the result is definitely not “more accurate”. this result is down to the milisecond, and as shown input lag is variable so you’d need to do lots of testing to get max min and average. my test also only shows input lag generated by the TV, which is what is people are trying to find out.
This method is a lot more concrete and useful for comparing different models of TVs.
NO, the stop clock method is not concrete.
read this:
http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/specials/inputlag/inputlag.html
it’s in german so you would have to use bebelfish or google translator.
It mentions all the different variable that can skew the results. Things like camera shutter speed, unsynchronize video card port, different camera speed, basically saying that the CRT and the LCD might actually not be showing the same image. You will be able to get an average result , but it will include the same amount of systematic error.
This is the reason you see so much different result with a particular monitor using the stop clock test.
thats like 20+ pages long… anyway first of all, camera shutter speed and differant camera speed? if your shutter speed is high enough then camera does not come into play at all. un synchornized videocard could be true, but in the end you can still get an relatively accurate avg. your test goes by frames. First of all its hard to tell exactly when you hit the button, and a frame is 16.6 ms, thats a whole lot of possible error.
though it is pretty useful to see the total input lag
There’s a flaw with your test method however.
Monitors do not output a frame every milisecond. They only change their milisecond counter every frame. Just look at digitalversus.com or any site using the crt method, instead of getting an extremely consistent result from the 60fps camera method, you get a graph with the different ms readings, then you list the min, max and average. You have to hope your 10 tests are representative of the actual lag. If this was real statistics, you wouldn’t trust 10 tests, you’d do 100 just to be safe.
For example, this is the test results for the XL2370:
http://img1.digitalversus.com/produits/36/6521/36_581_112.jpg
For 7 frames there’s 0 lag, for 2 frames there’s about 20ms lag and for 1 frame there’s 33ms lag. Lag does NOT work that way in real life. Just looking at the graph makes me want to ask them to run the test again because of the unusual results.
I’d like to see a graph more like this:
http://img1.digitalversus.com/produits/36/1761/36_177_112.gif
although I don’t actually like the result, but the standard deviation is MUCH lower in this graph than the previous one.
If the camera method were more accurate, you’d get a flat line graph. Unfortunately, that doesn’t happen. But you DO get a flat line graph when using a 60fps camera and counting frames.
So while you do get a much more precise significant digit with the split crt method, that significant digit hardly matters with the minimum where people actually care is 16ms and the results have a standard deviation > 0. Again looking at the XL2370 graph (the first one), how do I know that the 3 lag frames weren’t a fluke, and the monitor is always 0ms lag (or actually 2ms because of the refresh rate). Or how do I know if those 3 lag frames weren’t a fluke, but were actually the norm, and the other 7 lagless frames were actually the fluke? 10 trials does not take out the chance of a statistically improbable event occurring, such as a very laggy monitor showing no lag.
:tup:
couldn’t have said it better.
Another reason why I support KoshTheKoala/NKI test method because I was able to confirm and replicate SF4s frame data.
disregarding the the actual input lag I was able to confirm that Ryu’s far standing far jab, which is rated:
Start up: 3
Active frame: 3
with KoshTheKoala/NKI test method I can count exactly 3 frame of start up before Ryu hit its opponents. I tried it with other move, other characters, special moves, normal moves, vs mode, arcade mode, training mode, CRT, LCD, etc…all consistent.
Just counting frames of the move match everything the SF4 frame data had.
Now just factor in when the moves comes out after the actual button input, its pretty dayam precise way to test input lag!!
It’s my understanding that NKI had attached an LED that lights up when you press the button, so you know exactly when to start counting frames. How do you guys know exactly in which frame to count the button press?
This testing method does sound good, but unfortunately not everyone has 60fps camera’s lying around. I dunno about other cameras but I have a HD camcorder that only does 25p/50i due to PAL territory. 
Its pretty easy to see if you position the camera where you see exactly when the button is pressed.
I wasn’t trying to be a “e-bad ass”, I was stating a fact, that you fail. The fact that you so surely believe that your other LCD was lagless despite not doing any tests on it or thinking that any random LCD would have no lag like a CRT is pretty amusing, especially given the amount of information given in this thread.
exept that i didn’t say that at all, just that it had little input lag. I also said how it wasn’t precise, but it did show that it wasn’t as bad as alot of hdtvs can be. the tests versus the crt showed that to be true. though i guess i should have held off saying anything until i did crt
The Evo monitor is sold out on newegg and going for almost 400 dollars on amazon. I wonder if they’ll make more, I wanted one for Christmas this year.
The ASUS one?
So what are some ways to improve my video quality? I have the 23 inch monitor that was posted on the front page, And was wonder if game mode should be used for games. :<
Edit:What I mean by that is, Sometimes it looks better in some modes. Yet with other games it doesnt, >.>
Yeah.
Do you have the model #?
I don’t understand why you’d need it, it’s not like it’s any better than any other monitor without lag, of which there are many.
I mean I was at EVO2k9 and I played on their monitors… they weren’t impressive beyond the 0 lag.
A couple of questions:
First, is the actual Evo monitor (VH236H) the only one in the Asus line that has been tested and verified as having no lag? I ask because I don’t know if I should go out of my way to get that specific one when there are others (VH222H, VH242H, VH246H) all over the place.
Secondly, is it possible to get cable TV through a monitor like mentioned above, or any monitor (i.e. no built in tuner or whatever).
For your second question: It’s possible if you have a separate cable box that selects the channel or add a TV tuner card to your computer.
I do have a separate cable box, but how do you hook it up to a monitor?
If it’s a HD box (ATSC), it’ll most likely have an HDMI cable. If it’s a SD box, it’ll only have a coax, and you’re probably SOL.
Why do you want/need ASUS? Any no-lag monitor will do, and there are more than a few with a tv-tuner and/or speakers.
Here’s a quick test I did with the 60fps camera method on a CRT. Just to give you guys another example how accurate it can be.
As you can see it took 4 frames before the initial move came out after the input or 5/6 frame if you count the input frame and the first start up frame.
That is the built in inherent lag.
On the SF4 frame data is says that start up frame for Ryu’s far jab is 4 frames and 3 active frames.
You can see that it took Ryu 4 start up frame before hitting with the 5th frame. So its right on point!!
Doesn’t it make more sense than taking a picture of a stop watch?? I ain’t playing playing Stopwatch Fighter 4!! a stop watch can’t do standing jab…Ryu can!!!
Hey Shin, have you tested out any monitors? If yes can you post some results please?