OK so I think I just found something interesting that will help all you guys complaining about wakeup. As you already know launcher has lower body invulnerability meaning any crouching attacks will be destroyed for a heavy combo (Launcher by itself does 100 damage). Main problem is that it is slow (13 frames) and heavily punishable on block, but its still there and requires no meter. Also I hope you all already know but cross counter for Ibuki is extremely very powerful. Its 7 frames guaranteeing its ability to punish and it does 150 damage.
But if you don’t want to rely on cross counter, and they aren’t throwing low attacks, then what do you do? Ibuki has a move that we have been using all along that has i frames and requires zero meter. Agemen. Agemen has 1-11 frames of upper body invulnerability and is safe on block (-2) and on hit (+2). Additionally you can cancel the first hit into mk tsumiji to make it even safer (-1 on block) or get an easy combo. Or if you want to be safe, you can cancel into raida backdash.
Main problem I have is that I find it hard to cancel into tsumiji on pad, but maybe others don’t have that problem.
Tsumuji cancel isn’t easy period considering you’re going from to :d::db:, you end up with hein all the time. Interesting use of agemen to be sure though, I’ll have to work that into my game.
It is actually possible to do tsumiji as I have been able to do it about 50- 75% of the time. I tap B+ MP very quickly and let the joypad go to neutral and then do the tsumiji motion to do it. Additionally you could do agemen into HK tsumiji into switch to make it safe on block or to do massive damage on hit with your oncoming partner.
What makes agemen even more powerful is that when dealing with opponents’ mixups where the opponent is standing but forcing you to block high, leaving you at disadvantage, you can use agemen because of its ease in input unlike shoryuken or other shoryuken like moves. When its a low attack that you have confirmed you can just counter with launcher.
I’m currently running Ibuki & Heihachi. I think I’m going to leave Ibuki on point. Alsoit’s funny that you play Vega/ Ibuki. I saw a player on the option selects stream using that same team and he was godlike.
ive figured out how im going to play ibuki… i still think she isnt GREAT… ie alex getting away with way to much crap against ryan who looked like hes only played the game for an hour…BUT, she is looking better than i first thought and i am having good results with her… but i think its mostly people not knowing the matchup. ie i get away with waay to much shit. ibuki was made to be ac’d which is why i like her at point as battery… if she gets in early against many characters they literally have no way to get her off of them save for backdash… i think shes a whore of a character now, but its this entire game to be real.
anywho the stuff im using:
her cr.lk is MUCH better now… to the point where i feel that she shouldnt be using cr.lp over it. cr.lk does almost everything that cr.lp does only better. the only prob is that it doesnt chain. its damage got buffed to where its the same as cr.lp and its now a 2 frame link into itself instead of a 1 frame… those are HUGE buffs as its hard to miss the 2 framer if you are plinking it with cr.lk~cr.lp. so anywho i use cr.lkx2, st.lp xx whatever. cr.lk is WAAAAAY better than cr.lp in this game.
but the real reason to use cr.lk over cr.lp is because ibuki is poked out way less after cr.lk than after cr.lp… which allows her to do things like lk cd> cr.lk SLIGHT walk forward> throw. and mix that throw up with close hk for a frame trap and ibukis game goes from being annoying to monstrous. also… some other things ive been throwing into my game: DONT USE F+mk. fuck that move… -4 on block is bad.
tc4 setups: ibuki can tc4 after cr.lk (easy mode link as well, gives the opponent a reason to block low)
she can tc4 after a blocked bonsho kick.
and im pretty sure that she can tc4 after tc4 xx hk tsumuji… but dont quote me on that im writing this from memory.
anywho, yeah.
also i liked alex’s hien into tag cancel… im stealing it.
I only used the stuff that I have practiced most with Ibuki during those matches. I still have quite a few things that I am experimenting with and my execution with her needs alot of work. I am new to this game after all.
For example st lp TC st mp is 0 on block but leaves you closer on block than two st lp and it allows you to hitconfirm into spin kick x ex tsumiji which may not seem worth the meter, but when used in the corner it does 344 dmg. Additionally you should be able to do st lp chain st mp as a hit confirm into launcher, without being punished although my guess is you are at -2 on block. But if you use both they may get confused and try to attack you when you are at zero in which case you can punish with st lp.
My block strings aren’t good yet because I am not hit confirming into powerful combos like I do with Vega. I am working on it though. Right now I am thinking that I can use the st lp, st mp, spin kick and st hp backhand combos (if done right can easily do 350-400 damage with one bar) from more middle to farther range when applying pressure. This way I can keep everything tighter while hit confirming into good damage.
As for the f + mk. Its so messed up, cause the move is soo good except for the fact that it is -4 on block. When you are in the air you dodge all crouching normals unlike bansho kick and f + mk goes in the air starting on frame 3.
^^^yeah the F+MK is practically useless now. it EASILY makes it so that the opponent can counter with cr.lp if they block it.
which leads me to another thing which i think will be very beneficial to ibuki:
what do people love to mesh when they see her command dash? crouching moves… which are blown up by raw launcher… put 2 and 2 together and i think you know what ive been doing to people. however t make it “safer” i always tag cancel it for a meter in case i guessed wrong on there mash. tag cancel puts you at about -6 or so on block… so its something that you really want to get a read on the opponent for… bt you’d be freaking amazed how many people i catch slippin with her F+mk on block into launcher and her command dash into launcher… you’d think it was unblockable.
so anyways its just a nice little trick i wanted to share.
To add on to that. Did you know that cr mk ducks under alot of standing normals? I bet you can do cr mk xx cl st hp switch to make it safe on block and very damaging combo on hit. I already tested and if both hits connect it is comboable and safe. I haven’t tested if cr mk into cl st hp works though, although I imagine at certain ranges that it should.
Additionally agemen has upper body invincibility, which means that certain standing moves just go right through it. For example Lili’s powerful overhead goes right through ibuki, but ibuki’s cl lp doesn’t. You could do agemen and cancel first hit into mk tsumiji for a combo or to make agemen a little safer.
These are things that I haven’t even started to implement yet.
alex, yeah i know about the applications of ibukis cr.mk… remember that im one of the only ibukis that preaches the merits of that move in sf4. here in this game however it is a pale version of its former self. but i get what you were talking about and it seemed interesting. so i checked it out. the bad news is that the cr.mk xx close hp tag switch only hits twice (tested against crouching kaz) HOWEVER, cr.lk xx close hp hits 3 times and is comboable off of and does indeed seem to be perfectly safe on block. so were i you, i’d use that.
so ok more tricks and gimmicks and bnb’s:
as i said i now love ibukis cr.lk. its a winner and kills cr.lp dead. so i was looking for a good bnb into crossrush and heres an easy one:
cr.lkx2, far st.lp xx st.mp xx st.fp (does 176 damage before the tag) depending on who your partner is this leads into bnbs that do 350-400 for no meter. the awesome part is that this starts off of 3 weak attacks and using one meter only you can then switch BACK INTO ibuki, for a one meter combo that does 400 damage off of 3 weak attacks. thats VERY good for our little girl.700- 800 damage from 2 cr.lk openings is nothing to scoff at.
now remember this is while ALSO SIMULTANEOUSLY having a legitimate throw threat and an overhead threat since the entire sequence starts off of a cr.lk
and as faras gimmicks heres a “new” one:
slightly unsafe slide (everyone wants to jab these things dont they??)
raw launcher tag cancel. if they pressed a button thinking you were at a punishable disadvantage they get taken for a ride.
her cr.fp now has a MUCH MUCH bigger hitbox underneath it. it phantom hits crouching characters. ibukis cr.fp now has so much hitbox range on it that she can do cr.lkx2, far st.lp, cr.fp as a pokestring…
A BETTER WAY TO PUT IT?
it has MORE RANGE than her st.mk… i shit you not. just tested it in training mode.
anyways this means that ibuki is really quadruple threat at upclose range. she can cr.lk then throw or the occasional overhead, or she can cr.lkx2, st.lp xx lk command dash. or she can cr.lkx2, st.lp, cr.fp jump cancel into a crossup. all from a cr.lk. and of course she can mix it up by only doing one or 2 shorts into those things.
so basically once shes in she can lock you down forever while having her choice of a ground crossup, an air crossup, an overhead, a throw, a frame trap or a reoffense with frame neutrality (f+hk).
basically once ibukis in she can do whatever the hell she wants and gets to dictate the range she does it at… idk but i find that on paper extremely powerful.
now i can see why she has no invincible moves… that would be horrendous, jeez.
I think you missed my point in using cr mk. Cr lk CANNOT do what cr mk does. cr mk ducks UNDER all standing attacks that I have tested, basically having invulnerability against ALL standing attacks that are not overheads. It even ducks under certain fireballs like Ryu’s fireball. Cr lk ducks under nothing making it not ideal at all to use as a reversal. Also cr mk chained into cl hp will hit all 3 hits within st lk range on a standing opponent which is when it should be used in the first place. If you use cr mk to counter standing attacks as I am saying it could do, then they are using a standing attack in which case you should be hitting them while they are standing, and not when they are ducking.
Furthermore if they do block low then it still hits with all 3 guaranteeing you the safe switch. It should be very rare the case that an opponent who is ducking and who is that close of range gets hit by cr mk that is being used as a reversal since it is so slow. If they are crouching and not blocking at that range, then they are probably hitting you with a faster crouching attack. Even if you do manage to hit a crouching opponent with cr mk chained into one hit cl hp you can still on reaction do the launcher rather than switching. If you really can’t react you could just cancel cr mk xx cl hp x into ex tsumiji which is safe on block (+4) and does great damage on hit (289).
Also who in the world are you partnering with where you can get 350-400 damage with no meter starting from a 70% damage reduction on attacks off of a launcher and only 176 damage? I agree with you that cr lk is way better and is useful but that combo is really bad due to some major damage scaling.
i was wrong about the damage, the most i can get at this time from that exact starter with no meter is 300… or actually high 200’s to be exact. thought i would be able to get more, but no.
i still like the combo though and am getting more success via using it. BUT im also mixing up what combos i do. for instance ive been using st.mp, st.mk xx hk kaze tag into good damage. im basically exerimenting like fuck with her and trying out as much shit as possible.
GOOD STUFF to soul synapse for taking 5th at box arena. i only saw your game versus axeman… it was a shame… jin/kaz seems to be team scrub. (nothing against axedude… just saying) they do a shitload of damage off of hitconfirms that are to me way to easy to be producing the damage that they do (my friend also plays this exact team) but thats just meh, we just have to step up our game. im down, i just need to find a good second for ibuki. right now im leaning towards raven. i KNOW rufus would be a good second… but i hate the character and using him would decrease the fun factor for me exponentially.
xiaoyu seemd like a decent fit. but i dont really want to use her either… sigh. looking at julia. but at this point i am completely in a fog as to whom i should use to back her up. if anyone has any suggestions could you bulletpoint the reasons for that character so that i know what im getting myself into.
-edit what gem setups are you guys using for her? to me especially after looking at soul synapses games and mine, she really seems to need hp. i mean shes a character that has no reversals so her hp can get exposed really easily.
but then again alotof the gem setups for hp are only active AFTER getting hit by a certain number of moves so they dont really significntly do much for her while shes actively being combo’d unless she immediately gets hit by another combo or reset. so maybe the higher up speed gems or power gems would be better. personally i dont really see what the speed gems could give her that would make her more powerful. ie what movement option/special move wold be made more powerful? the most obvious one is that F+MK and hien would get faster meaning that they would be harder to block. BUT… is that good enough? both moves kinda suck and are only situational. her tsumujis are already good enough and speeding them up i dont really think would make them much better. power and health seems to be what she could make the most of…
to :d::db: