The curse of the grappler

I don’t really consider 3D grapplers as “grapplers” in the traditional sense…

Usually command throws in 3D games like Tekken and SC have the same properties as normal throws. It’s not like the difference between Zangief’s regular piledriver and SPD. For example, King’s Muscle Buster basically has the same range and priority as any other two button throw (it’s the same frickin’ animation). I think King’s grappler status merely comes from the fact that he just has more throws than others.

You could totally play as King and win without using a single grab. Thanks to the general mechanics of Tekken (damaging normals, 50% juggles, wall traps, high/low crushes) his striking attacks and mix-ups are more than enough for victory. 70+ dmg giant swing into a wall is just a nice bonus.

Same is true for Astaroth. He can kill you without using throws at all…which kinda violates the code of the grappler.

Now, Wolf from VF is a different story. I’m no VF expert, but I think his Giant Swing and throw mix-ups are more central to his play style than King’s…but I defer to the VF masters…

Dashing and chain combos and guard-canceling moves (alpha counters etc) and guard breaking have become more common, and so the old archetype of the grappler is hurt a great deal. There are exceptions of course, like Gief in A2 and A3- but he’s allowed instant throws with good range among other things, and those two alone have fallen by the wayside for a lot of would-be grapplers.

as for smash, DK is only a grappler in certain matchups. i’d go as far as to say that smash has no real grapplers. sure bowser has a command throw, and it’s pretty good, but not good enough to make that a priority. DK has grab to death combos against fast fallers, but that’s mostly it. shiek on the other hand, can run the game on grabs against just about everyone below high tier. yes, grabs can be used to dominate a match with several characters, but not in a way that i’d say they’re grapplers. partly because in smash, the grab tends to be the setup for bigger damage, not the hit acting as a setup for the big damage in the grab.

potemkin definitely is. gosh, he has pot buster, air pot buster, heavenly pot buster, heat extend anti air throw. the last is important i think because potemkin players have the uncanny ability to stuff your throw setup escapes via jump with it.
tick throw setups, mixups, whiff-throw capable, etc…

eddie’s kind of hard to say. while his command throw is good and has many setups, i think it’s a smaller part of the big picture and not enough to put him up as a grappler.

Astaroth was top tier in SC1 partially because you couldn’t guard impact his throws.

Another common trait among “grapplers” in 3d is that they have lower break windows for their grabs (in sc2 tech windows were usually 13 frames, Astaroth’s were 8 and Ivy’s were 5).

That doesn’t change the fact that grapplers in 3D don’t play like grappler’s though.

if you want to play with good grapplers, stay away from capcom titles, and head for an SNK title thats all i have to say, capcom sucks at making grapple chars