The King of Fighters 2002: Unlimited Match Thread

[krazykone123]

We all know 98 and 2002 are broken. And 98UM has balance issues, Krauser/Geese, anyone?

Uhhh… no…

[Dark_Geese]

As far as competitive play goes, 2K2UM is the best hands down.

We all know 98 and 2002 are broken. And 98UM has balance issues, Krauser/Geese, anyone?

Whats your basis for all of this? 98 and 2002 being too broken? What’s your argument for this? And be prepared to have a strong argument because mine is gonna be pretty strong…

Same for 98UM, Krauser, Geese, and Iori aren’t unbeatable or close to it. Ever heard of Yuri,Kyo, Orochi Chris, Eiji, O. Yashiro, Daimon, EX Mary also being in the tier list??

Also if 98 and 2002 were soo broken why are they the most played KOF games???

[Hatred_Edge]

This is gonna be good.

[09er]

Uhhh… no…

Uhh… yes

Whats your basis for all of this? 98 and 2002 being too broken? What’s your argument for this? And be prepared to have a strong argument because mine is gonna be pretty strong…

Same for 98UM, Krauser, Geese, and Iori aren’t unbeatable or close to it. Ever heard of Yuri,Kyo, Orochi Chris, Eiji, O. Yashiro, Daimon, EX Mary also being in the tier list??

Also if 98 and 2002 were soo broken why are they the most played KOF games???

2002 and 98 has several infinite combos… though the infinites are extremely hard to do in 98. Then there’s things like bugs, etc.

I’ve been playing KOF for long and I still play it, I just prefer 02UM for competitive play.

[Hatred_Edge]

02UM has high damage combos. Like easy 70-90% combos. Nameless for instance.

And I know you’re not talking about bugs when 02UM has bugs that REMOVE characters from the screen permanently. It’s highly unlikely that it will happen but it’s there. Shit, it has several bugs at that. All KOFs do. You can’t complain about Krauser and Geese in 98UM. You think people don’t tier whore in 02UM? Why do you think there’s so many K’ players all of a sudden? The decline in Athena/Billy/Kim/Choi when they aren’t even bad characters?

If you’re going to complain about bugs, infinites, and tier whoring you might as well quit KOF now. Those things have always been around. 2002UM isn’t free of those things.

[09er]

02UM has high damage combos. Like easy 70-90% combos. Nameless for instance.

And I know you’re not talking about bugs when 02UM has bugs that REMOVE characters from the screen permanently. It’s highly unlikely that it will happen but it’s there. Shit, it has several bugs at that. All KOFs do. You can’t complain about Krauser and Geese in 98UM. You think people don’t tier whore in 02UM? Why do you think there’s so many K’ players all of a sudden? The decline in Athena/Billy/Kim/Choi when they aren’t even bad characters?

If you’re going to complain about bugs, infinites, and tier whoring you might as well quit KOF now. Those things have always been around. 2002UM isn’t free of those things.

All KOF games has high damage combos, so I don’t disagree there.

Bugs don’t really bother me, but they are highly abused in 98 for sure.

[Emil]

All KOF games has high damage combos, so I don’t disagree there.

Bugs don’t really bother me, but they are highly abused in 98 for sure.

The main abusable bugs in 98 are unblockables (with Athena and a few other characters) and the Daimon earthquake. Daimon’s earthquake bug has become a staple combo now, just think of it as a high damage combo and not a bug. The fireball unblockables aren’t deadly enough to be an issue (the characters that can make use of them easily, are pretty low on the tierlists anyway).

[Dark_Geese]

Uhh… yes

2002 and 98 has several infinite combos… though the infinites are extremely hard to do in 98. Then there’s things like bugs, etc.

I’ve been playing KOF for long and I still play it, I just prefer 02UM for competitive play.

Okay, and how practical are most of these infinites? That’s the catch. Also both games even with these infinites are quite balanced overall. Bugs? Okay what about them? Nearly every game has bugs…so what’s your point?

02UM has high damage combos. Like easy 70-90% combos. Nameless for instance.

And I know you’re not talking about bugs when 02UM has bugs that REMOVE characters from the screen permanently. It’s highly unlikely that it will happen but it’s there. Shit, it has several bugs at that. All KOFs do. You can’t complain about Krauser and Geese in 98UM. You think people don’t tier whore in 02UM? Why do you think there’s so many K’ players all of a sudden? The decline in Athena/Billy/Kim/Choi when they aren’t even bad characters?

If you’re going to complain about bugs, infinites, and tier whoring you might as well quit KOF now. Those things have always been around. 2002UM isn’t free of those things.

This is true, in Asia you’ll see almost nothing but K’ players…and yes K is top tier. This guy is right, if you are gonna complain then quite frankly stop wasting your time. If you like 2k2UM that’s one thing…just say that and leave it at that.

All KOF games has high damage combos, so I don’t disagree there.

Bugs don’t really bother me, but they are highly abused in 98 for sure.

The main abusable bugs in 98 are unblockables (with Athena and a few other characters) and the Daimon earthquake. Daimon’s earthquake bug has become a staple combo now, just think of it as a high damage combo and not a bug. The fireball unblockables aren’t deadly enough to be an issue (the characters that can make use of them easily, are pretty low on the tierlists anyway).

This is the truth right here…anything else you wanna add 09er? Sounds like you are looking for reasons to just not like the games, which if you are you’ll find them… that’s what I see…

[09er]

Okay, and how practical are most of these infinites? That’s the catch. Also both games even with these infinites are quite balanced overall. Bugs? Okay what about them? Nearly every game has bugs…so what’s your point?

This is true, in Asia you’ll see almost nothing but K’ players…and yes K is top tier. This guy is right, if you are gonna complain then quite frankly stop wasting your time. If you like 2k2UM that’s one thing…just say that and leave it at that.

This is the truth right here…anything else you wanna add 09er? Sounds like you are looking for reasons to just not like the games, which if you are you’ll find them… that’s what I see…

In 2k2 infinites are easy to perform… in 98 however they’re extremely tricky… for example Ryo’s or EX Iori’s, etc. In high level play of KOF98, bugs are commonly exploited, you can’t really call it cheap or anything like that, I don’t like it but it doesn’t bother me.

At least the teams are K and two other characters… In 98um it’s always krauser/geese/iori

I love KOF, however I still believe 2002um is the best for competitive play right now. I think 98 is the best KOF though, it’s a classic

:china:

[Leebee_Link]

hahahaha

[Dark_Geese]

In 2k2 infinites are easy to perform… in 98 however they’re extremely tricky… for example Ryo’s or EX Iori’s, etc. In high level play of KOF98, bugs are commonly exploited, you can’t really call it cheap or anything like that, I don’t like it but it doesn’t bother me.

At least the teams are K and two other characters… In 98um it’s always krauser/geese/iori

I love KOF, however I still believe 2002um is the best for competitive play right now. I think 98 is the best KOF though, it’s a classic

:china:

Angel’s infinite in 2k2 would be the most practical one, but thats one of a few. In 98 yeah they are tough as hell and if you can get them more power to you.

In 98um its not always Krauser-Geese-Iori. Seriously where are you getting this from (Please don’t tell me just watching Asian videos, as good as they are I dont believe in limiting myself to their style only)? I wanna know where are you just seeing Krauser-Iori-Geese ONLY in 98UM? This is just as bad as saying KOFXI is only KGO am I right? Have you NEVER seen people play EX Yuri, regular Yuri, Eiji, Kyo, Kim, O. Yashiro, or others and RANK HIGH?

Look at these videos here, this is an OLD SCHOOL 98 PLAYER playing 98UM for the first time vs. a seasoned 98UM player (Mr. KOF).

[media=youtube]jyasOiZY1cU[/media]
[media=youtube]Gkrp2hMW35c[/media]

Looks like overall he’s fairing pretty good his first time…with who? Clark, O. Yash,Ralf, Iori. Where’s Krauser and Geese?

98UM like the other games are about skill…2k2UM may be the best balanced, but the others are well balanced also.

[rukawa_kaede]

if that is true then mr kof did pretty bad, he had two characters advantage since alexis didn’t know how to play against them yet geese was like a sandbag for him

[Dark_Geese]

if that is true then mr kof did pretty bad, he had two characters advantage since alexis didn’t know how to play against them yet geese was like a sandbag for him

Mr. KOF still won overall 3-0 in 98UM, and Alexis won in regular 98 vs. him 3-2. Bottom line is it’s about skill overall, not the tiers, 98UM is about skill.

[Emil]

Mr. KOF still won overall 3-0 in 98UM, and Alexis won in regular 98 vs. him 3-2. Bottom line is it’s about skill overall, not the tiers, 98UM is about skill.

Tier lists are different at lower skill levels…Mr. Kof and that other guy are weak players compared to the level in which the tierlists are most applicable to.

[Dark_Geese]

Tier lists are different at lower skill levels…Mr. Kof and that other guy are weak players compared to the level in which the tierlists are most applicable to.

But no offense Emil but how would you know this if you don’t travel? In defense of Mr. KOF and Alexis, I’ve actually seen these people play in person. So are you also saying Kane9999 and Mr. KOF are weak in comparison to the tier lists they are compared to as well in KOFXI?

Also I thought you knew that there are different tier lists in different countries. Just because Japan says its the tier list doesnt mean its the end all be all.

Have you seen these SBO level players in person? 1up would have a better argument than you because he’s actually been to Japan.

Your argument would have better basis if you travelled Emil. With all due respect to playing online, quite frankly playing in person gives you a much different perspective.

Plus if anything bottom line is this- Nothing is ever concrete…it’s all about matchups…I thought NDP illustrated that to everyone CLEARLY…we may be the “Americans everyone steps on” but we made a good showing for ourselves vs. Northern Mexico. Why? Matchups!

[Emil]

But no offense Emil but how would you know this if you don’t travel? In defense of Mr. KOF and Alexis, I’ve actually seen these people play in person. So are you also saying Kane9999 and Mr. KOF are weak in comparison to the tier lists they are compared to as well?

Your argument would have better basis if you travelled Emil. With all due respect to playing online, quite frankly playing in person gives you a much different perspective.

Wtf, why do I have to travel? Why didyou link to these matches if according to you, it isn’t possible to tell of their skill unless you play them? When you linked these matches, you were trying to make a statement about their skill. However, what you had probably considered skillful from viewing the videos, I considered not skillful compared to the high level (players from Japan/China).

Man, just watch the videos again and actually analyze it for once. Also I can understand how just a few videos might not tell the entire story, but if you go by that, then how are we supposed to tell anything from the video that YOU linked to?

Also I thought you knew that there are different tier lists in different countries. Just because Japan says its the tier list doesnt mean its the end all be all.

Some tier lists are due to lack of knowledge/ability. Mexico’s tier lists are less valid than Japan’s, they are still stuck at some basic things and haven’t developed some of their techniques to that of Japan’s…you don’t even see mexicans attempt alternate guard and thus get stuck in those basic tick throw mindgames. You hardly see them using low attacks as anti-air and so you see them struggling to beat players that jump around a lot with horizontal attacks(Iori jump D), which gets destroyed by most low B combos.

Have you seen these SBO level players in person? 1up would have a better argument than you because he’s actually been to Japan.

Nope but I’ve played some…who cares?

Also for your information, blowback doll (who is really just an uppermid japanese player, beat osmani 12-1, winnie 20-2, NUTS 10-0, etc etc. He embarassed them, they were afraid to attack.

[Dark_Geese]

Wtf, why do I have to travel? Why didyou link to these matches if according to you, it isn’t possible to tell of their skill unless you play them? When you linked these matches, you were trying to make a statement about their skill. However, what you had probably considered skillful from viewing the videos, I considered not skillful compared to the high level (players from Japan/China).

Man, just watch the videos again and actually analyze it for once. Also I can understand how just a few videos might not tell the entire story, but if you go by that, then how are we supposed to tell anything from the video that YOU linked to?

1. I was trying to make a basic statement that it doesn’t matter about the tiers, it’s about the skill. Geese-Iori-Krauser don’t rule 98UM, I was showing that it is possible that they can beaten if someone just knows how to play with other characters. Then you had to come in and as usual jockride Asian matches as superior. If you agree that is hard to tell too much from videos, how can you say overall that the Asians would beat us? It’s the same argument…no one knows for sure unless they play in person.

2. Who says I consider them “skillful” overall. You think I havent seen better matches in 98UM? Emil I’ve seen all the matches in 98UM that you have and believe me I’ve seen BETTER MATCHES. My bottom line was GIK dont rule 98UM and not everyone plays them and just because you dont play them doesn’t mean you can’t have success. That’s the bottom line. You see Geese losing upfront in the matches clearly…Krauser barely survives in the first one as well. I think people that rely on the tier issue and refuse to see otherwise are narrow minded, dont travel much, and dont like hard work.

[Emil]

1. I was trying to make a basic statement that it doesn’t matter about the tiers, it’s about the skill.

Well tiers assume an equal skill level by both players anyway, and that the skill level should be high.

If you agree that is hard to tell too much from videos, how can you say overall that the Asians would beat us? It’s the same argument…no one knows for sure unless they play in person.

I never agreed to that, I just went along with it to show that your video proved nothing iff your statement about not beinga ble to tell from videos, was true. I believe you can tell a lot of things from videos, but just a few could be misleading.

I think people that rely on the tier issue and refuse to see otherwise are narrow minded, dont travel much, and dont like hard work.

I agree to this as well of course, but linking that video didn’t prove it at all. When two players who aren’t masters with their characters, play each other, the results can be more “random” than if they were masters of those characters.

Either way, I’m not really into tiers but it’s obvious they exist and have some impact on the games. My kof2k2 team (you can add choi to it) is high tier but I didn’t start with this team. The team was formed from watching many match videos and experimenting with all the characters and noticing how the characters in my team now, just have a lot of options that others don’t. FOr example, did it ever occur toyou that Kim’s crazy close C(2 frames) can be done maybe a frame or few before the opponent lands to the ground, eliminating any attempt to mix Kim up with empty jumps into lows? It just eliminates that whole mixup, and even worse, close C is so easy to hit confirm into huge damage. Kim in 2k2, has a lot of tools against practically everything the opponent throws at you.

[Dark_Geese]

Well tiers assume an equal skill level by both players anyway, and that the skill level should be high.

I never agreed to that, I just went along with it to show that your video proved nothing iff your statement about not beinga ble to tell from videos, was true. I believe you can tell a lot of things from videos, but just a few could be misleading.

I agree to this as well of course, but linking that video didn’t prove it at all. When two players who aren’t masters with their characters, play each other, the results can be more “random” than if they were masters of those characters.

Either way, I’m not really into tiers but it’s obvious they exist and have some impact on the games.

Well I just chose the first vids I could think about because most people that argue about a certain three in a tier list obviously dont know what they are talking about, so I agree with you, I couldve chosen better vids before without a doubt, but I think to someone that lacks exposure the vids suffice…Because they think only people can win using KGI and they cant using anyone else…

I’ve noticed this trend…people that think “Big Three” only are quite misinformed…

Also Emil I just saw what you posted about Blow doll etc vs. Osmani etc…though they won bottom line is ITS ONLINE…so does it count for much? Until you realize Emil that online doesnt count for shit then its gonna be hard for you to rationalize anything else. Sure could that guy beat them in person? Of course he could..but you still won’t know FOR A CERTAINTY until they play in person!!!

Plus don’t say it won’t happen because I got connections now to a tournament organizer in the D.F. area in Mexico, so between me, NeoPenny, and the organizer in Central/South Mexico we got nearly all of Mexico covered!

[fiol]

ppl who play top tiers chars, they,at least, like them?
i mean…why choose top chars when u dont like’em?just because it easier and they make u feel stronger?
never understood it
i can speak for online playing (with 2k2 og of course), and 99% of the time the team i’ve against is KIM,IORI,another one… when i ask them if they like those chars, they normally say “no, but they are top so i can win easily”… i’m not a high level player, maybe avarage, and i have difficulty to beat them with my team (ralf, clark, choi), especially if someone DO know how to use Kim (at least they learn him xD)… but when they tell me that they choose them because they are top (ok, iori no xD) i usually do: -_-
i think the best is to choose a char that u like, wherever in the tierlist she/he is… am i wrong?