not something you should be trying every round or every match, but comes in handy when you keep it under your hat.

Other random things: meaty crouch strong, meaty stand short, and meaty toward + strong can stuff some reversal wakeups. I’m not sure but I think I’ve seen Elena’s jump fierce and jump forward used meaty to stuff reversals (I think if you do it right you can stuff reversal shoto DPs, but don’t quote me on that).

target combo(mk,c.hp) - healing too good