The New Definitive HDTV Lag FAQ

Tech Talk
1981

YO wtf i was going 2 buy HDfury & now im like…hmmm. i hope the post processing stops via my rgb connection cause if not hdfury wont do shit

1982

Stay away from Sylvania hdtv’s
Preformed the camera test on my Sylvania lc195slx, results showed over 100 ms of lag.
Maybe I have factors to consider like my shitty cellphone camera, but those were shitty results, the lowest I got was 99ms on vga after tweaked settings.

I thought I’d share that since it seems a lot of ppl (maybe not on this forum) are jumping all over how cheap these are.
Back to the 20+lb CRT’s.

1983

Merry Christmas to u too.

thanks fo your input…but been there done that…with various monitors…
I posted multiply times already why I wasn’t satisfied with that method of testing, especially when I used a crt vs crt.

here’s one LCD vs CRT that I did

1984

Do you know of any CRT monitors that can handle the required resolution and have HDMI/DVI inputs?

lol

I wasn’t really proposing that anyone do this, more just pointing out how impractical it is.

1985

I think HDfury might not work so well because from some of tests people have posted, HDMI set to pc has worked better on some LCDs. I would assume that even if the test is not so accurate, if the test was done exactly the same with just the input being changed or tv mode (game mode/pc/movie) that it would at least give you the best result for said LCD.

EDIT: but I think HD fury would work great if used for a crt, since there should ideally be no lag. Although I have heard some people say some SD crts lag…

1986

SONY BRAVIA XBR 4 + HDfury = lagless SF4?

OmegaAce HDMI set to pc has worked better on some LCDs.

i got my sony bravia xbr 4 set 2 game mode. but how would you set it to pc? i dont understand. how does a digital signal beat a analog?

Does anyone have a sony bravia xbr4 who got a hd fury kit and tested by chance?

1987

http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-BVM-D32E1WU-MONITOR-WORKING-NO-HD-SDI-INPUT_W0QQitemZ310186386426QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item48388ca3fa

Gawd I wish I could afford that. Is that not the ultimate gaming monitor? It natively displays 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i; no upscaling or processing of the signal.

1988

That basically seems like a Sony Wega FD Trinitron without a TV tuner, though.

1989

Well, the HD Trinitron TVs were native 1080i/480p, so 240p/480i signals got displayed as 480p and 720p signals as 1080i. That thing spits out whatever signal it gets without upscaling it.

1990

i need some feedback, wanna run a ps3 through hdmi with a VH236H

will this work?

and will i experience any lag?

thanks guys :love:

1991

can’t say its the ultimate gaming monitor unless its been tested…I don’t think anyone have used one for gaming.

1992

i know this has prolly been crossed before but

does this monitor VW246H perform identically “lag free” as asus VH236H?

and is HDCP support even necessary?

thanks guys! :bgrin:

1993

Some Samsungs can rename the input from HDMI to PC and that will change the settings.

I believe the signal being analog or digital isn’t what the lag is about, it’s post processing

taken from yahoo answers:
“HDTVs all must subject the input signal to a variety of processing steps. These include up-scaling, downscaling, deinterlacing, Etc. Some of these require looking at several frames of the signal in order to prevent errors from frame to frame of the displayed signal. Also, the processing itself is quite complex and takes time. Let’s take a simple example. Most 720P sets are actually 768P. How do you figure out how to add 48 lines to the picture, not to mention 85 more columns? You can’t just stick them on. Figuring how to do this frame by frame takes a lot of time. So, between when the first frame hits the processors, and the first one leaves to be displayed, there will be a delay. A frame refreshes every one sixtieth of a second, so it doesn’t take too many frames before the delay becomes noticeable. An interesting experiment would be to see if there is a noticeable difference in delay between a 1080P game displaying on a 1080P set, where the processing should be minimal, and when it’s displayed on a 720P set.”

1994

:u: yeah I’m aware that it’s all post processing. Hopefully my setup doesn’t have that in that input. I have put it on gamemode and also took of motion enhancer off and I have seen that I can do my links much better. Well I’m going to purchase and see how it runs. Worst case I send it back.

1995

Dont by the fucking HD fury unless you know your TV cuts post proccesing thru vga FFS people

1996

Truth.

I think the only real and proven model that VGA has advantage of is the samsung A650. (correct me if I’m wrong)

and plus using VGA sucks cause it make the image not as sharp as using a digital connection, It makes the image soft and cloudy.

Even the taito typeX2 allow you to use DVI(digital signal) to make the image sharper on the arcade cabinets.

1997

Yeah, like I said before VGA cord for my 360 actually increased the lag on my Samsung.

1998

on mine it didn’t do shit but make the image softer…SF4 still looks better than the ps3 version though.

1999

I was in Japan recently and picked up the LG W2363V “gaming monitor” because I liked the sound of the Thru Mode and 1:1 features.

Here’s the product page:
http://www.lge.com/products/model/detail/w2363v.jhtml

I’ve hooked up a ps3 to it which worked effortlessly and was playing around with the various modes and their input lag. You can definitely tell a big difference with Thru Mode on, though interestingly you can’t use 1:1 with Thru Mode, but 1:1 alone on the PS3 was still very quick.

I did some quick photo tests using a D40 @ 1/800sec against a viewsonic 19" CRT and here are the results. With Thru Mode on I am consistently getting a later frame than on the CRT, which seems impossible to me… Any ideas? I tested using 2 different flash test sites and lots of photos, these are just a sample.

Thru Mode on, I noticed it was almost always 0 to -20 ms, aka about a frame ahead of the CRT on both test sites I used… This seems impossible…?

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9803/dsc6075h.jpg

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/5939/dsc6076.jpg

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2172/dsc6077rg.jpg

With Thru Mode off, and 1:1 turned on, I noticed a fairly consistent 13ms/1frame or so delay:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8092/dsc6078.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1928/dsc6079.jpg

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6634/dsc6080.jpg

Overall still getting used to this monitor but I think it’s safe to say if you can get it (which may be a big if) this monitor in Thru Mode is definitely well suited for fighting games and FPS on consoles to those sensitive to input lag. It should be noted the picture quality is noticeably worse in Thru Mode but hopefully you expect that, as the function is to turn off post-processing.

On a related note, while I was in Japan I was comparing to more expensive monitors and noticed that the high end Mitsubishi Viseo monitors also have 2 game modes that sound exactly like Thru Mode, turning off all post-processing. These monitors are in the $800-900 range versus the $250-280 LG though. (For example, http://www.mitsubishielectric.co.jp/home/display/product/mdt221wg/index.html)

2000

jesseBoKe, I was looking for more information about that monitor whenever it finally came out. Those tests are pretty impressive, but I hope you don’t mind if I ask a couple of questions about it. You said that you connected it to your PS3 but then talked about both Thru Mode and 1:1. Is there a reason to not use Thru Mode? Does it force a strange resolution, or is it just that the image is not cleaned up in the least?