Assuming Guy’s bushin flip elbow and his normal jump elbow hit are blocked at the same time, do they have different recovery frames on landing?
Command elbow has 4 frames of recovery after landing, Bushin Flip Elbow has 8
Just saw that in the frame data after checking again after your post. I saw bushin flip had no recovery listed and so thought it was dependent on something else, but didn’t see bushin flip elbow listed further down. Thanks.
So when does an opponent recover after blocking either the command elbow or the bushin flip elbow? Is the opponent ever at a frame advantage after either move? It’s probably dependent on when they block it like most jumpins, but I am looking for openings or gaps to be aware of.
Depends if they’re standing or crouching. I think if they block standing, it feels like Guy is negative, especially from the flip elbow. Definitely the case on tall characters like Sagat.
Crouching feels positive.
Bushin flip elbow
On hit (standing opponent, normal height): +3
On hit (standing opponent, tall height): +1
On hit (crouching opponent, any): +4
On block (standing opponent, normal height): 0
On block (standing opponent, tall height): -2
On block (crouching opponent, any): +1
Values obviously differ on hit if you get a counter hit. So let’s say for example you flip over a Sagat high tiger shot and score a counter hit elbow drop, you will be at +4 instead of +1 I believe, giving you time to link into a combo. So on block, you should really never try going straight into a block string. On hit, unless it’s a counter hit don’t bother trying to combo against Sagat, Seth, Abel, Zangief and T.Hawk or you will likely eat a DP or command grab. Delayed cr. tech OS or just back dash out of there is probably best option in this situation. But in general you shouldn’t be flipping across the screen at your opponent anyway, it’s a very unsafe way of getting in.
Its also varies on where you hit them as well, you could get a deep hit, I know in some cases I’ve managed to make it +5
How does Guy keep up pressure against an opponent who knows that runstop is minus frames on on guard for all variations and therefore react with a fast normal?
Im slowly breaking away from the habit of far mp xx RStop but its sad to admit that the move itself is nearly useless against good opponents. TC is relatively safe but then opponents start to look for that.
Practice using TCxxRun~Stop to whiff punish normals. Kiryu exclusively does this with cr.LK into EX Hozanto buffer. Worst case scenario leaves you back in neutral/footsie dominant range.
I feel that you should never use st.MPxxRun~Stop until you condition you opponent to expect TCXXRun~Stop. It’s one of the only ways to catch the opponent off guard into blocking for a longer period of time, allowing you to set up more offense.
Adding from what Kreymore said, you can also use EX Run stop. This not only gives you one hit of armor, but there is a subtle difference between normals stop and ex stop. EX actually stops Guy at a shorter distance when done immediately (especially with TC). This will aid in the whiff punishing and will always create a neutral ground against most of the cast.
EX run sounds good, I’d best try to bait out those unsafe moves with it, but I’m terribly conservative with meter. That’ll have to change.
When I heard Daigo say there’s still unexplored territories in the Ryu vs Akuma matchup, it reminded me of Guy’s EX Run Stop. I don’t believe we use it enough, but there are probably many ways to apply this in offense rather than just defense. I’m thinking of applying this in the neutral situations where both the opponent and I are moving in and out, throwing poke xx buffers hoping to get the first KD/setup going.
Haven’t been able to find an answer to this, so I’ll post here.
What is Guy setting up when he does his double jump i.e. after some form of knockdown he jumps then jumps again.
Is this some sort of safe jump or does it set up an ambiguous cross up/non-cross up or unblockable?
Double Jump Forward from a Forward Throw (midscreen):
Its not a safe jump by any means, what it generally will cause if your DP to not autocorrect on reversal but a delay DP will always work. Some characters I believe can forward dash out, you can’t backdash, and low profile moves completely defeat the purpose of the cross up. But what Guy player can do is us Elbow to fake the cross up, some characters actually can’t be crossup’d due to their wake up hurtbox, it’ll either whiff or Guy will land in front.
Corner “Unblockable J.HK” from Forward Throw:
Is actually not an unblockable on most of the characters it is capable to be done on. The HK hits in front of the opponent but Guy lands behind them, Most characters will either block it or walk away from the corner if you block regularly, Some can forward dash out as well, a DP is generally useless as well to my testing.
Hope this helps just test the setups and see what works and if Guy can OS your options, the corner setup is hard to time for the record.
Bit of a late reply from me on this one, but I kinda discovered this by accident last night. During the neutral game as you described, characters with high priority jump in normals will often try to use these to get in on you. For example you often see Zangief players go for jump in HP or MK as they have different timings to anti-air them. If from that same range, they mix it up with jump in knee drop, your anti-air will whiff leaving you open to a free SPD or worse. So instead of gambling on what anti-air move to use, when to time it, if you shouldn’t anti-air in anticipation of a knee drop setup. You can react to the jump with EX run stop. So regardless of what button Gief presses, you will armour absorb his attack and be in perfect position to full combo punish as he lands.
I’m only using Gief as a basic example of this. It can be used against a lot of the cast and could be particularly useful against divekick characters. You’ll just need to be careful of characters with aerial special moves that break armor. I only just started playing around with this last night so I haven’t had anywhere near enough of a chance to experiment with how this can be utilised. I generally like to build and save my meter as well, so using bars in this way feels a little alien to me. But if it leads to a full combo punish, it is definitely worth the meter.
Sorry double post
According to the Beehol video of Guy’s ‘unblockables’, the double jump forward MK after a mid screen forward throw is a true unblockable on Viper and El Fuerte. This doesn’t mean the attack is unavoidable, for example Viper could do EX seizmo feint and El Fuerte could do EX run. But it does mean that if they try to block it in either direction, they will definitely get hit. This is different from the corner jump HK setup which is a fake crossup (hard-to-blockable) on most of the cast. It is a true unblockable on some of the cast (Abel springs to mind), but again there are escapes other than blocking that will get out of it.
It’s not a true unblockable its a hard-to-blockable, Viper’s way out of it is DP or any feint with invincibility, Fuerte has to spend bar or hold it, but yeah that corner one, almost every character has a way out of it. You have to really benefit from your timing and that your opponent doesn’t know about it.
Anyone have a technique/shortcut or advice for doing guy’s shoulder~fadc~ultra 1.I being using arcade stick more and more for tournaments but I can’t get used to doing this on the P1 side(player1) mainly the fadc to QCFx2 part.
I had the same trouble for a long while. Wiggling the stick seems to do the trick, and since the buffer timing of moves is quite generous, you can input the focus forward qcf x2 during Guys hozanto animation then press the three kicks when you see the dash animation.
Rest is down to practice!
you mean during the hozanto as in the end just before the fadc cancel?
Yeah. I find that pressing the inputs fast results in ex run or slide, so do the inputs smoothly, but start them early (buffer).