The Master of DLC Unlocking -The Jill Valentine Thread

[Swillo]

I’ve been playing more and more Jill, and getting better with her. Here are a couple of tips I can give. Her teleport is really the most important aspect of using her and getting around the battle field, keep buffering and chaining them together as your basic form of movement with her. Pretty much all of her special moves are borderline useless outside of comboing, so you have to rely on a lot of teleport and good old fashion fundamentals for approaching.

Her crouching medium is a great mid range poke tool, and you can buffer into feral stance teleport, so try to use that if you want to cover some ground while both attacking and keeping a low profile. Her jump attacks have huge vertical hitboxes, so when someone is trying to come from above, you can beat them pretty easily by going air to air. I’ve said this before, but Jill’s machine gun hyper is such a powerful tool for her, especially if you have good DHC partners. I would try to conserve her meter exclusively for her machine gun hyper, because she needs this when the situation feels overwhelming, or to just limit your opponents options in general.

There is more I want to say, but I can’t think of it at the moment. I’ll try to upload some match videos, if I ever stop being too lazy to record them.

[KumaOso]

I’ve been playing more and more Jill, and getting better with her. Here are a couple of tips I can give. Her teleport is really the most important aspect of using her and getting around the battle field, keep buffering and chaining them together as your basic form of movement with her. Pretty much all of her special moves are borderline useless outside of comboing, so you have to rely on a lot of teleport and good old fashion fundamentals for approaching.

I had a feeling from the start this was going to be the case.

Her crouching medium is a great mid range poke tool, and you can buffer into feral stance teleport, so try to use that if you want to cover some ground while both attacking and keeping a low profile. Her jump attacks have huge vertical hitboxes, so when someone is trying to come from above, you can beat them pretty easily by going air to air. I’ve said this before, but Jill’s machine gun hyper is such a powerful tool for her, especially if you have good DHC partners. I would try to conserve her meter exclusively for her machine gun hyper, because she needs this when the situation feels overwhelming, or to just limit your opponents options in general.

When’s the point you DHC with Machine Gun Spray? I can’t seem to find it.

[mouser]

Her teleport is really the most important aspect of using her and getting around the battle field, keep buffering and chaining them together as your basic form of movement with her. Pretty much all of her special moves are borderline useless outside of comboing, so you have to rely on a lot of teleport and good old fashion fundamentals for approaching.

Agreed, this is the most I could figure out myself. Jill’s main problem is getting in…once in, it’s really easy to mix-up opponents…plus with her instant overhead j.M against most characters, she’s very hard to defend against. She’s utterly useless from afar…her arrow kick is her only long range attack, which requires an assist to avoid being punished…but if blocked, she can follow up with a mix-up/throw.

On another note…can anyone figure out anything useful for Jill’s lvl 3 super? Her infinite seems unreliable to pull off in realistic situations (especially online)…I’d rather conserve meter for her lvl 1’s.

[Crimson_Cobra]

One Combo with thor can kill jill(or leave her almost dead)…playing against a guy online who uses thor and usually within the first 15 seconds he’s already gotten jill down to a measly ounce of health just by knocking her into the air and landing mighty tornado

then it’s all up to Arthur And Sentinel against thor ryu and dante…

[Carpark]

I’d say X-23 is likely faster overall. I think they have roughly the same ground speed normally (Jill looks slower but she’s taller and stays higher during her dash so that’s a bit of a visual illusion), X-23’s teleport is available at any time but a bit slower, and she actually has a way to move forward in the air. Feral Stance teleports are still a bit more “explosive” though.

I’m sorry, but “a bit slower”, really? Ermm… Last time I checked Jill’s full High Speed Dash is about 40% faster than Fient, that’s not all though. Considering the fact that Jill’s dash is partially invincible, the fact that she can call assists during the dash, special propery of her dashes that automatically re-alligns her to face opponent (can never dash too far) and that she can cancel her dash into any special/hyper moves at any time, that makes Jill’s dash infinity x 5 times faster than X-23 feint.

Arrow Kick moves Jill forward while attacking a hell of a lot faster than anything X-23 can do though, we’ll have to see how it develops.

So why did you count X-23’s Air Talon attack but not Arrow Kick? I’m not even gonna talk just how predictible Air Talon is, can only be followed-up at the very end (no cancellable into say, Feral Crouch, at any time) with :d:+:h: that is also super predictable and can be blocked low. That move just screams AAA/Launch/Counter me on reaction to me.

Chun Li gets fucking stupid amounts of speed up in X-Factor level 3, I don’t know if Jill is able to top that either, plus Chun actually has a damn (double) air dash.

So does Jill, maybe not as much, but she still is ridiculously fast during level 3 X-Factor, and unlike Chun, she has a great damage boost as well. Sure (double) air dash is great, but without assists it fairly predictable. The main strength fo Jill’s level 3 X-Factor is the fact that everything combos into itself without Feral Crouch cancelling (it is quite difficult to do during level 3 X-Factor as well). I’m not counting level 3 X-Factor Mad Beast Jill though, she’s IS the fastest character in the game (or maybe the fastest character in any fighting game), but I can’t control her at all. Technically that means that the opponent will also have huge problems blocking her attacks, but that doesn’t change the fact that I can’t capitalize on the oppenings I get.

Pretty much all of her special moves are borderline useless outside of comboing, so you have to rely on a lot of teleport and good old fashion fundamentals for approaching.

Flip Kick at 13 frames is the fastest Feral Crouch activation form closer range (aside from raw activation that is fairly dangerous from close range), and it is only -1 on block. On hit it is a free combo.
Cartwheel Kick is a whiff punish move at midscreen, really fast, and is completely safe on block when Feral Crouch cancelled. On block, you get a free mixup opportunity, on hit, it is a free combo. I love punishing Sentinel’s whiffed :d:+:m: with it.
Arrow Kick gives about +10 frames when cancelled on block and is one of the better moves to fight pushblock.
Somersault is the best AA in the game, bar none, sure you have to be in FC, but there are tons of way to enter it.
Position Exchange is absolutely deadly as a mixup tool.

Useless specials my ass.

One Combo with thor can kill jill(or leave her almost dead)…playing against a guy online who uses thor and usually within the first 15 seconds he’s already gotten jill down to a measly ounce of health just by knocking her into the air and landing mighty tornado

then it’s all up to Arthur And Sentinel against thor ryu and dante…

I fail to see your argument, one combo with Thor can kill anyone including Arthur and Sentinel. Oh, by the way, one combo with Jill utilizing DHC reset trick (both and Sentinel are capable of doing it) kills Thor, so…

[guitalex2007]

When’s the point you DHC with Machine Gun Spray? I can’t seem to find it.

Machine Gun Spray not only punishes mistakes and fireballs, but puts your next DHC partner in range. It’s a segway from punishing something as small as a fireball into DHC’ing into someone else and hit confirming it. Sure, doesn’t do that much damage that way, but wouldn’t you want EVERY hyper to have the initial invincibility that Jill’s gun hyper has? If you DHC out of guns when she is in range you can.

[nin-jay]

I have been catching people with 2L, 2M, 2H, 6H. Once the overhead connects, I cancel with H knee drop. This gives you plenty of time to set up a series to flip, cartwheel, or arrow kick into whatever you like doing. If they block the overhead, then you will be in FC and can dash away or behind them.

Still, the hardest part is getting in. I have been using unibeam or drones to help.

[KumaOso]

Machine Gun Spray not only punishes mistakes and fireballs, but puts your next DHC partner in range. It’s a segway from punishing something as small as a fireball into DHC’ing into someone else and hit confirming it. Sure, doesn’t do that much damage that way, but wouldn’t you want EVERY hyper to have the initial invincibility that Jill’s gun hyper has? If you DHC out of guns when she is in range you can.

You misread it. I asked for when do you DHC Machine Gun Spray.

[guitalex2007]

You misread it. I asked for when do you DHC Machine Gun Spray.

INTO or OUT OF?

INTO Machine Gun Spray, when the hyper in question puts the opponent in the air about a screen high, where guns would do more damage than the dive kick. For example, Haggar’s Body Press.

OUT OF Machine Gun Spray, when punishing fireballs or whiffed moves from half to full screen, moving the next move to be DHC’d closer to the opponent while they’re still in hitstun from the guns, or simply to move in and take advantage of the neutral +0 advantage. For example, Haggar’s Rapid Fire Fist.

[DeltaKyaku]

Air Talon attack is way different than anything Jill has because it can be used as a ghetto airdash to change her trajectory in air and get across the screen. The only thing Jill can do in the air aside from float in is drop straight down, and pretty slowly at that. You’ll understand if you see an X-23 do the :h: version to get behind a beam super. Point is if “speed” means “mobility”, X-23 is much faster in certain areas on the tradeoff of absolute maximum ground dash velocity.

You’re also sleeping on X-Factor 3 Chun’s damage output, she gets a loop that starts with a pile of heavy hits and her lightning legs gain a ton of damage from a combination of minimum scaling boost and extra hits.

I think Jill is pretty much screwed without strong assists anyways.

[Carpark]

Air Talon attack is way different than anything Jill has because it can be used as a ghetto airdash to change her trajectory in air and get across the screen. The only thing Jill can do in the air aside from float in is drop straight down, and pretty slowly at that. You’ll understand if you see an X-23 do the :h: version to get behind a beam super. Point is if “speed” means “mobility”, X-23 is much faster in certain areas on the tradeoff of absolute maximum ground dash velocity.

I understand that it is different, I’m just saying it sucks as a “get in” tool. Air Talon Attack is not even a half-assed airdash, it cannot be interrupted at any time and it goes a set distance, so you’ll know where she ends up every time and can punish her every time. If she had a double jump or at least different versions based on distance (like Cammy’s light or heavy Air Spiral Arrows for cross-up shenenigans with assists) and not only angle, it would be better.

You’re also sleeping on X-Factor 3 Chun’s damage output, she gets a loop that starts with a pile of heavy hits and her lightning legs gain a ton of damage from a combination of minimum scaling boost and extra hits.

I think Jill is pretty much screwed without strong assists anyways.

Ok, I admit I sould’ve looked before posting that, Chun does pretty much as much damage as Jill does (i.e. every combo is a death combo), but the main point still stands, Jill is also deadly during level 3 X-Factor with her own loops and insanely fast overhead j:m: into :l: Double Knee Drop. And I don’t think she is screwed without assists any “more” than Chun is, at least Jill can fight runaway somewhat (including Phoenix) while Chun has to rely on luck or an air grab she can’t follow-up. And why do people act like assist-less forward Air Dash is somehow much better than assist-less ground dash, if it was an 8 way air dash I could see that. It actually makes you guess high/low games. But Chun’s :d:+:m: takes ages to come out of off an air dash compared to say Iron Man’s triangle jump :d:+:l:.

So I think they both have their share of flaws, but both Jill and Chun can wreck a team during level 3 X-Factor if you are not careful enough.

[Nitro_Noodlez]

Ok, I admit I sould’ve looked before posting that, Chun does pretty much as much damage as Jill does (i.e. every combo is a death combo), but the main point still stands, Jill is also deadly during level 3 X-Factor with her own loops and insanely fast overhead j:m: into :l: Double Knee Drop. And I don’t think she is screwed without assists any “more” than Chun is, at least Jill can fight runaway somewhat (including Phoenix) while Chun has to rely on luck or an air grab she can’t follow-up. And why do people act like assist-less forward Air Dash is somehow much better than assist-less ground dash, if it was an 8 way air dash I could see that. It actually makes you guess high/low games. But Chun’s :d:+:m: takes ages to come out of off an air dash compared to say Iron Man’s triangle jump :d:+:l:.

Actually Iron Man’s cr.l is only one frame faster than Chun’s cr.m and has less range than it, so it is not much compromise in her high/low mixup game when combined with cross up j.m, forward heavy which hits overhead and can cross up, and instant overhead stomp that leads into a full combo. Even if it is assist-less, Chun’s air dash is still another good alternative mobility option other than wavedash, and she can also kara cancel her airdash into another just like joe can.

This isn’t the Chun forum, but I just wanted to point these things out. =P

[Crimson_Cobra]

what i meant is that sometimes it’s hard to put the pressure on the opponent with jill if they got a big character and even if they don’t
one combo will leave her aching either way

The health nerf on sentinel just makes getting in harder

[Carpark]

Actually Iron Man’s cr.l is only one frame faster than Chun’s cr.m and has less range than it, so it is not much compromise in her high/low mixup game when combined with cross up j.m, forward heavy which hits overhead and can cross up, and instant overhead stomp that leads into a full combo. Even if it is assist-less, Chun’s air dash is still another good alternative mobility option other than wavedash, and she can also kara cancel her airdash into another just like joe can.

I know my frame data, man, I’m not comparing the moves, I’m comparing Iron Man’s triangle jump into crouching light, versus Chun’s air dash into crouching medium. And I’m not talking about overhead’s here, only lows. Just to make it clear, I’m not saying Chun sucks, I’m saying Jill is also good.

[InBondWeTrust]

Since the patch is out and capcom is showing they’re at least gonna attempt to balance this game, I was trying to come up with realistic changes I could see Jill receiving.

The biggest one that came to mind is the fickle nature of the hit boxes on a lot of her moves. Stuff like low sweep not being able to combo off a ground chain into flip kick or only being able to combo off ensarement with some of the cast just makes no sense and IMO doesn’t add to the skill required to use Jill, it just makes her look annoying and kinda unpolished.

Anyway, I dont think the world would end if they increased the hit box on her ground H moves so they don’t whiff so often and increased the range on her low sweep so you don’t have to shorten her chain series to 2 moves in order to get it to connect reliably (and even then this doesn’t work on pixies).

[Carpark]

The biggest one that came to mind is the fickle nature of the hit boxes on a lot of her moves. Stuff like low sweep not being able to combo off a ground chain into flip kick or only being able to combo off ensarement with some of the cast just makes no sense and IMO doesn’t add to the skill required to use Jill, it just makes her look annoying and kinda unpolished.

Hardly a problem.

Universal combo starters into Filp Kick:
:l:, , :h:, +:h:, Flip Kick (works anywhere, on everyone except crouching Joe, hard to connect :l: on crouching Morrigan and Ammy).
:d:+:l:, :d:+:m:, :h:, :d:+:h:, +:h:, Flip Kick (works on everyone at midscreen, doesn’t work on Arthur, Joe, Ammy, and probably some other short characters in the corner).
:d:+:l:, :d:+:m:, :d:+:h:, +:h:, Flip Kick (works on everyone, everywhere).

If you whiff Low Sweep, then you just timed it wrong. It has nothing to do with Jill though, different characters fall with different speeds so you might have to delay it sometimes. This is the same reason why Ensnarement allows some advanced combos on heavy characters. I think you can land an :l: after Ensnarement on everyone to extend your combo, I didn’t try everyone though, so don’t quote me on that.

Finally, just to clear the confusion, there’s no reason, and I repeat this, no reason to do the full ground Hunter Chain, it will do less damage in the end. Simple starters do just as much damage or more.

[DevilJin_01]

Sorry if this has been asked before but does Jill’s taunt when she comes in during a raw tag or activates xfactor and holds her chest do anything?

[KumaOso]

I never noticed anything. The jewel on her chest is a mind control device used by Wesker.

[pulsr]

If only her arrow attack let her stay in after a FC, or better yet let her combo off of it midscreen that would be sweet.

Fun facts: Feral B hits crouchers as a cross up. Feral C 22s maintains invulnerability.

[Zachara]

Didn’t really know where else too post this so I guess this’ll do.

I’ve been playing both with and against Jill quite alot and both me and my friend have noticed something.
When Raven Spike is blocked (-19) we’ve been able to get out an :L: before the opponent can. At first I thought I was being an idiot and missing my oppotunity but then it happened again. And again. (Alot of the time I was Wesker attempting Cr. :L: (start-up = 5))
Not saying that this is an actual problem with the character/game (Hell, it could be delay on the TV or we could be dropping frames due to playing on a shitty Ps3) I just thought I’d come to the forums and try and find out whats going on.
Sorry for possibly wasting peoples time.