i was gonna say all this eventually HAHA, we should of waited TILL AFTER the NEC to show them this haha, see now im not sure if we can get very much money out of them now…
ill change the worlds thoughts of NGBC with my tung… WATCH ME…
You’re not going to get ANY money out of me because I’m not losing to Tung, not because I won’t play. I don’t ever talk shit like this but you got all this senseless hate for us and these dreams that are going to be crushed to pieces on December 3rd. :lovin:
Dark Geese: The setups don’t matter because there aren’t any good ones. This is literally the only move he has thats good. So, since there isn’t anything else to worry about, nobody is going to be “tricked” into getting hit by it. I don’t have to block the dive kick to avoid it, which by the way has no range. If I block the C, f+C xx MM, I’m not taking any damage, and Tung has to get back in. So he has to jump, which isn’t fast enough to worry about, and come in via the ground, which is a problem because of his short limbs. Combine those with the fact that nobody is going to jump into a MM = a useless move against most characters.
Tung isn’t going to hit a MM, and therefore won’t live long enough for the Level 3 super himself. So…use somebody to feed the meter to him, and then you have a super that will never hit because it’s too slow, but instead blocked for 25% and do half guard. That would be good for a guard crush except for the fact that Tung has nothing to consistently chip away at the guard meter. So, in essence you’re using a level 3 super to take away 20-25% of life that can then be recoverable.
Again, fear not the Tung. :wgrin:
you think kaede or hotaru or mr. big OR marco can do all of this??? haha… ill show you, i dont have any senseless hate man, i really dont, im just extremely excited and very confident ^.^ SERIOUSLY, my Q IS KNOWN, but my tung isnt that much YET, it will be after NEC, really, to tell you the truth, my good Q vs ANY makoto is retardedly in YOUR favor, you and i BOTH know that, youve seen the videos of what makoto can do to Q, BUT you have NOT seen a tung that half-knows what he is doing against the top tiers… thus, im ALOT more confident in my tung against your hotaru big team or whoever you play, then my Q against your makoto : \
See Cajunstrike I see what you are saying but if YF doesnt mind let me counter this see…
The Dive Kick CAN crossup see making it a split second whether the Tung will hit you on the back or the front and combo into JF MM… also know that it aint St. CxxF+C into MM…its St. D (one hit)xxForward+C into JF MM…why?? The St. D one hitter gives you more JF MM hittage…yes hittage aint a word…
See Tung can be patient though yes he lacks limbs but if you play him RB 2 style like Joey does and then trick you and wait for you to attack or try to whiff an AA to stop his dive kick or jumping then see you eat the JF MM.
I know what you are talking about Cajunstrike But I’d believe it better if I see it perfectly defended against…Trust me good and well I know that is the only good move he has…but its mainly the crossup Dive Kick or his Post-Death setups that can get you will JF MM…soif you are thinking just simple tricks with Tung man you’re wrong…
Yeah sure you can play him simple and still all you gotta do with Tung is play him simple and wait for your ONE opportunity to punish and when you land it make them pay…Tung spends the entire match trying to land JF MM and if he lands it game over see…
Know that the dive kick BEATS many Dragon Punches and other things you would think that beat it…see it aint about turtle Tung its about RUSHDOWN TUNG…
Thats how he can get it… forcing you to turtle or play defensive most of the time because one false move and its half your life…
I’m really not seeing how Tung can fight the top tiers in NGBC. Seriously, it’s like what Alex said: Tung has only two ways to land MM, either as anti-air or after a dive kick. And DG, don’t hype the dive kick up like that. You can GC it and uppercut him before he even touches the ground. Dive kick is not all that.
The main problem is that if the opponent doesn’t jump at you, if Tung wants to land Muscle Man (and he does, cuz that’s like, all he has), he has to jump at YOU. Tung cannot fight most of the cast on the ground because like Alex said, he has no range. So he has to bank everything on jumping crossup D or jumping dive kick. Against pretty much all of the top tiers, attempting to jump at them is murder. So how the hell does Tung fight the top tiers?
Seriously, look at it this way:
Jump at Kim? Eat a reactionary j.C into a free super or a D Hien Zan.
Jump at Big? Eat the lariat.
Jump at Hotaru? Eat the super.
Jump at Kaede? Eat the uppercut.
Seriously, if you try to jump at almost any of these characters, you will eat something. In fact, if you try to jump at most of the cast, they can just block and GC or they can Tactical Step through your shit when you try to jump at them. So your only option left is to try and fight on the ground, hopefully bait out a bad poke and step through it or jump over it. Straight up asking for trouble. Tung cannot fight the top tiers.
You guys like to talk big and act like you know all these fancy-ass secrets about the game, but there is a reason the Triad of NC has a big leg-up on NGBC. I can tell you, these guys used to play this game almost every fucking day, especially after FR9 where they achieved their first big victory. They didn’t sit around thinking they were the shit because they won a major, they took it a step further and continued to break down the game. You guys spent the last couple of pages ranting about how awesome Tung’s MM is, calling it a just frame and all that like it was an elite trick. Yet all it took was some messing around in training mode and Triad figured that shit out. I halfway figured it out in thirty minutes, it’s not magic. Believe you me, just because we don’t talk about everything doesn’t mean we don’t know things about the lower ranked characters. Jacking your dick over one move and keeping information to yourself is not how you demonstrate mastery of a game, especially when it’s something mundane regarding a shitty character. This is not KOF where one gimmick makes a character useful because everyone plays the same. =/
Correction…let me inform you…Jump at Big and the Dive Kick WILL CROSS UP AND BEAT ON THE LARIAT…been there tested that so thats wrong…
Against Kaede yes the uppercut beats all that but Hotarus super has to be done at the right angle to catch Tung…
Bigs lariat gets beaten…seriously…Dive Kick beats it…been there done that I’m telling you…Whiff the Lariat because you anticipate Tung jumping and he will get a free Combo into super.
Kim has to do Jump C at the right time to get Tung…
Lets keep this discussion going because as you see we got stuff to keep it going…
Now about the last part…just because you are the Champion does not mean you know it all see…I respect the Triad but I don’t worship anyone…they are the Champions but that doesnt mean they know everything you know…I don’t know everything I can’t think of one person that knows everything about one game…there is still plenty to figure out.
So we should keep the discussion going instead of saying well blah blah we got this Championship leg up etc blah blah blah…am I questioning anything in that regard? No that has nothing to do with that…we are presenting things from a different angle as you guys are…
Hotarus AA super can be beaten early by the Dive Kick and Tung can cancel his jump with the Dive Kick at times so you spend most of the time trying to block and not get hit by a JF MM.
And about the secrets etc don’t you see me talking about some of them now?? Okay then end of discussion about that thats what I thought I was doing don’t you see Ultimate Faust saying maybe we shouldve waited to show some of this at NEC?
My belief is just because you know about something doesnt mean you can stop it…
Hell I know about Genei Jin does that mean I can stop it??? So then see that is why we are having this discussion so we can both see the counters for what we “believe” is the answer to all of this…you all try to make it simple I don’t believe the answer is that cut and dry see…
JF MM aint hard to figure out…I once again look at it like this see…we all play the game hardcore…so any of us should be able to hear about something and figure it out if not then you aren’t competent enough to understand what you read or see aka not hardcore enough IMO…so why you say about them figuring stuff easy how the hell you think Ultimate Faust is so confident about challenging you guys if you use Hotaru, Cyber Woo, Kim/Big, Kaede, or Marco?? Because within seeing 5 minutes of any North Carolina vid I can mimic anything I see you guys do…hence he has seen the Match Vid NC style play many many many many times…so that goes both ways…whatever thing I see you guys do within seconds I can do it… I have exposed him to that style of play many many times and have taught him counters for that style of play…
So thats really nothing worth talking about…I EXPECT you guys to be able to figure out whatever we are talking about…after all if not then to me thats dissapointing…I told you I have Supreme Hopes coming from the North Carolina Champions…
I am expecting to get annihilated and** if I dont I will be dissapointed Greatly**…For this is what I am travelling for in NGBC…
I use Mizuchi and Geese 
I might have been wrong on the lariat, but I noticed you didn’t say anything about blocking and GCing or using Tactical Step. And that’s something any character can do.
Kim having to do j.C at the right time, well yeah, that’s a given. What’s your point? If Kim hits a j.C, you’re going to eat a combo into a super that will do around 40% and put you into the corner where he will continue to rape you with combos into super and throws that do 25% and put you in a crossup situation. Jumping at Kim is suicide.
As for the stuff that I said, I wasn’t trying to say that we know everything. It seems to me that the entire time, you and your boy ultimatefaust have been trying to imply that you know stuff no one else knows and that it’s something that will give you an edge. I mean, do you think we all started out playing top tiers and never touched anyone else? K’ was a primary on many of my early teams. SieClayton is well-versed in Kyo, Washizuka, Genjuro and Chonrei, to name a few. P-Soul plays a LOT of Kisarah and he also plays Nakoruru. And you’ve all seen CajunStrike play Cyber-Woo, not to mention he plays Athena. Let’s not forget Orochi and his Asura/Geese team. The “PM for strats!” stuff is really silly too, honestly. You’d be better off sharing that stuff here just because there is a good chance that someone else already knows it and may be able to expand on your knowledge. That’s more to your advantage than anything.
On top of that, your boy is the one who started talking shit about how he was going to rape us with Tung based on a few match vids from several months ago. I hope I don’t have to go into detail as to why he is being foolish. What I’m trying to help you understand is that you cannot assume that we will have a hard time fighting Tung just because your boy works you over with him every once in a while. There should be a general hyped feeling going towards our encounter, sure, but the unwarranted bragging needs to stop. The guy doesn’t even know if he can make it to NEC yet, so why is he running his mouth? A lot of unfounded confidence, really. It’s not really on you, but you ARE encouraging him.
And yes, I agree that knowledge alone is not the key to beating something, but knowledge is the basis for all counter-strategy. Like I was saying, the “Just Frame Muscle Man” that you guys have been going on about is not some magical secret, we figured it out on our own. The setups are pretty easy to understand, Tung is not some kind of slept-on top tier or any nonsense like that.
In any case, NEC will decide all of this, providing that everyone is able to make it out. I myself won’t know until tomorrow whether or not I have a ride, but NGBC is a side game for me anyway, I’m a GG player. I’m just stepping in because unlike you, I’ve actually had the opportunity to play with the Triad on a somewhat regular basis, so I know that all this nonsense about owning up on them with Tung is just that, nonsense. We all hope you guys put up a helluva fight, cuz it’s always a disappointment when you can’t live up to your own hype.
Actually Ive tested it you have to GC really fast to punish the Dive Kick and that can be beaten with the Dive Kick…as well as GCFS etc.
I back up anyone on my team you know in general he’s on my team and I also feel like this is healthy competition.
You guys gotta understand that Ultimate Faust is Ultimate Faust, Joey is Joey…he will admit at times he is too cocky you know…he is who he is take it in stride you know its no big deal.
Im just trying to hype this thing up seriously I been waiting for this for a while…I been waiting a damn long time to play you guys…
The Pm for strats stuff for me is because I am a firm believe in exposure and inexposure…If you’ve never seen something before how can you stop it…so yeah while its great for strats and helping people out it is not good for competition…because in competition I have a me against the world mentality…
I aint gonna tell anyone how to beat me…and me telling them my secrets whether someone else knows it or not is not gonna help me out…
Matter of fact I would bet you guys know 98% of what we are talking about…hell I expect you guys to remember you guys are the Champs so I put you guys on a high pedestal…
All I am saying is that we just all need to discuss this in general and not say well you WILL Lose etc…yeah thats cool for the first couple of times if it is based on hyping up the matches…sure it works…but now lets get to discussion because the matches will take care of themselves…
Ok, how does dive kick beat GC if you are GCing the dive kick itself? Dive kick doesn’t cancel into dive kick. SieClayton has tested this, a blocked dive kick can be GCFSed and you can hit Tung before he touches the ground. So no chance at Muscle Man or anything like that. Like I said, anyone can do this.
And it’s cool that you back your boy (hell, I’m backing my friends doing this), but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s the one getting all excited because he saw some old match vids and is convinced he can beat us. Anybody knows that you can’t judge what will happen in your matches versus someone else by watching vids of them playing other people, especially if the vids don’t feature the characters you are going to use. If that were true, then the top players wouldn’t be so firmly established.
Honestly, the insistence upon hanging on to your secrets while publicly talking about how you have info you won’t share comes off as a lack of confidence in your actual ability to play. I understand your mentality, but good players win even if the other guy knows all of their tricks because they are just better players. That’s why Triad isn’t fazed when guys like ultimate faust come out talking about how he’ll beat them down cuz he watched a few of their matches.
But anyway, I still don’t see how Tung can deal with being zoned. The fact stands that the majority of the high-ranked characters possess a stronger ground game than he does. You aren’t gonna get away with jumping at people with dive kicks.
I hear yah man and you make some damn good points…I was just brought up in the School of Sandbagging by my boy jra64 and thus that is the way I think…they are two different ways of think…those that believe Go Hard of Go Home like some DTX peeps and me of the Sandbag Approach…
Two methods to accomplish goals…
Both work…
Dont think the sandbag method works??? I believe you guys sandbag in your videos just like I will tell you 100% fact that I sandbag all the time in casuals that I play.
Dont believe it works? Dont believe top players sandbag? jra64 Sandbags in Tekken all the time believe me…saving somethings he does just until the tournament…and fucking around before etc…unless its a MM…and he is a top player make no mistake about it…one of the Best in the World in Tekken…and he is a Master of the Sand…
It has nothing to do with lack of confidence in my playing ability I work hard for what I discover I aint gonna give it for free…in the Sandbag School mentality its like this- “Would you give someone the keys to your car/house for free or would you make them work hard for it???”
I “sandbag” even with women to be honest lol, its like NGBC all over again lol I go Random Select HAHAHA j/k:lol:…I aint gonna be the nice guy and show my nice guy side to women up front telling her everything about me…I am gonna be mysterious…peak her interest, play hard to get myself hell lol I never will tell her everything about me…I am only hurting myself…that is the line of thought of Sandbag School 101.
Same thing here…I aint giving out all my tricks for free…if someone wants my “Car” they gotta come get it…and beat me down first…:lol:
About Tung getting Zoned JF MM beats like what they can rushdown with…try it…like 95% of what Big can do his typical blah blah cookie cutter Rush Cr. A boring Cr. D stuff…all that gets eaten alive on the ground by MM… taking away Bigs game all together… Try Marcos Def Grenade Loop…Tung runs under it…
Haohs St. C? Tung Can do his Dash punch after to punish.
Wanna do Kaedes rush in st. bxxcom grab or command grab stuff on wakeup? Muscleman beats all this.,
Hotaru? Gotta time just right the cr.b or you too will be eating Muscleman on wakeup!
I enjoy this discussion actually so keep it up man lol.
Not saying we don’t sandbag either, it’s just more “why play for keeps when it’s casuals and you’ll get to play again in a few?”, rather than actively trying to hide our best shit. Some rounds we will go all out. Me personally, I don’t sandbag unless I feel like the other person won’t get anything out of me going for broke or unless I’m testing something. You can get a lot more mileage out of your play if you don’t go for the throat 24/7.
And it’s more the indication that you know something but you won’t share, rather than your actual refusal to share. If you’ve got tactics you don’t wanna give away, that’s cool. But don’t prance around throwing it in people’s faces that you have some sort of “secret technique” that you aren’t gonna tell them. That just comes off as childish. Rather than constantly alluding to stuff you know, try actually sharing it. People will think more of you for displaying your knowledge instead of bragging about supposed knowledge. Again, comes off as you trying to cover up for a lack of confidence.
i dont wanna talk anymore about this till after the NEC, dark geese, ill talk to you later about it, i may or may not be able to go…
Gotcha Joey…yeah we can save some of this till the NEC when then see there will be no need to talk…just Good games against people who play the game like us see…no talking in the thread just playing.
I say it like that BOF because I wanna see if people know it or not. If they wanna know it they actually do PM me seriously…its to me like how bad do you want it???
So I do share it to people that Pm me yes I do…lol.
And people who play me in person hell I love teaching them stuff in person but online if the person Pms me that tells me they reall wanna know…if not I look at it like anyone online could be my enemy in a tournament…
Because the moment I see how someone else plays I will literally script you out, learn your style to perfection, mimic it, then form ways to stop it…
I will even draw a tendency chart if I can…
And I think…hmmm if I do this I KNOW others do…
Actually, most people I know DON’T do that kind of in-depth analysis of someone who they see playing, because that has a tendency to run into problems when you actually play the person and you don’t get what you were looking for because they play you differently. What you see isn’t necessarily what you get, so don’t think too far ahead or you may be thrown for a loop.
You cannot completely script out a good player just from watching matches of them. Circumstances have to be taken into account. For example, CajunStrike may fight against your Kisarah/Athena team much differently than he fights against say, SieClayton’s Hotaru/Big team. You can say that you have “analyzed” both players and accounted for all of their options, but until you sit down and play them, there’s no telling.
Yeah true I know things are different but hey what else can you do with a match vid??
I mean to perfection I mean like What I feel how you would play Match Vid style…I do all of this based off a Match Vid…That is all I have until I play the person see.
If I dont look into that then I can really be thrown into a loop because I aint prepared FOR ANYTHING…I wanna at least have some idea what to prepare for you know…
Hence I meticulously study any match vid I get…which tells me if you dont sandbag in match vids and leave it all on the table in the vids YOU’RE FUCKED…because I see how you play I mimic it as much as I can and thus I got answers for it…I will wake up in my sleep writing shit down to try and counter what I saw in the vids and I will turn what I see into my own devious plans see…
I told you man I’m a nerd when it comes to match vids…and why not?? I gotta travel on the other side of the country besides Oklahoma to get some good NGBC comp?? I would believe in Texas the only other people in Texas that could MAYBE beat me and Ultimate Faust are Shin Kensou and AZNHitler…thats a big maybe other than that we rule Texas and Oklahoma in NGBC…
So I do whatever I can to pick up as much as possible until I see you play…then when I see you play I record stuff down mentally and physically…I write notes…I am a TRUE STUDENT OF THE GAME.
I can argue that jra64 beat JOP in Tekken 5 cold blooded because hes A. Played him
B. Is good duh
C. Has studied JOP!!!
I have proof of all this…the first 2 are obvious but I actually have the notes of Jra64s hard work studying JOP…and he murdered him …
See I have to notes I need to play you guys now to test my knowlecge and then go back to the drawing board come back for Round 2 then make it complete hehehehe…
to tell you the truth, all hotarus and kaedes and such all play pretty much the same, this is why we cvould go against them well, plus going against top tiers with my tung, im gonna have some experience fighting them…
the only difference between sie clayton and cajunstrikes performances to japanese players performances is that the philly team moves a bit slower than that japanese, but still, they all have the same system of playing the top tiers and pretty much have the same strats!!! (sigh)
Wow glad to be back after a long long hiatus.
Joey check www.cheaptickets.com its a lot cheaper than the sky-rocketing tickets at expedia.com!
There are people in RDU that play NGBC that don’t need to post every thing they find either. BOF good points, back off! DG good points chill down! Like you said go to NEC and do your thang and my the best player win.
But all that was said was very good and super helpful,thank you guys. 
No biggie. Just wanted to add try and GC Tung’s Dive Kick BOF and you will be eating some other things TRUST ME…
Joey I gotta teach you Gaoh in SS Tenka man lol. Your type of character.