The Inevitable Street Fighter V Story Thread: ARCADE EDITION!

I think the problem with Chun is that her arc didn’t seem really well written and probably failed to convey the story the writers had in mind for her.

Her story starts off with her losing twice in a row, and that can’t give a good impression. Losing to Bison is fine, it feels a bit like Chun was the designed victim to show off Bison’s new strength but that’s still something fairly legitimate to happen (if she had a stronger role in the story after that no one would have complained). You can understand however that Chunners can’t feel good when Rashid strolls in and unintentionally adds insult to injury.

After that I remember Chun kinda falling into the same black hole of doing-nothing-impressive-because-Karin-is-stealing-the-show that Guile and Ken fell into and never crawled back (while Cammy fortunately escaped Karin’s hungry clutches thanks to Decapre’s interference and Juri’s cross-dimensional bike). She stands around while the events unfold around her, has some decent dialogue here and there but nothing to make up for the poor showing she started off with.

Only at the end she gets into Shadaloo base, very close to Bison, but now her story takes a different turn as Chun-Li focuses on saving Li-Fen.
I think that Chun-Li’s story in ASF was always supposed to be pretty focused on the little girl as she becomes a relatively important character in SFIII and it makes sense that in SFV we see how Chun-Li and Li-Fen came to know each others, it’s important to bridge current Chun with SFIII Chun. Even in her prologue Li-Fen has a big role, which makes me think that Chun’s story in SFV was always supposed to be about she giving up revenge for good to take care of others. However I don’t think the story highlighted this properly, I don’t recall Li-Fen and Chun-Li having any notable moment together during ASF that clearly made Chun-Li’s focus saving the girl rather than generic revenge on Shadaloo, and this makes Chun’s entire arc pretty unfocused (at least, I don’t remember any strong enough scene where Chun-Li made it clear that her goal was to save Li-Fen, but it’s been a lot of time since I watched ASF, so absolutely correct me on this if I’m wrong).

At the end of this we have Chun-Li beating F.A.N.G, which unfortunately doesn’t actually feel like an impressive victory because F.A.N.G is an established punching bag in SFV in spite of the fact that he’s probably supposed to be second only to Bison and a force to be reckoned with (he has too many elements of a joke character to be taken seriously, and that’s from someone that really like F.A.N.G), and on top of that he’s also shown as weakened in that fight. Chun-Li then escapes from Shadaloo Base together with Ryu and Guile (who I agree had an even worse representation in ASF), she has saved Li-Fen but overall it still feels like her story was unsatisfying all around.

If one tries to look closer and analyze things properly then one can see that what you’re saying is true: Chun-Li has actually no small role at all, she leads the fight against Shadaloo and comes out with her goals completely fulfilled (saving Li-Fen), but because the story doesn’t highlight her efforts very much and because the Li-Fen subplot is so underdeveloped Chun’s part in the story still feels pretty weak because of how poorly executed it is. What she accomplishes in the story feels less meaningful than what it actually is, while what she doesn’t accomplish sticks out like a sore thumb. One has to go against ASF writing to get what the writers probably wanted to do with Chun-Li, and this is why Chunners are disappointed with her role in the story, not because they wanted her to destroy Bison single-handedly (maybe some do, but whatever) but because anything she accomplishes doesn’t feel any good.

And this is coming from someone that is not particularly invested in Chun-Li’s character outside of her possible interactions with Cammy.
In fact, on second thought, just screw Chun-Li, she’s been obsolete since 1993. Time for her to retire and let Cammy handle the job. B)

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Thank you for explaining that perfectly. To add on, the fact that Ryu saved her on the way out is yet another insulting moment. Also lol twice that Chun is gonna get to beat up some bad guy somebody shows up, beats them all up for her and basically says “you, go be useless somewhere else!” The worst part is when Guile had to stop her from charging at Bison in the base. It’s like she literally learned nothing from the first encounter! I legitimately do not understand why the writers included that. Just, why?

Not until Cammy stops getting her ass constantly beat by Vega, someone Chun defeated in her prologue :tongue:

^^ Thanks, dont need to add pretty much anything else to the previous posts on Chun Li’s mediocre portrayal, basically read my thoughts.

B-but Cammy beats Vega in her prologue too!
She totally forced him to give up on taking back Juni to Shadaloo!
And she does a Spiral Arrow to his face in story mode! That showed him!
A-and she beats him in Alpha 3 too, I checked the arcade dialogues and Vega didn’t just throw that match!

B-baka!

Thanks, I had to re-read over that again. They say he apparently uses it to increase the effectiveness of his headbutt…which doesn’t make too much sense (chicken bones are pretty brittle), but ok. I’ve also seen statements about him growing and extra bone on his head due to all the headbutting he does, which doesn’t make too much sense either but is kind of an interesting concept.

The core perception problem is the small quote i’ve cut above yours

“but I’ll let more dedicated Guile fans be the ones to complain”

Thing is, they don’t =)

Guile fans don’t bitch about him being turned into a crap-eater kanzuki minion, Ken’s fans don’t care about him being almost invisible, Birdie’s fans (ok that’s a stretch LOL) don’t whine about him be Doll-level crap, Rogs players don’t cry at him being an useless chump in SFV

The -insert waifu name- crowds tend to be the ones that get on outrage mode as soon they feel some unfair shit happened LOL

They seem to have the perception that story MUST somehow offer a “tribute” to theyr char instead being a general story where xxx char jump in and take the roles and the spotlight he/she’s supposed to get from story events

Being real usually the only two chars that get “special treatment” in anime tradition are the Hero and the Villain, all others can get cool moments or suck dicks depending on story writing

Being real most of the female chars got overall a good attention in ASF:

Chun- got her arc and solid presence from start to end
Cammy- got her dedicated alternative path. She never get to beat Vega, but he seem very strong in ASF (seem only not-Bison legit Shadaking)
Karin- got a fuckton of excessive spotlight wich made other waifuers envy
Juri- got her cool moments, kicking asses everytime she’s in
R.Mika- got her moments, even excessive ones (like tanking a punch from Rog like that)
Kolin- got her moments, even being limited by still not gameplay, she manage to be present and relevant

Only two that got not bad treatment, but are kinda ignored are Ibuki and Laura, but still they got far from the worst treatment.

Tbh the more i ear “chunners” bitch, the more i wish SF6 Chun story being about her married to Honda and locked in a kitchen with the holy duty to feed the legendary Sumo Hero.
Maybe with an QTE mini-game covering the night parts

Seriously, i love Chun and Cammy above every other SF female char (as in most cases i love classic SF) an i’ve both of them in the small list of chars i “pretend” to get in every SF game

But the pleasure of read “why we can’t have a good arc like SFV one” will be worth the sacrifice LOL*

Also it will bring a sunshine of joy in Honda’s life.
Ono pls

*i’m actually joking, it’s not like she’s sakura or shit

Not so much of a “mental canon”, we had been told in SF3 that Chun-Li was the one that destroyed Shadaloo…

Retcon.

Then we’re not to blame if they change history and the canon. Of course we expected to see something different, but they changed the story…

By taking part in Shadaloo’s final demise it can be said that Chun did “destroy Shadaloo” and that Urien’s quote in Third Strike is still right.

It’s just that it was never a wise idea to take a vague quote from a passing dialogue and interpret it in such a restrictive and literal way.

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If anything if you go rewatch the scene felt wrong that two big muscly men (Ryu/Guile) were sprinting out with free hands, while Chun was the one running throught flames and falling ceiling with the weight of the little girl.

It was heroic af on her side and embarassing writing for Ryu/Guile that even left Chun behind lol.

Ryu had to save her because she had her arms already busy holding a terrorized little girl and part of ceiling was crumbling on them.

Ryu helped her

Sim helped a defeated Ryu in very first part, or Necalli will have likely defeated again and absorbed/killed him
Ken have helped Ryu (after defeating him in sparring) telling him to stay home and git gud or he will have not reached the level needed to fight Bison

Again that was an awesome scene that spotlighted a badass, heroic and maternal Chun moment, yet peoples whine as if Ryu saved her from a kitchen on fire (her fault)

I don’t know… again, waifu crowds costantly bitch lol

Ono pls, marry her to Honda and fuck them all, that fat fucker deserve joy too

As @Daemos can be considered “retcon”, but i don’t even count it as such

Saying that Chun destroyed Shadaloo is’nt incorrect considering that she was part of the extremely small group of fighters that assaulted and destroyed Shadaloo HQ, essentially this

V

It isn’t a retcon like you said, but if he wants to be rigid so can we.

I think this video explain’s Chun-Li’s portrayal in ASF well. SFV is supposed to be the game that bridges events from SFIV to SFIII. And while her arc with Bison was handled poorly with their storytelling, her arc with Li-Fen almost (but not entirely) makes up for it, giving Chun-Li a new role in the game from being hell-bent on revenge to a motherly figure.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Chun-Li is the character that deserves to take down Bison the most. Between the final three (or four) characters that confront Bison in the final chapter of ASF, Chun-Li’s motivation for taking down Bison is the only one that is personal. Ryu is just there because he’s the World Warrior trump card. I think Guile kinda disqualifies himself when Nash comes back, so it defeats the revenge-for-killing-my-friend scenario, and Nash motivation just feels a little too selfish (i’ll kill you for killing me).

Chun-Li on the other hand had her father taken away, someone she looked up to, admired, and loved (which is why she became an interpol officer. I bet Chun-li never got the chance to say good-bye to daddy one last time, so the way she can ultimately honor his memory is to take down the man for ending his life as well as his organization. Now I don’t dispute that M. Bison is just on another level compared to Chun-Li. Maybe after Nash sucked out the excess psycho power as his sacrifice, maybe she would have a little more of a fighting chance, but we’ll never know. Even if she did get to beat FANG, who is second in command in the Shadaloo organizaiton, it just isn’t the same as taking out the main boss. (Plus, FANG had been treated almost as a joke character for most of the season both in lore and in pre-release hype).

It didn’t help that she WASN’T the one who shut down the Shadaloo base for good (damn you Rashid). So it felt that Urien’s pre-fight quote about “her legs ending that organization” was just an empty rumor. Yes, she was part of the team that took down Shadaloo. I guess shutting down the black moons, destroying the base, defeating all of the Shadaloo guards, dolls, and M. Bison would be too much for Chun-Li to handle on her own, but it’s just disappointing that for years, we’ve followed Chun-Li’s quest for revenge against Shadaloo (since SFII), and the opportunity Capcom could do something special with it, they give us a dud. I felt they did the right thing by having her get beat up by Bison early. But it was disappointing that they wouldn’t give her a rematch after getting bested by Bison twice (first in Alpha, and in ASF).

But what I think is even more disappointing is that Capcom doesn’t even give her the proper spotlight in taking down the Black Moons. This was the perfect opportunity to bring her closure to her revenge arc. But capcom was probably thinking

“Okay, the World Warriors are at the base for one final showdown, let’s have Chun-Li, Guile and…”

“Ryu!”

“Okay… so we can finally close the door of Chun-Li’s thirst for revenge and start a new role for Li-Fen, so how is she gonna defeat…”

“Ryu!”

“Yeah, but Chun-Li’s father was special to her. She should be one of the last people to beat Bison because…”

“RYU!”

“(sigh) okay, fine. But she gets to be instrumental in taking down the Shadaloo base, right? Maybe instead, in additon to saving Li-Fen, she can stop the Black Moons and…”

“Rashid!”

“FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!”

Now, Chun-Li’s story isn’t without positives. While Capcom strikes out in the Shadaloo, M. Bison, and avenge-my-father’s-death department, what they did right was with her and Li-Fen. It clearly starts a new (and exciting) chapter with her and the little girl. And after having her character chase revenge for nearly 25 years, it’s very refreshing to give Chun-Li a new role and a new purpose, while still maintaining her strong character. Saving the most adorable character’s life in the story is just as a baddass of a moment as taking down Shadaloo. And if anything, Capcom gets points for that.

And I just wanna say that some people hate that Ryu saves Chun-Li from the debris, but keep in Mind, Chun-li was carrying a little girl in her arms which slows her down. Also, the moment before, she took the time to look at M. Bison’s hat, either wondering if he was truely dead, or reflecting on how her father can now rest in peace now that the man who had murdered him was gone. But it was pretty awesome how she was carrying Li-Fen and dodging all that debris by herself until Ryu saves her. (GO TEAM)

Stupid patriarchy.

Thank you

On an unrelated note, I wonder when DiGi is going to make actual new reviews of Streeet Fighter characters. I can tell he has stored a rant on Ibuki’s redesign (which is a pretty awful redesign, still waiting for that Nostalgia costume, aka, the REAL costume), but after that I hope he comes back to analyze other Street Fighter characters rather than just revisit characters he already analyzed and then appeared in SFV story mode.

It’s not like I’m subtly hoping for a Who Dat episode on Cammy or anything.

Spoiler

I’ve never been a subtle person in general

Slightly related to the above conversations, with the bridge of SF3 coming steadily, I hope by the time we’re wrapping up the Gill arc, they don’t do the UDON comics thing and have Ryu beat Gill. I keep going back and forth on Ryu and yes, I know he’s the series’ poster boy and yes he does nothing but train, but I’m sorry, if we keep doing this defaulting the win to Ryu, it’ll be so boring.

I want SF to have different arcs and different focused protagonists like KoF, I want someone who’s not invincible protag to fight the next bad guy. I love Terry Bogard and that crushing fight he had with Krauser in the anime stuck with me, so it makes the return to victory all the more sweeter. Unless they got more super powerful endbosses with even more super mysterious powers, I don’t ever fear Ryu can be beaten. I’m fine with characters evolving and growing stronger, but c’mon let’s have some more unpredictability in things.

Things would be different if SF was solely about Ryu, but it’s an ensemble cast. Look at how the X-men films gave Wolverine the lion’s share of focus to a fault. I love Wolverine, but if you focus too much on one guy and only let him save the day when there’s other characters with different stakes and connection, it hurts the overall world. The films never gave Storm, Cyclops, or Colossus much to do, worse off in X3 when the friggin’ Phoenix saga adaptation, which is supposed to be putting Scot and Jean to the test, they toss out Cyclops and have Wolverine stepping up.

I’m all for Ryu continuing his journey and I’m really interested in seeing where things go with Oro’s training, but I’m honestly a bit worried that this will make him so OP that it’ll be an excuse for the powers that be to utilize a DBZ and Shonen anime level of escalation where all future villains have to be more powerful and world-destroying tiers.

I dunno, maybe I’m looking at this from an old bias, but I really just want more for SF and Ryu himself.

Tbh i will be ok with a sumo successor as look it nail the “SF” look

Good picks can be from Hawai as you said or Mongolia

Mongols have crazy colourful wrestling costumes of theyr own

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/e42qCHFO2Aw/hqdefault.jpg

Not necessary sumo, but will be ok with a char like the mongolian of The Quest*

Lol i will be ok with Sodom as Honda’s disciple, with an hybrid style of both chars

Fun thing actually exist a western sumo guy who fight sumo wrestlers without even have the “sumo built” he throw sumo wrestlers much bigger/heavier/stronger than him, and he’s an huge weabo too… Real life Sodom LOL

Another possibility if they bring in Final Fight villains (as Abigail seem possibly the next S2 char), i will be ok with Retu as sumo rep if they change his gameplay

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/capcomdatabase/images/2/22/FF2_Retu.png/revision/latest?cb=20140724182803

*while we’re at it, give me a The Quest like arena

Spoiler

http://i41.tinypic.com/e5qxhh.jpg

https://i2.ytimg.com/vi/6Tq1u0oAwVY/0.jpg

I’ve always said Ryu shouldn’t be the HERO of the game.

He’s the conductive thread of the series, the thing that gives them continuity, but his struggle should be limited to himself. Ryu doesn’t have a motivation, to begin with, he’s just the “eternal fighter”, while other characters have specific missions and enemies. He’s a self-centered guy that cares only about his own growth as a martial artist, in my opinion he has nothing to do with the “world-saving” type of missions.

Let’s see:
[list]
[] Ryu was the definite protagonist of Street Fighter Ⅰ
[
] Street Fighter Alpha was the sequel and he was given focus as a side-plot with Akuma and the Dark Hadou, but Akuma’s still a representation of Ryu’s inner struggle. The actual story was the battle against Bison, when Shadaloo was at its prime and they had amassed the biggest army ever. The protagonist of this series was Nash, it ended with his sacrifice and I think it was good this way.
[] Street Fighter Ⅱ was Bison again, Ryu should have had his rematch with Sagat and that’s all. The focus was given to **Chun-Li **getting her revenge as well as **Guile **as her right hand, getting his revenge too.
[
] Street Fighter Ⅲ clearly had moved on from Bison. It was supposed to make clear Chun-Li had been the protagonist of Street Fighter Ⅱ, that’s why her legendary battle against Bison was referred. The new protagonist was supposed to be Alex and Gill was going to be the villain, while we still saw Ryu continue with his training, so that should have been all.
[/list]

Now, it’s clear Ⅳ and Ⅴ were steps backwards from the story and it was already a problem. The problem’s that they shun off the natural progression and “moving on” thing from the series, and cramming all the protagonists (including Abel having a lot of the focus in Street Fighter Ⅳ) and then switching the canon to take away some character’s protagonisms, doing a disservice to some of them (Chun-Li and Nash were treated like crap) and leaving hanging threads that will probably contradict the “future of the series” (Alex is in the limbo right now).

I liked how the storyline from the original series was constantly moving forward with new storylines, but these new games have been mostly a mess when it comes to the plot.