634

Are there better partners for lili other than cody and hwo? I need someone with frame traps and damage

635

You could always try Nina. She has both frame traps (though not to the level of Cody) and she has hellacious meterless damage.

636

Law or Ken would be a great partner but tbh i would go with law.

637

I have a question about Lili’s ex angel knee/the dp. Is that viable as a reversal?

also

What is “angel knee asention” as mentioned in the patch notes of 2013? The one that said it will hit crouchers…?

638

I think her EX knee is a viable reversal. Others prefer to use her EX Rabbit Thorn, or EX Counter.

Angel Knee Ascension is the follow up to her EX Angel Knee. It’s useless now though. At the moment, it only hits your opponent in the air, and you can’t do anything after it.

639

Ex knee isn’t great to me as a reversal as it whiffs on crouchers and quite a few characters are going to pressure with cr.lp/cr.lk etc on wakeup anyway, but if you read a standing normal, then go for it I guess. It’s a brilliant AA for crossups though as it auto corrects well and may potentially be a great AA in general in 2013 with the acension followup buff

I prefer ex feisty rabbit, it’s “safer” to throw out and if they block it, they eat a 50/50 mixup.

Ascension is the followup to ex knee, in 2013 you can JC it so this creates more combo potential.

640

Thanks. That all helped greatly.

641

EX Knee will also be a great reversal post-patch as it actually WILL hit crouchers.

642

There’s actually a lot of misunderstanding with this, it’s the FOLLOWUP that hits crouchers, ex knee itself won’t.

643

Will Adante be a good anti air in 2013? i mean i use it all the time…

644

checks list again

Fuck, you’re right. Oh well…

645

If you sense a jump yeah. It’s 8 frames now but lots it’s air crush property so you can actually trade with it now.
I would say the best anti airs to use come patch are…
Cr.hp 7 frames start up and 7 frames active, if you trade it’s 90 damage for you.
st.mk is another anti air that has retained it’s air crush properties buuuut it’s much slower than the new andante and cr.hp. Use this move if you sense a jump coming from a mile away.
lp. counter will stop any jump attempt that isn’t a cross up. Very very strong anti air that isn’t very use much by lili’s now cause of andante. The idea is that you get 80 meter now if you land a counter so that’s pretty much incentive to use it and not to mention out of the three listed anti airs above lp counter gives you a nice juicy hard knockdown.
Ex angel knee. If someone jumps at you and you have knee let it rock. 110 damage for both knee and ascension and you can follow up with it, too good to pass up.

Lili won’t suffer because of the anti air nerf, if anything it’s having us look for other more damaging anti air options.

646

I’m guessing Adante will be like nina’s current cr.hp. If that is the case than thats actually ok. I have been using lp counter i just need to time it better.

647

walk back buffer with lp+lk, it’s an os as well. Covers jumps ins and empty jumps. Grab will obviously come out first if you press the buttons together but if you buffer halfway the theory is the Os will cover both options. Requires some lab practice but if you master it you can use it to cover both reads. Sometimes though mp counter works if the jump in is deep but lp counter specifically fucks up front jump ins.

648

I usually use her lp counter now along with Adante. Lp counter is really good because i can start fiesty rabbit cross ups and mix it up.

649

Something that popped into my head which I forgot to mention about v.2013 Lili whilst I was studying French today. Coincidence?

I think this could be well known already but st.:mp: or cr.:mp: on counter hit links into :f:+:lk: (1st hit of Dominating Heel.)

And I’ve been struggling with doing auto-correct EX Knee as an anti air. Any tips you guys can give me to help me get it consistently?

That said though. Currently loving the ability to land Pandora Misogi mid-screen. Give it some time but there could be a Pandora Misogi finish soon (albeit at a somewhat downgraded level because its so easy to combo into now) by doing EX Knee > Jump Cancel > Pandora :).

650

I posted this in the 2013 thread, but thought I should probably just post it here instead. copy & paste comin in hottttt.

So i’m thinking about playing Kazuya/Lili… I’m not really sure what type of character lili is but apparently she’s a high/low machine, right? I previously played Sagat/Kazuya, but I’m probably going to switch Kaz to point and have lili behind. Like i said i don’t know much about her yet but how is her neutral game? I feel like her normals are a little eeh. Pretty good c.mk, but not really rewarding aside from chaining, and with chained attacks being nerfed on block I’m not too sure how that changed her.

What is the importance of dominating heel? How do you apply that into your game? 1st hit seems so negative on block… I don’t understand :\

Overall I’m having a hard time understanding how to play this character. I feel unsafe, and unable to continue pressure after certain things, and feel hopeless in the neutral game. Uggh ;__;

edit: Okay so I’m guessing dominating heel is used just to force-stand when out of range of a c.hp combo? (for example j.mk c.lk, c.lp, dominating heel xx knee?) What is the optimal combo btw? Is it knee, knee, c.hp xx lk sunflower?

651

As a Dhalsim x Jack player, I would really love some tips on how to fight Lili. How should Dhalsim deal with the drill pressure, how punishable is the non ex overhead special with and without the follow up, what beats the ex overhead special you use for reversal and leads in to a mixup, and is nearly impossible to block if you tag cancel it + impossible to alpha counter in the beginning of the move?

Is the ex leap through the air 100% full screen? Any tips at all would be appreaciated, as I feel like my characters can’t figth Lili at all (Dhalsim has a fighting chance if Lili does not have meter, but after that it feels like a very bad matchup)

Also, I am thinking about learning Lili because I think she is way too strong in v2013, and if you can’t beat them, join them, right? Is Jin a good point character with Lili as anchor?

652

Ok so my answer could kind of suck just because I ain’t really a Dhalsim or a Jack-X player. In fact my experience with fighting both of these two is next to zilch.

That said, I can answer the other parts to some extent.

I’m assuming by non ex overhead special with and with-out the follow-up you are talking about her ‘spin’ type move: Feisty Rabbit: ( :qcb: + :k: ). The key thing to note about the move is that if she spins in your face you’ll want to hit her during her recovery period which is about the time when she lands again on the ground. You should be able to counter hit her out of her overhead follow-up if she tries it. I should know because the amount of people who mashed out jabs from that spin against me was insane pre-patch. The move hasn’t changed a bit with v.2013.

By EX Overhead Special I’m assuming you mean EX Sunflower Lance ( :qcf: + :2k: ). I believe that the move is only projectile invincible so you can hit her out of it on start-up. There’s also a gap in between the two hits allowing you to stick an invincible reversal in between the hits as well.

The ‘EX Leap’ your talking about I’m assuming means EX Divine Step. Think Akuma EX Demon Flip. This move tracks from where-ever you are when she starts the move and its also an overhead. It isn’t invincible by any means but its pretty fast. Generally Lili players tend to ‘Tiger Knee’ the move to get past fireballs much more efficiently.

Learning Lili can be a little tricky but that’s like every time someone learns a new character in any fighting game, she takes some time to get used to. Thinks back to all of those losses in the past :oops:.

The Jin/Lili team is quite strong. What made the team stronger in the past was the Jin re-stand off of L.L.R.K ( :f: , :d: , n , :df: + :k: .) but don’t get me wrong, they have good set-ups (Jin: Median Line Destruction ( :f:, :b:, :f:, + :p: ) and Lili’s ( :hp: Den ( :qcf: + :hp: ), good ways to counter zoners and can do some good damage both as a team and solo.

Although you may find that somewhat poor wake-up options could be a problem. They don’t have 3 frame, invincible, shoto DPs of the sort. They are both somewhat susceptible to heavy pressure tactics.

Hope this helps somewhat…

Now if only I could find get some Jack-X or Dhalsim experience. Sucks to be limited by different consoles at times :(.

653

Okay. I’m REALLY enjoying Kaz/Lili now. Kaz doesn’t user meter thanks to ewgf, so he is able to build all that meter for Lili. Neutral game is still a little weird with her, but it’s getting better. I absolutely love andante, and f+mk. My only problem is that I need to train myself to replace c.mp with s.lp in combos. I’m dropping C.mp-> f+lk(1frame) too consistently. F+mk -> mp, s.lp, f+lk (2frame) is too consistent. I can get ewgf out 98% of the time, but drop C.mp -> dominating heel 50% of the time. Very upsetting ;_;

My only gripe is with her supers/cross art. So what is up with Lili and her ability to combo into super/cross art? Is this combo character specific or something? (anything into Knee, knee, c.hp super/cross art.) Sometimes it fully connects, sometimes it doesn’t. For example with the super, for it to fully connect I believe 2 of the attacks hit, 3rd whiffs and then the 4th hits for the full animation. When it doesn’t fully connect, that 3rd attack actually hits, and then 4th attack whiffs. (Hopefully I’m making sense, with all these hits/attacks/whiffs) I wasn’t sure if I was just timing my c.hp incorrectly or if it is a character specific thing.

I do feel myself relying too much on F+mk in footsies though, and am getting blown up by neutral jumps. Like I stated before, I hate that her c.mk isn’t rewarding. I know there’s c.mp xx s.hp, but that s.hp range is just so weak.