This is true, but hell attack retains its usefuleness because you don’t need a counter hit to get that juggle state so you can hit them preemptively. The other thing is that the hitbox is much better than it used to be, you can actually hit people out of the air easily on reaction whereas in SF4 you had to do it preemptively because if they were doing any air attack, you would be hit.
Yeah hell attack is fun [media=youtube]Vp-o2ty2qeA[/media]
That’s the problem His damage potential isn’t that high, and although he has easy execution, its all basic moves. No overheads, nothing that juggles or bounces, not even good mid attacks. If Bison attacks you, you just crouch block and be prepared to throw tech. No worries of high low mixups, or what happens if he hits you.
THe problem is, a few other characters can do this too. Vega still has better pokes than Bison now, as well as overheads and moves that hit multiple times (allowing you to tag in a character while opponent is in blockstun). There is no reason to use Bison, when other characters are MUCH MUCH better.
sHK is ass. Hitbox is almost identical to sMK, which needs to be fixed. If you’re catching your opponent with it as an AA, they’re fucking up. And Hell Attack is quite good, however that’s like being shot in the leg, and being told at least you weren’t shot in the dick
I just message them before they message me, with one word:
nope
Holy crap, you’re not obligated to play Bison.
but i want to 
Then play him … I feel you on the shortcomings, but if you’re remain focused on what he doesn’t have instead applying what he does have you’re just going to continue to be miserable.
I agree, u put it well delirium. I don’t get what people hope to achieve by whining instead of playing or switching a character. I don’t understand why anyone would want to play a character that doesn’t play the way they want, yet y’all are still moping and moping some more. Just drop him and pick up a character you actually like.
tangerine
I don’t know how good or bad bison is, im just trying to do my best to come up with as much tech as we can as fast as we can so we can see where we really stand.
That said, st. hk IS an antiair. Its just totally different than it was before. Buffed as a poke, weakened as an antiair, but it is totaly doable, I guarantee it. You just can’t use it the same way. It has fewer active frames and you cant hit them with the area above the knee anymore but it works. It absolutely works. Its not great (no AA has always been a signature bison weakness) but it’ll do the job, and its certainly no st.mk clone.
- Oh and if you want to compare bison’s pokes to vega’s pokes, it should be noted that his st. mk is 3f slower than ours and doesn’t quite go as far. Yea, cr. mp works, but that doesn’t have nearly as much range.and isn’t as good for ridiculous half screen launcher confirms. I would probably agree that vega is probably the better character overall what with his damage and options for extending combos with EX crystal flash but thats a separate discussion.
I have limitted access to the game, but I do have the bradygames guide so i have been diligently mining. I know that some of the frame data is wrong in the book, but assuming the values for bison are accurate, i have some ideas that maybe you guys could help me test out cuz i haven’t been playing enough to even get used to cleaning up my scissors motion.
So I was looking at the frames for his crouching normals, scissors, and his dash to see what is theoretically possible with dash cancelling and heres what i’ve come up with. Below i’ve listed the frame advantages we would get if we did the fastest possible scissors dash cancel off various crouching normals. I assumed you can cancel on the first frame of scissors into a dash since i haven’t heard of a minimum charge time. If there is, then it renders this info kind of useless, just a disclaimer.
cr. lp- don’t do it, you’re negative
cr. mp: -1 to +1
cr. lk- don’t do it
cr. mk- -1 to +2
So basically, it looks like cr. mp or cr. mk dash cancel might be a decent ticket to getting a frametrap/throw game going. Perfectly meaty cr. mp or cr. mk dash cancelled with leave us at positive right in the opponents face which is nice. I would be wary of doing this against dp characters, but there are plenty of characters without great reversals in this game (especially without meter). Granted the most likely scenario for this is that you would be cancelling from the first active frame (a punish or poke) which would leave you at -1, but if it is the second frame or onwards, you are even or better.
More interesting is if we could force ourselves even from spacing on canned setups. This would take labtime that i don’t have right now but if anyone of you are willing to do some legwork, it might turn out that there are certain blockstrings into cr. mk that set us up at the perfect range that it will hit on the 2nd,3rd, or even 4th active frame. For example, if our good ol’fashioned cr. lp, cl. lp, cr. mk puts us at a distance where the cr. mk will not hit on the first frame, perhaps we can exploit this. If that doesn’t work, there may be another string that puts us just a bit further back like st. lk, st.lk, cr. mk. I don’t have the answer right now but the reason i think it is likely that we can pull this off is because i know that in SF4, crossup j. mk, cr. lp, st.lp, cr. mk xx scissors is an example of where the cr. mk hits on one of its later active frames because of spacing. There might be setups like that here which would be good because it means we could produce pressure off cr.mk. The same applies to cr. mp but it is harder because of cr. mp’s greater startup
TL;DR: cr.mk/cr.mp dash cancelled to pressure might be a real thing.
Long time lurker, enjoying reading everyone’s thoughts on Bison. I originally picked this guy in SSF4AE because I just couldn’t win consistently with Ryu. I guess my inspiration for playing this character was the original cheap boss on SF2, so I always play thinking if it were possible to be that cheap in today’s games hehe…
So, yeah, I do agree Bison got the short end of the stick in SFxTK. For the most part I play him the same in this game but I’ve been finding Devil’s Reverse to be very useful in a lot of practical situations. Some people just don’t block it for some reason, or maybe they don’t know you can’t punch him out of it (most of the time, anyway). Also, is it just me, or some players get confused when DR is coming and they just rolled away on wakeup? DR control is a bit more loose in this game so it seems you can tap left, right, left on the stick to fly around like crazy and confuse your opponent with little risk…
Usually my followup to DR is just s.MK chained to cr.HK for the knockdown, then I have a lot of options after that. On really good players, that tactic never works, though; you just have to take advantage of the long range on s.MK and out-footsie your opponent.It seems I drop Bison’s Scissors a lot in this game, probably because of what was mentioned already (you need to hit FORWARD at the end instead of Down Forward…argh), so it’s usefulness has went down a bit. Still trying to figure out a practical scenario for medium/high Scissors to be useful. Psycho Crusher is a lot more useful in this game, though it can get you cornered!
I dunno if Capcom reads these character forums, I hope they realize Bison really needs some type of high/low mixup or a wallbounce or something! Then again, maybe they wanted more players to try the Tekken guys in this game.
are you guys taking notes? we get it. bison isn’t sf4 bison. play to bisons’ strengths.
Oh, I forgot to report I lab’d it up with a friend last night who is going Bison/Orge. He concluded that another reason people have issues doing scissor kicks is because THEY INCREASED THE CHARGE TIME in addition to the strict input. He pretty much said the same thing I was- Bison is a support character. I learned some combos but dang, some of them require one frame links and the payoff isn’t exactly worth it nor is it very likely Bison will be landing some of those combos due to game mechanics and his floaty jump. I think playing him as a support character is our best bet. But poking the crap out of characters who can do nothing about them and jumping in on those who can’t AA is fair game too. I’m learning to play him as his own character and slowly making progress. I think vs some characters with crap pokes and AAs we can get away with playing more aggressive than usual. I just question if these characters will be seen at competitive play, y’know? Only time will tell.
Double post because I can!!!
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff309/snipernightowl/bison-1.jpg
[media=youtube]2qiKhLs0jQw[/media] The reference
idk about you guys, but after a lk sk knockdown if you do mp/hp PS the wake up roll follows the PS, apply the mind fuck to it
PS?
Hey if psycho shot is in this game, someone let me know the input lol
It’s an fn shame that the chief antagonist in the SF universe has been relegated to support duty. I wonder if his Tekken counterpart will be so unfortunate?
damn i was playing EX plus lol
i meant crushers sorry for the confussion
In T x SF of course…because we know where he stands now.
If it means anything, he’s gonna be worse.
He doesn’t fit in a Tekken game at all, that’s why I actually have my doubts on him appearing in TxSF. Unless Harada decides to surprise us, which happens.