The King of Fighters 2002: Unlimited Match Thread

[Emil]

Also Emil I just saw what you posted about Blow doll etc vs. Osmani etc…though they won bottom line is ITS ONLINE…so does it count for much? Until you realize Emil that online doesnt count for shit then its gonna be hard for you to rationalize anything else. Sure could that guy beat them in person? Of course he could..but you still won’t know FOR A CERTAINTY until they play in person!!!

I know, based on the gameplay they display offline, AND the matches they had online, that it would be a similar result if they played offline.

Online isn’t meaningless, you just have to evaluate if it looks like there is any lag. Look at Dakou, no one would ever imagine he was playing online if they ran into some of his ggpo matches but it never said “GGPO” or “online” in the title of the video.

[Dark_Geese]

ppl who play top tiers chars, they,at least, like them?
i mean…why choose top chars when u dont like’em?just because it easier and they make u feel stronger?
never understood it
i can speak for online playing (with 2k2 og of course), and 99% of the time the team i’ve against is KIM,IORI,another one… when i ask them if they like those chars, they normally say “no, but they are top so i can win easily”… i’m not a high level player, maybe avarage, and i have difficulty to beat them with my team (ralf, clark, choi), especially if someone DO know how to use Kim (at least they learn him xD)… but when they tell me that they choose them because they are top (ok, iori no xD) i usually do: -_-
i think the best is to choose a char that u like, wherever in the tierlist she/he is… am i wrong?

Some people do pick them just because others pick them. I refuse to pick characters that dont fit my style. I may learn them just so I know how to fight against them, but if they dont fit my style I dont use them all it is to it!

Emil- Bottom line, though what u say may be true, I still prefer to see it in person to rule out all possibilities that’s all I’m saying. I’m promoting Raging Storm El Paso 2010 right now though its 4 months away so I can try to capitalize on the hype NDP 2k9 brought as an international tournament, so if I can get some Japanese over I will…and if I can get Osmani and them over I will!!

[Hatred_Edge]

ppl who play top tiers chars, they,at least, like them?
i mean…why choose top chars when u dont like’em?just because it easier and they make u feel stronger?
never understood it
i can speak for online playing (with 2k2 og of course), and 99% of the time the team i’ve against is KIM,IORI,another one… when i ask them if they like those chars, they normally say “no, but they are top so i can win easily”… i’m not a high level player, maybe avarage, and i have difficulty to beat them with my team (ralf, clark, choi), especially if someone DO know how to use Kim (at least they learn him xD)… but when they tell me that they choose them because they are top (ok, iori no xD) i usually do: -_-

These are my thoughts on the subject:

I would be actually surprised if any KOF tier whores actually like their characters. The worse part is that they CAN win without top tiers. No one will ever say Dakou couldn’t wreck face unless he tier whored. It’s just that top tiers(in KOF) have always been those that take advantage of/abuse the system, benefit the greatly from it, and can fair damn well without it. And since KOF is dominated by powerful hops it makes things a bit linear and sorta kills character diversity. Robert in 98 is strong character. He just doesn’t have powerful tools on par with Kyo and Iori and doesn’t gain as much as they do once he has meter. People fear Iori and Kyo with meter a lot more than Robert with meter.

i think the best is to choose a char that u like, wherever in the tierlist she/he is… am i wrong?

No. That’s a fine way to think. You just happen to be playing a series in which one thing(hops) play a HUGE undeniable dominant role. I myself pick characters that suit my tastes. I think King and K’ in 2002UM are in their best form. Being some of my favorite characters, I play them. They only way I won’t is if they lack the tools I like. Case in point being K’ not having Ein trigger>Black out and Low B being able to cancel into specials in 2002.

The only thing I want to know is what started this whole tier whoring thing. It became so huge that there is almost no talk of balance and matchups. Coming from Guilty Gear and Street Fighter, balance and (especially)matchups is important. You simply could not ignore matchups in those games.

[Dark_Geese]

These are my thoughts on the subject:

The only thing I want to know is what started this whole tier whoring thing. It became so huge that there is almost no talk of balance and matchups. Coming from Guilty Gear and Street Fighter, balance and (especially)matchups is important. You simply could not ignore matchups in those games.

Here in the USA I’ve noticed its laziness, lack of dedication, and ignorance. I’ve said it before, less people want to learn the games, they just wanna pick the tiers and win. It’s fine to pick whoever you wanna pick as long as you thoroughly learn the game, but I just don’t see that anymore. It’s a cultural thing.

[Tech_Romancer]

These are my thoughts on the subject:

I would be actually surprised if any KOF tier whores actually like their characters. The worse part is that they CAN win without top tiers. No one will ever say Dakou couldn’t wreck face unless he tier whored. It’s just that top tiers(in KOF) have always been those that take advantage of/abuse the system, benefit the greatly from it, and can fair damn well without it. And since KOF is dominated by powerful hops it makes things a bit linear and sorta kills character diversity. Robert in 98 is strong character. He just doesn’t have powerful tools on par with Kyo and Iori and doesn’t gain as much as they do once he has meter. People fear Iori and Kyo with meter a lot more than Robert with meter.

No. That’s a fine way to think. You just happen to be playing a series in which one thing(hops) play a HUGE undeniable dominant role. I myself pick characters that suit my tastes. I think King and K’ in 2002UM are in their best form. Being some of my favorite characters, I play them. They only way I won’t is if they lack the tools I like. Case in point being K’ not having Ein trigger>Black out and Low B being able to cancel into specials in 2002.

The only thing I want to know is what started this whole tier whoring thing. It became so huge that there is almost no talk of balance and matchups. Coming from Guilty Gear and Street Fighter, balance and (especially)matchups is important. You simply could not ignore matchups in those games.

At least you don’t play MvC2.

Tier and unbalance is so rife in that game, idiots actually made a low-tier thread for it in the online match forums. Now that’s silly.

[fiol]

These are my thoughts on the subject:

I would be actually surprised if any KOF tier whores actually like their characters. The worse part is that they CAN win without top tiers. No one will ever say Dakou couldn’t wreck face unless he tier whored. It’s just that top tiers(in KOF) have always been those that take advantage of/abuse the system, benefit the greatly from it, and can fair damn well without it. And since KOF is dominated by powerful hops it makes things a bit linear and sorta kills character diversity. Robert in 98 is strong character. He just doesn’t have powerful tools on par with Kyo and Iori and doesn’t gain as much as they do once he has meter. People fear Iori and Kyo with meter a lot more than Robert with meter.

No. That’s a fine way to think. You just happen to be playing a series in which one thing(hops) play a HUGE undeniable dominant role. I myself pick characters that suit my tastes. I think King and K’ in 2002UM are in their best form. Being some of my favorite characters, I play them. They only way I won’t is if they lack the tools I like. Case in point being K’ not having Ein trigger>Black out and Low B being able to cancel into specials in 2002.

“hops” are very important but i can’t use them as i’d like to… i can hop but not the way it should be.
it’s for this reason that i dont pick chars for combos… i prefer grapplers, although i can do some combos with them :wonder:

[system]

I’m still rolling over the suggestion that the highest played KOF is in asia lol…not to say they are not good but they still got some tricks to learn before I’d consider them on par with mexico.

[the_judge]

lol, I’ve finally convinced myself to play chars I like in KOF.
Come on, if Kuroda can own half the world of 3s with Q, then it’s quite possible.

On the “World vs Asia” debate, I call it cowardice. Some of the passion that you find in Asia in not as existent in the U.S. Tier whoring or not, we gotta put in as much work (which is too difficult with the lack of arcades and netcoding)

[krazykone123]

Random discovery, Ramon’s df B combos into his HSDM, shits so boss I might have to make this guy my #3…

[Dark_Geese]

lol, I’ve finally convinced myself to play chars I like in KOF.
Come on, if Kuroda can own half the world of 3s with Q, then it’s quite possible.

On the “World vs Asia” debate, I call it cowardice. Some of the passion that you find in Asia in not as existent in the U.S. Tier whoring or not, we gotta put in as much work (which is too difficult with the lack of arcades and netcoding)

Goes the same for Latin America…they put the work in to play other characters…when most just play the tiers…which leads to a biased POV that only certain tiers run the games…because that’s all you see…which is quite frankly…

I-G-N-O-R-A-N-C-E.

EVO- In all honesty it’s a tossup…we won’t know for sure until we see. Plus we gotta include all of Latin America vs. All of Asia, meaning not just Mexico, but Brazil and other places. NDP was just the beginning, in due time…

[rukawa_kaede]

I think what has kept me from using top tiers is the thought that “there’s always room for improvement”

watching videos on youtube or playing games online with people who use the same characters as me. I often say “hey, this clark is better than my clark” or “I didn’t know you could do that”. That’s when I think my characters can still grow and I can still make use of them.

[Emil]

Random discovery, Ramon’s df B combos into his HSDM, shits so boss I might have to make this guy my #3…

It combos into all DMs(assuming you’re in range for the grab one) and it doesn’t have to be cancelled into.

Also lol at Asia not knowing tricks that Mexicans use…firstly, it’s quite the opposite and secondly, a lot of the tricks you see Mexicans use, aren’t used in Japan because the counters to them are already known. Also there’s many fundamental offensive (and defensive) techniques used by asians that Mexico does not use that would make them a lot more dangerous if they did.

Evo, do you seriously follow both scenes?

Besides the evidence displayed by both country’s gameplay, most likely the only way they will play each other is online and so far, Hammer and blowback doll has destroyed every mexican they have played, including osmani and winnie. It’s not clear how much lag there was but both countries were doing Angel infinites. Also, it wasn’t simply one country beating another, it was a complete blowout (12-1, 20-2, 10-0, 11-4). Looks pretty convincing right now.

Matches are on youtube, search for Blowback(blowblack mispelt) vs. osmani/winnie/PIZZA, Hummer vs. NUTS(this one looked laggy though and NUTS took advantage, stealing a few wins)

[l2slythe]

All i know is if the matches were online the mexicans aren’t able to implementing their dirty tricks. But still… online? Still not the same deal or the same mentality as playing someone next to you. if you play someone next to you, you have an idea of how good the person is and what he’s going to do. Emil have you ever played in a tournament (which you didn’t necessarily have to travel out of the country) or for that fact played against another person next to you competitively? Lol a buddy of mine asks if you’re even a real person? Do you even really play these games? Who knows… who knows…

[the_judge]

All i know is if the matches were online the mexicans aren’t able to implementing their dirty tricks. But still… online? Still not the same deal or the same mentality as playing someone next to you. if you play someone next to you, you have an idea of how good the person is and what he’s going to do. Emil have you ever played in a tournament (which you didn’t necessarily have to travel out of the country) or for that fact played against another person next to you competitively? Lol a buddy of mine asks if you’re even a real person? Do you even really play these games? Who knows… who knows…

This is actually very true, I’ve screwed up a lot of alternate guards on GGPO yet at a local laundromat (laundromat + 2k2 = Ghetto Awesomeness) it is easier. lol, the regulars aren’t that bad.

[09er]

In 98um its not always Krauser-Geese-Iori. Seriously where are you getting this from (Please don’t tell me just watching Asian videos, as good as they are I dont believe in limiting myself to their style only)? I wanna know where are you just seeing Krauser-Iori-Geese ONLY in 98UM? This is just as bad as saying KOFXI is only KGO am I right? Have you NEVER seen people play EX Yuri, regular Yuri, Eiji, Kyo, Kim, O. Yashiro, or others and RANK HIGH?

Yeah, it’s from Asian videos. I seriously think Asia > rest of the world.

---

Also, I don’t think Mexicans play dirty, I think Asians play dirty, they utilize EVERYTHING to win, and the thing is, it’s not seen as “cheap” in Asia, but it’s the norm. I was watching a Chinese 98 Tournament, and some guy used the Athena levitate bug when he had more life, and while waiting for the timer, he was having a conversation with his opponent.

[Hatred_Edge]

they utilize EVERYTHING to win

Um… that’s what you’re supposed to do. Use every tool within the game to attain victory. I played Tekken 6 today. I had over a 50% life advantage. I backed off and sat my ass there. If my opponent wanted to take me down, he better step to me and know how to break my defense.

They play to win and they will do so by any means they see fit that’s legal. If you’re not using what you have, that’s pretty much holding back.

[l2slythe]

I hear if you play random people in HK and you throw them you’ll get your ass beat literally. Anyone know anything about this?

[Dark_Geese]

Matches are on youtube, search for Blowback(blowblack mispelt) vs. osmani/winnie/PIZZA, Hummer vs. NUTS(this one looked laggy though and NUTS took advantage, stealing a few wins)

Here are the vids:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Blowblack+vs.+Osmani&search_type=&aq=f

I’ll watch them and chime in later. (If it wasnt for Lebron +Shaq vs. the Celts I wouldve been watched them lol)

But even then Emil, you say it’s not gonna happen. Do you not realize it’s my goal to make this happen? Do you not realize this is what I’ve been like put on this earth to do?? That past tourney in El Paso made me realize I’m gonna die trying to find out the best KOF/SNK players in the world if it kills me and my bank account. So are you saying this will never happen because I’m saying it WILL. One small step at a time.

Also if there is even a small amount of lag despite being able to do Angel infinites that invalidates the whole match Emil.

Plus Emil we have spoken to Osmani etc and if we get the Japanese over here they have said they WILL get their passports!!

All i know is if the matches were online the mexicans aren’t able to implementing their dirty tricks. But still… online? Still not the same deal or the same mentality as playing someone next to you. if you play someone next to you, you have an idea of how good the person is and what he’s going to do. Emil have you ever played in a tournament (which you didn’t necessarily have to travel out of the country) or for that fact played against another person next to you competitively? Lol a buddy of mine asks if you’re even a real person? Do you even really play these games? Who knows… who knows…

Reynald is right here. Reynald can you imagine if you and me played Winners Finals of KOFXII ONLINE instead of in person? OH GOD…you wouldnt have hit me with that damn Shen combo hahahaa!! :lol: I wouldve got you with Iori lag tactics hahahah!

[media=youtube]IGUENNcnsl8[/media]

This is actually very true, I’ve screwed up a lot of alternate guards on GGPO yet at a local laundromat (laundromat + 2k2 = Ghetto Awesomeness) it is easier. lol, the regulars aren’t that bad.

Emil, Reynald and The Judge are right…

Yeah, it’s from Asian videos. I seriously think Asia > rest of the world.

---

Also, I don’t think Mexicans play dirty, I think Asians play dirty, they utilize EVERYTHING to win, and the thing is, it’s not seen as “cheap” in Asia, but it’s the norm. I was watching a Chinese 98 Tournament, and some guy used the Athena levitate bug when he had more life, and while waiting for the timer, he was having a conversation with his opponent.

Still have u remotely watched any other videos??? Asia COULD be better than the rest of the world but you have yet to open your horizons to see what the rest have to offer…thats where there’s fallacy in your argument. Even within Asia there’s different styles and they don’t all play KGI in 98UM, but if you aint going there and you’re just going off yt/bp.com/youku/other asian site vids you are STILL missing the big picture. Man I could write a fucking thesis paper about how little videos tell the full story based on my trips alone to Mexico…

KOF is the most played fighting game in the world. Only game thats right there with it is Tekken itself. So you gonna tell me you are gonna limit yourself to one area of play watching videos when you could be seeing play from nearly EVERY COUNTRY??

Um… that’s what you’re supposed to do. Use every tool within the game to attain victory. I played Tekken 6 today. I had over a 50% life advantage. I backed off and sat my ass there. If my opponent wanted to take me down, he better step to me and know how to break my defense.

They play to win and they will do so by any means they see fit that’s legal. If you’re not using what you have, that’s pretty much holding back.

The truth !!!

I hear if you play random people in HK and you throw them you’ll get your ass beat literally. Anyone know anything about this?

Hahahah I dont know Reynald but there’s only one way to find out…PLANE TRIP!!

[Monkey_King]

I hear if you play random people in HK and you throw them you’ll get your ass beat literally. Anyone know anything about this?

I also heard they start random street fights whenever someone plays “Kung Fu Fighting” in the background. It’s just part of their culture I assume.

[system]

I’m not saying online is trash, but online vs offline are 2 dfferent things. I’m a online player myself, but even I will admit it is not the most accurate form to gauge ability and talent.