Gief’s lariats always have the same frame pattern though, right? In which case it is all a matter of timing, when exactly you do the lariat relative to the ball/headbut/psycho crusher. It’s probably a pretty short window though.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think many people know this: the hit box for Zangief’s punch lariat actually grows wider as Zangief spins. (He rotates 4 times, and each rotation has a slightly wider hit box.)
This is easily noticeable if you have the opponent stand still as you do a stationary punch lariat from max range. The first three rotations will whiff, and then the fourth one hits. If you take just a small step closer, the first two rotations will whiff, and the third one will hit. Take a small step closer and only the first rotation will whiff. Take a small step closer and it will hit right away.
The Banishing Flat (green hand thingy) is a great move IMO, because it gets you so far forwards. Using it to counter fireballs, you just have to anticipate, rather than hitting it on reaction like the Spinning Clothesline. It’s good for getting you just within jab SPD range though, with or without a fireball. You can grab them into Zangief’s super off it too, if you do the motion fast enough.
It also goes into combos well, like jumping Fierce Splash, crouching jab x2, Banishing Flat. Or cross-up Splash, cr jab x3, or even cross up splash cr jab x2, st jab x2 on big characters I think.
Green hand is almost a good move, but not quite. Its startup means that you can’t use it on reaction, or even when a fireball is anywhere near you. Its recovery means that you’d better actually hit a fireball with it because if you whiff, you can get hit by another fireball or swept or any number of other things, and if you hit the opponent non-meaty and he blocks, he gets frame advantage. It also kinda sucks in combos because it doesn’t knock down. In general with Gief, when you do a combo and don’t want to end it with a tick into command grab, you want it to knock the opponent down so that you can get better positioning. Ending a combo with green hand means that you’re left at a distance with the opponent standing, aka you’re back at square one. It’s fine to put in a combo when it’ll kill the opponent, but in general your combos should end with either crouching roundhouse or kick lariat (kick lariat because it hits lower and you recover faster so you have time to get into a better position).
You should use green hand immediately after every command grab you get in order to move you closer, but apart from that, it should be pretty rarely used. It beats things like Blanka balls from max distance on Blanka’s wakeup and it’s a good way to punish things like whiffed flash kicks, but as far as using it to get around fireballs, do it occasionally, just not very often.
Are you sure the recovery is such a problem, because I use it all the time like a tick? Maybe it’s the range, because I always try to get just the edge of the hand to make the opponent block, but still be in range of a jab SPD to grab a punch or kick as it starts to extend. The SPD timed to come out at the end of the animation seems to suck any normal moves in before they start hitting, and even go through fireballs? What I see stopping it is reversals and counter throws.
Yep, it can be used as a tick from max distance. When I said, “If you hit the opponent non-meaty and he blocks, he gets frame advantage,” I should have said, “If you the hit the opponent non-meaty and from closer than max-range, he gets frame advantage.” This is useful super-rarely, like if you use the green hand as a max-range meaty to tick into spd against Blanka or to stuff a fireball such that your hand actually touches the opponent’s hands. If you can help it, though, you don’t want green hand to touch the opponent when you stuff a fireball because that means that you’re giving him a chance to escape. If your green hand stuffs the fireball and you just miss hitting him, that’s perfect because you get a free command grab that can’t be escaped; if the green hand hits the opponent, it will be a tick, and any tick can be escaped from with a reversal-timed throw-invincible move.
Oh OK, thankyou, that’s very well explained.
…and after every far sweep. :wgrin:
Is meaty green hand safe? I use it as a tick sometimes with decent results… whiff green hand after SPD to get close, then meaty green hand tick into SPD is a ghetto trick i use sometimes.
…and like you said, after blocked flash kicks/DPs/etc for knockdown. Good after Guile super too. Also buff way to score a knockdown if someone does jump-back attack against your wake-up SPD. Not guaranteed or anything, but real sweet when it works.
Random stuff that i don’t think has been mentioned yet… someone correct me if I’m wrong.
The SPD will naturally drift to the left. If you finish with :uf: :r: or :df: you can make it drift to the right instead. Real useful if they’re cornered.
MP throw sets up a sweet crossup that people have a hard time blocking (for me anyhow).
Crossup, d.mk, lariat is good dizzy combo… Goddard special?
MK poke is good move. Snuff FBs and stuff.
Safe jump knees and splash are your friends. Best friends.
Any crouching punch will hit hurricane kicks for free.
Hitting a dhalsim limb with psychic up+hp stomach crunch for the dizzy is fucking hilarious. :lol:
How do you counter an opponents normal attacks with spd? I try to grab the extended hitbox of the normal before it fully animates. I’m in the dark when it comes to active hitboxes/vulnerable hitbox. anyone feel like schooling an og scrub?
No matter what, you can’t grab limbs in the game. You still need to grab them. So you have two choices: either grab them before their move comes out (which happens a lot on tick attempts), or let the normal move whiff and follow it in and SPD before they recover. But you’ll never be able to actually grab a limb. They don’t really ever “extend” their range to be grabbed.
thanks:china:
I’m getting beasted easily in this matchup.
My friend doesn’t even really play sim and it’s pretty easy to see this fight sucks.
The only attack that i’ve hit sim with is s.forward in the situation that you’re describing. I wonder what else i can counter hit him with:xeye:
After that beatdown i looked up gian dhalsim vs gunze 'Gief
Gunze basically went crazy with jump in trade fk. Every hit traded in giefs favor but i have to question if thats a consistent trade.
Anyone have exp in this matchup?
This fight is not pretty.
But mostly, from a screen away, you have to begin your slow advance. Get lucky with hitting punches with Crouch Roundhouse (sometimes trading, but you gain a tiny bit of gorund on that trade) and hitting standing kicks with Low Fierce.
The key here is finding a chance to get close enough to jump and start getting Dhalsim to panic. Jump with an attack and immdiately landing with 360 + Kick, for example (if Dhalsim takes the hit you grab him, if he blocks, you land with the running grab and may catch him off guard). The problem is that good Dhalsims know every anti-air needed for every distance that makes Zangeif almost helpless (see Gian).
Zangief CAN beat good Dhalsim players, no question. Anyone who has seen the great Gief players in Japan have seen some miraculous wins (like Pony and Gunze) against Dhalsims. But if you pit the best Dhalsim vs. the best Zangief, I don’t think Zangief has much of a chance at all.
It’s a pretty bad matchup, definitely.
You have to know which moves beat or trade with Dhalsim’s moves. Crouching roundhouse, crouching strong, crouching jab, standing jab, standing strong, standing forward, standing roundhouse, jumping roundhouse, jumping down+forward,jumping forward, and lariat are all important and all beat different things. Use those moves to convince Dhalsim to stop poking you out and make him let you bulldog your way in.
Running bear grab is definitely useful here. There’s a range where it’s hard for the Dhalsim player to know whether to use his regular or back+x normals, and you can make that quite annoying for him.
Make sure when you’re ticking into spd that you tick yourself out of Dhalsim’s normal throw range, which is longer than most.
very useful posts. I’m picking gief just to do what he does best and work for the win. the more i know always the better. much appreciated.:pleased: