The Legend of Zelda thread - Ganon's bodyshop will be open for business on Nov. 20th

General Discussion
681

You know, I’m trying to figure out what exactly is it that makes people think OoT was a good game.

OoT was one of the first immersive 3D games for consoles. It was one of the first games to really try to sell gamers on being engrossed within the world around them. This seems to be the biggest culprit. It’s got that nostalgic quality because for a lot of gamers it was their first experience with something like this. Of course on one hand there’s something to be said for successfully selling this, but to me this was one of the biggest problems. I said earlier in the thread that it’s just too small. I realize that only so much could be done on the N64, but I wasn’t sold into giving a damn about this place because Hyrule was so tiny. It’s like here comes the almighty Ganon to take over some local apartment comp****lex! GRRRR!… or at least a small country town. Give me a break. If you’re going to try to sell me on a guy being a super powerful villain then he needs to attempt to conquer something relative to said power. Zelda 2 did a much better job of making me feel like Hyrule was a big place.

Graphics: Nothing bad to say here, but that’s a little part of what makes a game good. The temples actually did have an ominous feel to them though.

Sound/Music: This is another deceptively lacking part. The Ocarina tunes were great, so was Gerudo Valley, and the Lost Woods was decent, but the other 90% of the game was hindu/arabic meditation music. On one hand this was good for helping out the ominous feel of the temples, but it’s also pretty forgettable. and annoying after a loop or two (other than the Water Temple). The first time you hear the music it’s like… ok this is cool… then after that it’s just motivation to make you want to hurry the fuck up and beat the place.

Story: Just good enough. The problem is that a lot of fans think Zelda’s story is OMG SO GREAT! when it’s… just good enough. It’s good enough to make the player not want to ask “what am I fighting for?” but it’s shallow, lacking in character development, has a weak arc, 0 mystery, no rising action, a climax that you can see coming from a mile away, and no interesting NPCs. A good story should be a tree with several strong branches. OoT’s is like a thin trunk that goes straight up.

Gameplay: Tomb Raider with a sword. The dungeons were decent, but sometimes I wondered why Link had a sword at all, and the shield was even more useless. Enemies were few and far in between and there were only a handful that actually felt like sword fights. How do you give a guy a legendary sword and shield, and not let him make more use of it? This really annoyed me.

So to wrap up: when it comes to story people don’t know any better so it seems great. The graphics were pretty so they ignore the gameplay. The Ocarina songs were cool, so they forget that the rest of the music was just atmospheric background noise which gets old really quickly, and people forgot that they’re playing a game where the main character has a sword and shield that collect dust.

…best… game… ever.

682

I think I’ve played Ocarina of time too much to enjoy it any more, but during my first experience playing it, i loved it.
The combat, the atmosphere, and the overall experience were all really great.

I never really thought about why the area was so small like Hotobu said “here comes the almighty Ganon to take over some local apartment comp****lex! GRRRR!.” cause i just had it in my mind, control the kingdom control the land so the rest of it that remained unseen was kind of unimportant.
Also regarding the game’s map. I don’t know about you guys ,but to me Ocarina of time had some of the more memorable placement out of any of the zelda’s.
Yeah i’ve played it a lot ,but even when i first had the game i could easily remember the where things were and how they were arranged.
Let’s have a look at twilight princess, that games area was waaay bigger than Oot’s ,but forgettable and empty. So for me it’s not about size (giggity) it’s about significance
Not once in my first play through’s of Oot did i think uugggghhhh get there all ready this is taakiing to looong like i did with TP, or like SS where the area just wasn’t there.

yeah graphics were fine.

Sound and music was great. gave great and appropriate atmosphere to the area’s especially the temple of time.

Story: not much to brag about, but it does have some very powerful instants which pulls the player into the moment.

Gameplay: To people experienced in zelda the combat (sword and shield usage) might not seem as significant to first time players.
like say in the forest temple when fighting stalphos for the first time player the shield is a really big help where to someone who knows how to fight them wouldn’t have much trouble at all. Personally i thought the shield was overpowered. Overall the exploration in dungeons vs. combat is pretty evened out.

Personally Oot is not my favorite zelda, it used to be when i was a wee child even when majoras mask was out
(which is now my all time favorite zelda hands down).

yeah i loved Oot and still love the experience it offered in it’s time, but like any game if played too much it gets old, it’s just this game took a little while longer to become stale.

maybe i’m just an optimist.

edit: games i can’t understand being people’s favorite TP, SS (which i enjoyed a lot), PH, and ST if they claim to be zelda fan’s

683

Why not Skyward sword? I really like the combat in Skyward Sword and I thought the temples had good puzzles, and you end up using all your tools through pretty much the whole adventure, even if you only got them at the beginning of the game. I also like it’s story a good deal. I felt like SS was them taking the gameplay style started with OOT and pushing it as far as it would go. I think it’s time for them do something new with the series for sure, but I thought SS was a super strong entry in the series, especially for the 3D series. I have trouble deciding if I like it or Majoras Mask more.

684

Re: OoT map size. Yes OoT’s map was memorable because there wasn’t much to it. Castle, Kakariko+Death Mountain, Gerudo, Zora’s domain, and you start off in the forest so you can’t help but remember it. That’s partially why it felt so small. I like having a spread out map because it feels bigger. The larger scale makes the adventure more meaningful to me. This bothered me a bit about SS.

The problem with Skyward Sword was the combat. It’d have been great if it worked properly, but that damned waggle shit wasn’t responsive enough. The accuracy was way too low and you had to be way too deliberate for the attacks to come out properly. That’s my biggest gripe. To me Skyward Sword was the first Zelda to FINALLY have a well done story.

685

Young Link - Shield + Keaton mask = NINJA LINK! My favorite part about those games was how much you could just mess around with all the items and come up with stupid shit like that.
It was amusing watching my friend act out that persona while playing and I carried it on… getting a few friends interested in the series in turn. OoT isn’t the 1st Zelda I played but it is what made me a follower of the series as my friend got me into it with his acting and showing all the little shit you can do. And yeah I did get into it when that game was sill state of the art, so at the time there weren’t many games that were as immersive as that in 3D. Comparatively, I didn’t play FF7 (which so many people praised) until about 7 years after it came out and having played other 3D FFs before it… it was good but didn’t blow me away (LOVE the music though).

I got ALttP and Link’s Awakening shortly afterward and I’d say the gameboy Zeldas are my favorite and I see OoT drew A LOT from ALttP, but nah I don’t dislike OoT at all. I “DISLIKE” those DS Zeldas. Get that touchscreen and boat and train shit OUTTA HERE (I didn’t mind the boat in WW though… perfect opportunity to eat some snacks).

686

Yea, I guess. I mean yea i didn’t get exactly what i wanted 100% of the time, but i still got it most of the time, and it was a damn sight more engaging then any combat 3D Zelda had up to that point, like it actually required effort and for you to pay attention and know what kind of slash needed or a stab or whatever. That’s a biiiig step up from all the 3D games before it imo.

I honestly hope Nintendo doesn’t give up on it. It’s kinda rough in SS but it’s workable and with improvements would really really cool. When a game changes the rules it’s usually rough, but if they have the guts to stick with it it could be something sweet i think.

687

Hell to the yes, a man who understands the joys of Sailing.

688

I like Twilight Princess-this was blasphemous on SRK from 2006-2010 at least. Not sure if anything has changed.

689

It’s probably still blasphemous, but it’s your opinion. I personally was really disappointed with Twilight Princess simply because it was far too straightforward and was trying too hard to be ‘more epic’ than Ocarina of Time. I’m in the camp that thinks OoT is overrated as hell. A massive step forward in 3D adventure game mechanics? Absolutely. The greatest game(Zelda or otherwise) ever? No way.

Majora’s Mask was a far, far superior game and it never gets the respect it deserves. A Zelda game that actually makes me give a shit about all these random NPCs? With an amazing time traveling game mechanic(defrauding the bank was so much fun)? Replay value out the ass? An awesome gameplay system involving the masks that were introduced in OoT? Multiple forms(i.e. playable characters)? An actually involving and deep storyline with morbid, mature(for a Zelda game anyway) theme? Yes. Thank you, Majora’s Mask.

To this day, when people ask me what my favorite Zelda is, I always say Majora’s Mask hands down. Then comes A Link to the Past, The Wind Waker, Link’s Awakening, and the Oracle games. Those are the best Zeldas to me personally. I also, like Specs have a soft spot for Zelda 2, as well, lol. I still need to go back and complete Skyward Sword, but it was really growing on me before I got sidetracked. I think it’s really good from what I have completed so far (I’m currently about to enter the Ancient Cistern dungeon for that Water Dragon).

If they completely revamp that Wind Waker remake, and put the missing dungeons/sidequests back in and get rid of that stupid ass Triforce hunt, Wind Waker may find itself giving Majora some actual competition for that title of “Po’s Favorite Zelda Game”…

690

I thought Twilight Princess was great. This is probably because I wasn’t annoyed that much by Wolf Link. I enjoyed the atmosphere of the Twilight world, and the darker feel of the game.

This is one of the first questions that a person should ask themselves when thinking about the quality of a game’s story. Do I give a shit about the NPCs?

Also Zelda 2 needs a LOT more love. I would literally be willing to play through it 15 times before playing through OoT once. That game truly felt like an adventure. You couldn’t just load up on bottles and faries, nope. You had to not get hit, and ration out life spells and magic bottles. Zelda 2 was the only game like this. No easy way to backtrack and recover health. I doubt there will ever really be a game like this again where you’re “surviving off of the land” hoping to get that one magic bottle to cast life, or get to a town or have a farie encounter. I also liked the platforming aspect. I’m trying to remember how well SS did this, but I liked having to make jumps and fight this way.

Looking back on Skyward Sword in my mind it was a truly great game, but was marred by its awful control scheme, and the reuse of some of the locales was a bit irksome, but… understandable… kind of.

691

A Link to the Past, Best Zelda. No question.

692

I’ve only beaten a handful of Zeldas. Here is my ranking: I apologize for the rant, but this is the zelda thread. I think each Zelda game is better than the next.

  1. Twilight Princess- I fell in love with this game. I played it to 18 hours, and thought I did something wrong that would have prevented me from getting 100 percent so I restarted the whole game and play it 27 more hours to beat it. I thought the pacing was nice. The wolf link didn’t feel like a chore to me. I got 100% on everything and I played it non stop from start to finish. The only gripe was that it was the easiest zelda. However, I thought the music was great. The level design was great. The story was great. The horse riding was great. The cut scenes was great. I thought the weapons were awesome, but you only use them in that section of the game. I must have replayed the forest and fire temple 5 times because I thought the fire temple was awesome… I don’t see how OOT fans can hate on TP. After I beat the game, I stocked up on the best equipment and did the Cave of Ordeals challenge. I got to the very last floor, used all my potions and had 1 quarter of a heart left. I needed to kill two more enemies and it was the most intense thing but I did it without getting hit again. It was epic to say the least. At one time, I put it as my number 3 game of all time. I tried to go back to it a few year later but it’s not enjoyable anymore.

  2. Skyward Sword-objectively, probably better overall than TP, which is why it got higher aggregate scores if I’m not mistaken. However, it was a bit tedious at times. The forest, water, fire theme on repeat got old to me. However, it was the longest zelda game for me at around 50-60 hours. I thought the first desert dungeon was very creative. I didn’t have a problem with the waggle except at the beginning. Zelda was very developed. One of the most emotional zelda games. After I beat it, I never went back.

  3. A link to the past-I never beat this game until the mid 2000s, but I can see why people hold it such regard. It was such a huge leap from Zelda 1. I’ve definitely beat it more than once. Great music. This is the quinsential (sp?) zelda.

  4. Four swords adventures for gamecube-second best 2d zelda imo next to a link to the past.

  5. Ocarina of Time-the graphics were insane for its time. It took me a long ass time to beat it as I was never that into it. I tried replaying the game on Wii and only made it to Jabu Jabu’s belly. I bought the game for 3ds and the graphics are nicer but only made it to the forest temple. This game has not aged well at all. Very overrated in my opinion.

  6. Zelda 1

Other good zelda games I’ve played were Link’s Awakening and Minish Cap. I couldn’t quite get into Wind Waker because of the structure and sailing, but it was beautiful to look at. I never played majora’s mask either. I guess I didn’t like OOT that much so I didn’t get MM a chance.

693

I can’t really explain why I enjoyed OoT as much as I did when I first played it without going into probably paragraphs of stuff…which I’m not going to do. It’s all pretty much going to boil down to opinion…I believe saying OoT is NOT a good game is harsh as all hell though. The biggest contribution that game gave was Z-Targeting.

I don’t believe I mentioned this guy in this thread before for some odd reason but I have mentioned him in the Game Music thread but Artificial Fear does some really nice metal covers of Zelda songs.

Spirit Temple/Requiem of Spirit
Sources: Spirit Temple, Requiem of Spirit

Nocturne of Shadow/Shadow Temple
Sources: Shadow Temple, Nocturne of Shadow

Kaepora Gaebora
Sources: Kaepora Gaebora, Zelda’s Lullaby

Forest Temple
Sources: Forest Temple
Ganon Battle
Sources: Last Battle, Escape From Ganon’s Castle

Song of Time
Sources: Temple of Time, Song of Time, Song of Double Time, Inverted Song of Time

Music was really important for OoT and for me it made an immediate impact and stayed with me. Also I’ll throw in some of my other favorites of his that aren’t strictly OoT.

Ballad of the Goddess
Sources: Ballad of the Goddess, Zelda’s Lullaby

Clock Town Medley
Sources: Clock Town Day 1, Clock Town Day 2, Clock Town Day 3
Final Hours
Sources: Final Hours w/ Bells

The Monster’s Raid
Sources: Ghost Attack

Dark World Theme
Sources: Dark World

Dragon Roost Island
Sources: Dragon Roost Island

Pirate Fortress
Sources: Pirates’ Fortress, Song of Storms

694

A Link to the Past, Link’s Awakening, and Zelda 1 >> all the 3D Zelda’s. 3D Zelda’s got old fast, because the combat never really changed since OoT.

2D Zelda > 3D.

695

don’t get me wrong i liked the combat in skyward sword A LOT i want them to keep it that way for future zeldas.
personally i never really had problems with the motion controls.
The story was really great (second to MM), the temples were great ,but i didn’t like how linear this one became, dowsing was a huge turn off.
When compared to all other entries in the series i just find it odd to hear someone say the ones i listed.

can’t argue about what game felt larger to you ,but there are many other significant locations to consider.

which is your favorite zelda btw?

i would like to hear your point of view.

696

Got Hyrule Historia today. Easily worth the $20. A few quick notes. Most of the art is from the more recent games which isn’t surprising since they might not have the older art. The book can be roughly split into fourths with 1/4 focusing on SS, another on the overall history and the rest is art mainly from the newer games. Also, the timeline is the same as it was in the Japanese version.

One thing I that wish was in there was more about the master sword itself. I’d like to know a bit more about how it was designed and its development & changes throughout the games.

697

Fixed. Otherwise agreed.

698

As I’ve posted in the thread before I like Twilight Princess. I’d probably play Twilight Princess again before I played Ocarina. Not that i think Ocarina is a bad game, i think it’s highly influential (Like Sonichuman pointed out it pretty much defined what a good lock on system should be for example) but I think every 3D Zelda that’s come out after OOT has been OOT but better. Aside from Skyward Sword they all play the same but each one after OOT takes more interesting risks. Majora’s Mask has the Time mechanics, and the crazy world that is Termina. WW has a great art style that made the world feel fresh and new, and had the sailing. I know most people don’t like it but frankly I like the Sailboat better then the horse cuz I can set it and forget it, or have a snack of something while sailing away to uncharted regions of the world. With the horse I gotta sit there drive him forward, make him down all the carrots then wait for them restore, usually in fields as big and empty as the ocean was. zZz. Twilight Princess…feels like a remake of OOT to me, but with a better more engaging story and NPCs with character, Midna>Navi by a long shot, and a combat system while still lacking any kind of depth, at least gives you options, and Hyrule feels like a real kingdom due to sheer size.

Skyward Sword I think is where the series should go in the 3D space, it’s combat is really fun once you get into it, and I liked how big and wide and exploratory each of the hubs where. They reminded me of old Zelda where danger was everywhere and there where nooks and crannies hidden everywhere. Enemies always patrolling and out to get you. The flying was fun, but the real overworld was the hubs and if they could apply that sort of dense and interesting space to explore outside the dungeons to the new game that would be wonderful. All of your tools are used through the whole adventure no matter how early you got them. I’d be stuck in a temple room for half an hour cuz the answer to the problem was a tool i got way back in Dungeon 1 and I forgot about it. I also like the real time equipment menu, this was a good decision. I guess what I really liked about SS was that finally, once again a Zelda game was demanding my attention, that I actually pay attention to what people said, that I had to pay attention to my gear cuz they didn’t shy away from dropping a puzzle on me that required I use something i hadn’t had need of for a few hours or even more at that point. That the combat demanded I pay attention to how I was fighting and who I was fighting. Hell it has a fucking hard mode. A Hard mode. Was that so hard Nintendo? Please keep hard mode, it’s a good thing!

SS is pretty linear which is too bad, but Nintendo already saying they plan to address that with the next new Zelda has my hopes rather high cuz I enjoyed the shit outta Skyward Sword. I can’t decide if I like it better then Majoras Mask or not, I really liked it hehe.

I can only ever manage to narrow my Top Zelda list to 4 games cuz i personally hate ranking things, and because i find most Zelda games to be of incredible caliber and rating that is fucking hard.

But my top 4 would be Skyward Sword, Majora’s Mask, A Link to the Past, and Zelda II. SS and MM flip flop ranking daily. shrug

699

TP was great. Speaking of, I received my physical copy of Zelda ReOrchestrated’s Twilight Symphony yesterday. It’s amazing. I strongly recommend purchasing the digital release when it becomes available.
http://i.imgur.com/2aAvqELl.jpg

As for Zelda 2, it was an excellent game, but it doesn’t really fit in at all with the rest of the series. Every other title was either top down or 3d, while Zelda 2 was mostly a sidescroller. It was a great adventure game, and I loved it. But if you look at the entire series, it was a poor Zelda game.

Skyward Sword was a lot of fun, but the controls weren’t the best. I hated having to do a poke with the sword as it never seemed to properly read my input. Flying the loftwing was terrible and while doing so there was no method to “center” the wii motion plus without pausing, which made flying a terrible experience.

700

There is nothing poor about Zelda II, it does a lot of things games still do today. It was simply a direction they didn’t wish to continue with, that doesn’t make it a poor anything.