The Kazuya Mishima Thread

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter x Tekken
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Kazuya’s DGF has an interesting property on counter hit. It puts the opponent into a wierd crumple stun. All regular versions of DGF appear to give an identical stun.

The opponent is registered standing for a few frames (just like in Tekken). Just long enough to hit either cr.MP and link cr.HP to an EWGF launch, or stand MP straight into EWGF launch or even cr.MP into Slaughter Hook (pushback is too great if you try to add cr.HP). The damage potential if you do these right is really high, with your starter being 150 damage.

However, this is only possible if you stun them at point blank range. It’ll also probably be difficult to see the stun and link these in the heat of a match.

From outside the range of cr.MP, all your moves hit them in an OTG state. The strange thing is that your normals from here don’t put them in a juggle state, they cause resets; which is a state I haven’t known to be in the game thus far.

There are a couple of follow-up options for ranges further out. Individual normals can be used if you don’t think you can react quick for better options. Blank sweep or b+HK work, but a second DGF does more damage. You can also play the reset state to your advantage to catch the opponent off guard.

More interesting still is your specials retain juggle properties. You can do TGF into the sweep kick (mid kick whiffs). This is a basic option that works well and does pretty decent damage. You can do Hell Sweeps, but they’re slower and you’re likely to whiff unless you get them out sharpish.

For some reason Rampaging Demon (b+MP,MK,LP) works here aswell and does about the same damage. Recommended for newbies.

The interesting part is you can juggle with EWGF here. You can’t do more than one, or any other specials; but you can do EWGF into sweep, and cr.MK regains juggle properties after the EWGF, allowing you to do: counter hit DGF, EWGF, cr.MK, DGF for about 380 damage, or even cr.MK to Hell Sweep for over 400. Beware that if you got WGF by accident, you get nothing after.

The most mindless and effective way to follow-up this crumple stun is with either his super or team super. They work easily from any distance and do pretty good damage. (480 and 550)

Or you can do counter hit DGF, EWGF, cr.MK to Super or Team Super for 546 and 596 respectively.

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There’s also something I want to raise here:

We all know Kazuya can run a truck over anyone he hits, and this board has discussed at length his various combo options. I want to raise some talk about his offence; the bit that helps him get to the hitting part. What tricks and mix-ups are players using to open opponents up with Kazuya?

Does he have offensive options besides the Hell Sweep mix-up and generic offence like cross-ups?

He has overheads, but neither seem to lead to anything; even with a tag cancel.

223

Nice post bout the Gutpunch (DFG as the manual puts it, GP in Tekken’s manual) potential

according to the Manual it’s Armor covers

LP Gutpunch: upper body armor frames 8-9
MP Gutpunch: upper body armor frames 11-12
HP Gutpunch: upper body armor frames 11-12
EX Gutpunch: upper body armor frames 3-21
Damage for the regulars: 120
Damage for EX: 80, 100

The LP has Armor obviously in the earlier stages presumably to use as a counter to immediate attacks, and EX if you want it safer (not sure it’s worth it at the cost of a meter since you’ll be sacrificing most of the damage potential for a follow-up TGF) has anyone tried AA-ing with this though?..

This Move has always Crumpled, it’s kinda shame only one version of this made it to SFxT :frowning:

Regular Gutpunch DF+2: makes the opponent Crumple In Tekken allowing for stricter combos upon a dash-in
Demon Gutpunch (According to the Tekken Moveset) While Rising + 2: a bit slower but stuns the opponent in a standing state giving Kaz more time to close in and combo more leniently than the regular Gutpunch.

For some reason they decided to just combine both moves (Hence Demon godfist)

but hey there was no Autoguard/Armor in The Tekken versions :stuck_out_tongue:

One puzzling thing though? If The EX Gutpunch… If it hits airborne does the TGF still come out?

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I’m honestly having a really hard time dealing with pressure with Kazuya in this game. He is decent at best against jump ins and has an extremely hard time against cross ups. The only thing he appears to have as a “get off me” tool is EX Slaughter Hook. I’m trying to play him like I’m still playing Tekken… Wavedashing almost seems useless because the opponent can just jump over it and you are left very vulnerable since you can only cancel in to WGF, EWGF, Hellsweep, or another wavedash. How are you guys dealing with people who brainlessly rush you down?

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I think you want to use EX qcb LP+HP (whatever the move name is called), as it applies push back and is safe if they block it, unlike SH which can get you into trouble.

Free jump ins or cross ups are going to make things hard for any character. His AAs can keep those out, but Kaz has trouble with jump ins of a close proximity, so I guess the best thing to do there is mist step underneath them for an escape.

226

Yeah, the kick variant. That’s the one I use. Wavedash is a good option against jump ins that are clear cross ups, but a problem I’ve been having is against jump ins that could be considered ambiguous, where they are landing just above your head. In this situation I feel cr.HP has a hard time and I feel wavedashing can be easily punished, unless I’m just that bad at this game.

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Try changing your spacing to avoid ambiguous jumps, and try blocking most of the time unless you’re certain your AA will work. I wouldn’t recommend relying on something gimmicky like wavedashing out of crossups.

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I don’t like the idea of wavedashing out of crossups, but it’s either that or sit there and deal with pressure because I don’t see any other options.

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putting yourself in position of an ambiguous cross raises the question of your spacing game. if you’re having problems with the safe jump cross up game on wake up into block string pressure – well, everyone does, shit sucks, that’s the advantage of getting a knockdown.

although in this game it seems like a blessing to get knocked down.

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I’m the one doing exactly that so I havent had to deal with it yet!

However, he does still have good footsies so you can play that game and bait them into jumping at ranges where you CAN anti-air

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Sorry, I should have been more specific. I’m not having problems with random jumps; SF4 taught me how to AA. I find it hard to defend against block strings into jump ins. I know you can just dash out of it, but I’m not used to having to do that because I used to use Sagat and I would just TU dat ish. All I’m saying is Kaz doesn’t have any free AA’s at that range and I feel this way about the majority of the Tekken cast.

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jump back fierce still works in this game too

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yeah if people are jumping behind you after block strings, you can meet them in the air.

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that’s actually a good point. I feel air to airs are much better in general.

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His cr.lk is actually really good compared to the street fighter cast. It’s fast and has long range so it’s good for punishes.

What kind of gems are people using? I don’t really see the point of the power gems cos 10% is hardly anything. Also pandora mode doesn’t seem useful with Kaz cos he has no wall bounce moves…so even if you do a ground bounce and activate, you’ll be too far out when u come in, unless you have a horizontal super like Ryu or Heihachi. That’s from my testing and theory fighting anyway.

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Why am I finding that Mist dash so hard to do on stick? I’m considering Ryu/Kazuya.

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qcb lp+hp is not the kick variant is the double punch (EX devastator), the second hit of this move pushes WAY back on block.

as far as reliable AA’s go, when they jump u should try to air-to-air roundhouse on reaction. sometimes i neutral jump roundhouse on the way up on reaction, his ground AAs trade alot.if you talking about a clean hit most of the time this is the way to go. when you see a cross up coming, do jump back round house. i know its not what your used to in sf4 but lack of godlike AA is kazuyas weakness.

238

What do you guys do to combo after a Alpha counter? I notice it whiffs a lot on certain moves mainly jump ins because of its speed.

239

I’m beginning to get lots of hate about this character (raging about his damage mainly), it’s getting frustrating this early in the game… but people will always complain ;__;

I definitely feel Kaz has the potential to be one of the best characters in the game however.

240

I wish i had the game, in an earlier page it is said that Kaz matches up with Shotos quite well, but what about his contemporaries? In almost every previous games he’s been in (Except Tekken 6 Vanilla) Kaz has always been inferior to both Heihachi and Jin (both versions) in tier lists and whatnot… (yes even in games where kaz has been considered part of the upper tier like TTT and TTT2) is his performance in this game (so far) up to par with His Dad and his son? is he once again living in their shadow?