i see where he quoted but i dont see where it was in the original post nor do i see where that original post was edited but chuns c.lk does not beat iron mans launch :wonder: unless im misinterpreting something which is highly likely.
nah, i was saying that chuns j.lk removes mags c.lk opener option the same way that ironmans launcher does.
oh ok.
You’re a bit too optimistic about your character… there is absolutely no chance for the opening to be in chun’s favor when she loses in every basic opener when both characters do the same thing. Loses on the ground to c.lk, loses in the air to j.lk. All she has is j.lk beating c.lk, yeah well if you do c.lk and he does trijump lk, you lose in the same manner. You have to guess RIGHT to win, he has to guess either right or the same thing as you are and he wins, that’s not a 40/60 endeavor sorry. Your list you made above is flawed.
and for the record… mag c.lk beats ironman’s glitched launch. Try it out for yourself, he never can get elevated to make it whiff if mag glitches c.lk.
This Team A vs Team B thing got totally off track to Chun cs Mag opening, imo, lol.
Back to Clockwork vs Combofiend, if I might… I’ve played that match-up on both sides. Whenever I’m on the Clockwork side, I do notice that in my Sent match-up, usually vs Magneto, I’m relying on a lot of doom to keep him off while spacing effectively with Sentinel. Nothing new; who the hell uses Strider’s assist reliably out of a combo?. What I see differently is the Strider vs whatever-in-Combofiend match-up mid-way through the match. I might have missed a few points, but a few people are making it seem like Doom is going to be the perfect assist against snuffing out IM’s anti-air 99% of the time. Personally, this was not the case for me whenever I was actually trying to either a) get some room with Strider, or b) get in with Strider to start the trap. Yes, after I’ve got the trap going, doing it well will snuff out most of Combofiend’s assist-calls to escape the trap, but isn’t that the point of many of Clockworks match-ups anyway? Getting in though, IM’s assist in my experience has kept me from randomly teleporting in other-wise-safe conditions to an edge close to my opponent’s side of the screen. No good Magneto or Sentinel is going to call IM and just stand there doing nothing. They’ll either attempt to catch you if it hits, or protect IM like any Marvel player would protect their assist. Half the time, this means they’re in the air doing something. Overheads > Doom’s assist from both Magneto and Sentinel. IM’s anti-air > Strider’s teleport getting in, assuming that’s what he’s trying to do. Granted, he can throw out a lion then xx into Orbs, but what credible Strider/Doom player lion + Doom xx Orbs from across the screen randomly when their opponent is not even in blockstun to begin with? That’s a free SJ (and possible avoidance of entire trap, depending on character). Personally, that’s how I’ve seen Strider/Doom vs Combofiend in my match-ups. Doom/Sent vs whatever is too general beyond that point, IMO. Their strategies really apply to 99% of their match-ups vs top-tier anyway.
Just my two cents…I’m at school with some free time, and I figured I’d leave my thoughts. I probably have a few errors in it I’ve overlooked.
Thats why im asking for more input. Lets make another list.
You have to consider these things.
1.Im 99% sure her j.lk trades with mags j.lk
2.She has 2 options that can beat anything mag does. 3 at most.
Woops, my mistake.
50’s comment on whoever winning the match-up on Sent vs Magneto is true. It’s one of the biggest factors in deciding the rest of the match. We all know IM has a fairly harder time getting in on Sent than the rest of the top-tiers (prepares for IM fanatics to flame), and that’s not aided by the fact that a dead Magneto obviously leads to an IM coming in with either Sent-a or Sent-g (imo, Sent-G will have a much easier time if Magneto gets completely raped). Either way, IM’s going to pretty much have to 1-hit Sent and most probably achieve that by DHCing to his Sent. Assuming Strider comes in and gets some breathing room, he’s going to have a significant amount of meter in the hands of any skilled Strider/Doom player to go up against a Sent/IM. So, to put it shortly, the team that wins the first match-up gains a substantial advantage voer the other team, as 50 put it.
Theory marvel never gets anywhere its retarted. Chun’s potential damage is nothing compared to Magnetos potential damage off of one hit in the beginning so why is this even being argued?
What if a magneto does a manual c.lk at the beginning every time? what are you going to do with chun then? if you attempt to jump up forward or up back your going to get hit by c.lk. Just in case people dont know, manual c.lk beats Glitched c.lk or even other characters glitched moves that arent 1 frame. How bad will mag get punished if he just crouches and calls psyblade? or if he just does c.lk,c.mk? Mag makes everything in the game against every character and every duo and every team a 50/50 match up at the least. Hes too full of shit :tup:
your dead on about the manual c.lk, i just haven’t had enough practice to just frame that shit yet. but that would essentially dead every characters opener in the game. one day i’ll be able to do it :lovin:
but mag’s can’t block and call psy blade against chun, that is the only edge i feel she has on the opener. the shit is for real too fast to freaking block, has to be like 3 or 4 times as fast as a mag tri jump. i guess i could try doing a fireball backwards motion on the stick and see how that goes because if she doesn’t hit you low on first couple frames of fight then she’s gunna stomp, its just so dam fast.
i totally agree with you about the potential damage factor as well x_X
tell me how u feel about matrix vs msp !!!
ok so pretty much i need to keep the momentum in my favor so doom cant be called to turn the tides. i need to continue practicing then.
im still interested in here what people have to say on matrix vs msp.
LOL!
You think chun has less potential damage off one hit?
ALL three of her infinites do more than the rom. Even the weakest of her infinites has a roundhouse in it.
Shom to 20 hits, tenshouxxkikoshou is like 70%. And you can build meter/do as many unmashable supers as you want in the same combo after that 70%.
20 hits of ground infinite call drones, 1000ks is more damage than 50 Rom hits un mashable.
So im gonna have to call BS on that one. Chuns damage is waaay higher than magnetos, even with out perfect execution. Especially if you factor in shaking HGxxMT. Keep in mind ive been playing chun for like just months 50, I love magneto too…but this is very true. She can 100% sentinel with 1 unmashable super ~.~. She can do the same thing to normal sized chars too. Her damage potential is stupid. Im talking about Chun/Sent/Psy, not even factoring tron in.
Manual c.lk isnt gonna beat j.lk, no reason to direct it…psy and stomp still hit straight up. Or a backdash that dodges lows?
And j.stomp beats mags j.lk clean, thats what I was forgetting.
How is it BS if Magneto can do a 300% combo to your entire team? Chun can take off a chunk just like anyone else can but your not considering the easy bullshit factor that magneto has. Hes much faster and harder to block on opening, he has unescapable unblockables on alot of characters especially sent. I admit that chun has good damage potential but can she easily and in more than one way kill your entire team with pure bullshit?
I dont want to make it seem like im trying to squash this discussion because thats not what this thread is for, im just trying to be as realistic as possible with the match up.
I understand where you are coming from. At the same time lets look at magneto off one hit:
1~rom to the wall - HGxxMT - ( rom - HGxxMT ) xN
2~rom to the wall unmashable
no other real options other than a snap or a double snap off one hit. every HGxxMT is chance to escape. rom to the wall 45-50 hit rom unmashable isnt gonna kill without a DHC or a reset (another chance to block or get out).
Lets look at chun off one hit. She has completely different options off a connected low/standing mid or an overhead connecting.
1~c.lk, s.mp SJC AD lk, FP, RH, (n.jump AD lk FP RH)xN
This only works on standing characters, but most of the time you catch try to catch people blocking high with c.lk anyway…
2~c.lk, (hit confirm) c.mk + psy - (s.lp, s.RH SJC lk, down+RH, AD lk (pause) RH)xN
No room for a mistake/double snap, use this if you connect a low on someone crouching
3~j.lk (overhead hit confirm) call psy, down +RH, AD, lk, (pause) RH, s.lp
this goes into the same inf i mentioned above off overhead.
Option 1, the ground infinite, does over 70% damage at 20 hits. Way more than rom. Pop a super or two, 100% solo easy.
Options 2 and 3, the shom infinite, lead into the same super loop, so you can take someone to the wall and again do a 100% solo easy on magneto.
I assume when you say “300% combo on your whole team” you are making reference to guard breaking back into the Rom - HGxxMT tempest loop. Chun is doing a j.lp + psy guard break, into a kikoshouXXhsf 100% DHC combo.
So where you say mags is killing a whole team off one hit, he is really offering either chances to block out (resets) or chances to mash out.
Chun is offering no chance for escaping resets or mashing, and off one hit doing 100% without a DHC. Her guard break goes directly into her DHC 100%, leaving the assist char vs. Sent/psy/chun. This is in effect killing the whole team off one hit, unless you see a solo assist char coming back against the angles that sent/chun covers. This is all done with no resets, and no mashable situations.
Chun and pretty much everyone else has those same “unblock ables” on sent you mentioned btw.
Well quite honestly i find it interesting that chun even has that many options.
In regards to mag letting people escape, his efficiency off of a hit is still outrageous.
First off from to hyper grab tempest can easily be mashed out so im not going to include that. It doesn’t matter how many opportunities you give someone to get out of ROM. Mag/psy is all about putting characters into guessing situations which pretty much is the worst situation in the game next to IM hitting you.
Secondly when your in the guessing situation you have to deal with someone who can pretty much ambiguously cross you up with every button. Magnus is all about Momentum and once he gets it, its crazy hard to stop him. If he lands even just one of his infinite amount of resets than he can kill you with a half assed rom or five fierce.
Until i either see the setups youve mentioned in practical use or i get one touch killed by a chun-li then i really wont be convinced that chun/sent/psy has better damage output than mag/anything.
If possible can you make a vid out of it so that you can make me a believer.
Oh and btw about the unblockables =D theres several ones out that mag has that a lot of people don’t know about
I need some help I’m trying to pickup Strider,Cable,Tron and I’m facing MSP thanks in adv.
aight then combofiend(proj) vs combofiend(drones)
which is better? i see a lot of players using drones lately so whats the benefits?
I dunno, I understand what you are saying about chun li I just think its a little too theoried out there. this is my last post on the mag/psy vs chun/sent/psy issue.
OPENER
chun-c.lk to infinite
-instant overhead to infinite
mag -c.lk to infinite/bullshit
-s.lp to infinite/bullshit
these are the onli two that matter to me because if you do one of these then somebody wins and somebody loses. i feel chun-li has the edge on opener JUST because you can’t sit and block it, because he heel is so fast.
IN GENERAL
-outside of getting hit, lets say its now chun team vs msp disregarding what happened on opener, I feel like chun-li is at a huge disadvantage now for a couple reasons.
-she doesn’t have an 8 way airdash so it is easier to call psy correctly in order to
get mag’s infinite off. not having an 8 way airdash also makes it harder for her
to protect her psy in the ‘get a hit’ battle. not having an 8 way airdash…as
stupid as this sounds, makes hypergrasp a lot more viable against chun because
she doesn’t have an easy mode way to trick the hyper grasp’s tracking manner.
-in my opinion, i guess we’d have to sit down and test it to see who’s right, but
i believe that magneto’s air lk’s have more range then any dashing attack chun-li
can throw out, making simple j.lk+psy a problem for a airdashing chun, at best for
chun she trades. at higher levels of the screen i dont think chun has an air
normal to deal with sj.fp, sj.rh either. i believe the only way chun MIGHT trade
or beat magneto’s normals in the air is to develop tricky…and i mean REAL tricky
triple jump tactics in order to gain height advantage to make her hitboxes beat
out magneto’s…and if she is that high, what can she do?
-magneto has double snap situations all of the time due to his snapback range…
i dont think chun can begin to simulate that, snaps are the easiest 100% in
marvel
GUARDBREAKing
I understand the gb you mention with chun-li but is that the only one? You can get out of that guardbreak by timing a funky pushblock and frame killing to get out (like mag or sentinel’s air supers to a storm hailstorm). magneto’s guardbreaks are much harder to time and escape. he has a guardbreak for every day of the week.
my conclusion is the only thing chun-li does have over magneto is a one hit for sure kill…and im just saying that because you are saying it, i’ve never really seen the whole 100% gone, I guess your talking about taking the character into the corner super to hsf and unblockabl’ing them. I suppose if you put the time and effort anything is possible, but mag just sits in easy mode.
Sent-a vs Sent-y:
Sent-a, offers you a super-armored RP that dishes out a solid 25 pts of dmg.
-tough to trade w/ for some characters
-quick assist punish on counter-call
-could lead into ROM/IM inf/launch/super/snap
Sent-y, offers you a multi-hitting projectile that dishes out a solid 24 pts of dmg if all 3 connect
-something to think about as the 2 players move around
-little shield use…but Sentinel himself sort of does that (which means Sent-a is better for this as he is called in front of you)
-useful in situations where you create FSD or just plain launch and hit into drones
-more applicable as a cross-up tool than Sent-a although Sent-a can still be used
Both have cross-up potential. Sent-a offers more flexibility as far as linking goes, since you don’t have to time too far ahead mid-combo to land it. I would vote Sent-a as the best for Combofiend overall. If the Mag player wants to worry less about having to ‘get in’ then Sent-y might take the stage. There may be other advantages noticed by the players actually using it competitively though. IM, on the other hand could just as well use Mag-a and better in some scenarios. As you can see though, the uses are situational, so both good assist choices.
yeah thats what i came up wit but wanted to see any other options one type would offer over the other
Sent y gives IM options he didnt have with sent a. Its a good pinning tool for both mag and IM, and it gives them the option to control the pace of the match against characters like sent or cable. Rp is mainly for raw damage, drones control space and offer even more combo options than rp does but it requires you to extend your combos. Sent sheilds point character no matter what assist. Drones also gives combofiend the option of solid runaway, for instance nj. ub hyper grav+ drones covers a 90 degree angle of attack, it works OK with rocket punch as well but doesnt offer the same coverage of space.
In that matchup if played right sent Y can control the pace of the match and can make it very hard for RP assist to even be useful unless comboed into. If you have faith in your execution than i suggest going with Drones, if you want easy damage and smaller error margin go with RP.