Just play the damn game.
no one can teach me marvel because i’m too stuck on Jin/doom/stryder and that shit sux. =D
I’m getting a lot of the expected “Just play the game” response. Like I mentioned before, of course that’s great and all, but training mode and fighting the computers only helps so much. There may not always be people around to practice with. Or even worse you play the same people over and over again.
Also, I think there is a point where people can be so out of their league that playing the game is just wasting their money and no real learning experience.
On top of that, not everyone learns the same way. While I know it’s frowned upon to do nothing but read forums, watch youtube vids, read frame data, and spend time in training mode, as opposed to just “playing the game”, I won’t deny that it’s helped me a hell of a lot. What works for you may not work for someone else. I try to use everything at my disposal to learn, not just limit myself to conventional methods.
Anyhow, I think some games are a little simple to warrant tutorials maybe. However since I see no one else volunteering I wouldn’t mind teaching anyone what I know about 3S. I may not be top-tier, but I feel I know enough about the game to teach someone else, or even help someone who feels they are struggling.
For those of you interested in learning CvS2, it is simple: just learn to roll cancel.
Again, play the game. DO IT.
I myself am a shit teacher. Hell, I barely even articulate stragegy in person because I find it a chore. Probably because I am fueld by heart and courage, such things cannot be taught.
For instance when looking at marvel it is important to get a feel for the game. Once you understand exactly what the hell is going on, you can get raped repeatedly by human competition and gradually improve. There is no easy way around teh rape.
Never true. If you watch exactly how you got raped, see what you’re missing (i.e. Not keeping up with cross-up trijumps, etc), then you can always walk away with a better knowledge of the game, and apply strategies you saw used against you against others at your level. Never say that some people are just too far out of your range. The second time I went to Zach’s, I played Row twice. Because I watched what he did against me and gradually figured out the rapage, I learned how to defend against it better. The first time, he OCV’ed me with little effort. The second, I took out his Magneto with Cable. If he isn’t as far beyond my level as can be, then I don’t know who is.
Once again, not true. Any game, as simple as can be, can help greatly with tutorials. Take ST for example. By reading JChensor’s tutorials, I was able to consistently beat Balrog, Dee-Jay, and Claw, her biggest disadvantage match-ups. I would never have gotten there so fast by just playing.
That said, I’d be glad to hear some tips on playing against Makoto/Ken. Those two are my biggest weaknesses, and I’m sure you have some knowledge on those 
Easy for you to say :sad:
Truth. Wanna bust out that Colossus for another win on Friday?
It might also be because of persons learning curve.
Some people learn better watching than playing, or some people learn better by actually being told what NOT to do.
Like with me, the first year I started playing 3S, I played @ the arcades and home for maybe a month, and then basically said fuck this. Then for the next 9 months all I did was watch 3S match videos NOT tutorials or Combo Videos and watched matches from all over the world, the States, Korea, Australia, Germany, France, England, Mexico, Canada, EVERYWHERE I could think of. And then after 9 months I picked up the stick again witht he knowledge I had gained and now I’m pretty damn good @ 3S. I still rarely actually physically practice but I watch a lot of match videos still so I can comprehend when and what to parry, what are good counters/wake ups/ex usage and to understand match up types better.
I’m a visual learner, some people are physical learnes and have to play to learn.
Althought I agree with what you said, everyones learning style is different. If you’re pissed the entire time you’re getting owned, you won’t learn anything your just focusing on how bad you got man handled instead of seeing the bigger picture: WHY you got man-handled.
edit: I have a feeling this is going to be a good thread, kinda how the constructive critisim thread should been. lol All great posts so far.
let’s just say what I was drinking came out my nose a little after reading this.
You mean chun?
hmm. Well your options change drastically depending on who you’re playing.
Makoto is a very easily punishable character.
-her hayates (dash punch) is -12 on block so you have a huge window to punish any of those on block. On hit many makotos will go for a karakusa(command grab) . You can get out of this two ways: 1) jump, 2) dp type-move. Most makotos will watch what you do the first time and respond accordingly the next time she connects a hayate. Also, the ex version is completely safe on block. I cannot tell you how many times I have hit someone because they thought it left me open. Also if you throw out to many normals to build meter, makoto will hayate you as you are recovering, so try to be a little conservative if you expect this.
-She has very little low options. The only moves that hit low are c.lk, c.fp, and f.rh. At medium range the only low she can do is sweep and it is punishable at max range with things like reversal super, etc. (character specific).
-She has little to no wakeup/defensive options. If you press the attack on makoto wakeup/cornered be fearless. The only thing she can really do is ex shoryu (which will probably get stuffed), block low, or parry something obvious. As long as you don’t do something to cause the latter, you’ve got the match in the bag. She may seem strong in the corner with the SAII setups, but trust me you have the advantage.
-Her s.mp and c.mk leave her at frame advantage even on block. Try not to do something stupid after being hit with one of these. People that have sloppy rushdown will eat a lot of c.mk->SAI which causes like half-life bar damage, so try not to run into this. These are also her most common tick throws. You can try to srk after one is blocked if you are certain they are going for the grab, but you have little time to react due to the heavy blockstun, so jumping is probably better.
-her c.rh is safe on block
-her lp/mp oroshis(overhead chop) are NOT safe on block and do not knockdown. FP oroshi is safe on block but is extremely slow. If you see a fast oroshi that isn’t ex and you block it, go for reversal super or whatever your b&b punisher is.
-Don’t go for sweeps if you can help it, as she can punish them at max range with FP hayate->SAI, or just fp hayate then whatever.
-SRK type moves shut down like 90% of her mixup game so don’t be afraid to whip them out if she is getting to crazy with the offense.
-many makotos will go for a reset after an ex hayate in the corner. You can get out of the followups for this the same way you can a regular karakusa setup (jump/dp type move)
That’s all I can think of for now. If you have a specific question or a specific character to matchup with in mind let me know.
It’s true. Like Stu said, if you know why you got manhandled, you are less susceptible to getting the same treatment in the future.
I’m a quick learner, but that’s mainly because I grew up with a cool head (probably because my life was so messed up, I had to learn to cool down and look at things objectively). When it comes to a game I know I’m going to lose, I don’t get too into the game. I just take a kind of passive role and try what I think might work and see what’s shutting me down.
I meant Dee-Jay, Boxer, and Claw. Chun is a disadvantageous matchup, but it isn’t a major one. Her cr. forward beat’s Cammy’s, and you can’t cross her up, but other than that, it just comes down to mind games.
I play Chun primarily in 3s, so without the SRK moves, what can I do to shut down mixup? Does the cr. forward stuff Makoto pokes? Or does Makoto still have frame advantage?
Also, how do you shut down Makoto when she does a lot of dash in> karakasa’s? Is poking her out of it advantageous? Or do you just try to get the hell away from her when she dashes in?
lol no I meant that you didn’t say who “her” was in your earlier post.
-You may not have an srk but you still have options. I’m not sure if it will stuff all post hayate mix-ups or general makoto mix-ups, but the closet thing you have is ex spinning bird kick. It’s a decent anti-air or wake-up move but I wouldn’t use it all the time.
-Post hayate if you expect a karakusa you can do df.rh x c.mk x super.
-As for the second part, cr.forward connecting means you rape makoto with hit confirm super. If you don’t have meter use fp kikoken which is safe on block. You can also do b.fp x fp kikoken. If they block the c.mk you can also do s.fp afterwards and you are pretty safe, plus it pushes them pretty far away.
-You can pretty much just spam b.fp and it will beat or trade almost anything makoto does in terms of dash/jump-in. It recovers really fast and is active for incredibly long so it is VERY hard for someone to hayate punish it, and the risk is usually not worth it. Really shutting down dashes is just a matter of timing. If you sit there keep doing b.fp rythymically of course your opponent is going to know exactly when to dash/ex hadou/etc. Try to mix-up the pokes you are using and vary your timing so you don’t get predictable.
-Other pokes I’d recommend using are s.mp (hit confirm super, some anti-air properties/deceptively large hit box), s.rh, f.rh (think you can link super on crouchers for this one) s.mk (crazy anti-air, don’t use at close range though), s.fp (good after blocked c.mk or at max range. Has a bit of a start-up so try not to use close up).
-Try not to build meter too close. You basically give an opening to dash throw/hayate.
-At max range whiff b.fp like there’s no tomorrow.
-You can try to put distance between you and her, but I’d recommend using c.lp to stuff her mix-up game. It’s the fastest normal in the game, can be repeated to put more space between you, and sets-up your kara-throw. next time try c.lp then kara-throw. A lot of chun’s will do this when they get cornered and sense a tick throw from their opponent (i.e. ken does c.lk, walk up, chun does c.lp before he can throw)
-characters take more damage when dashing so it is very advantageous to nail her when she does. Plus if you manage to knock someone out of their dash it will put them on defense which will leave you free to build meter (which is your overall goal)
-this is a bit of a weird match as you can actually rush down/corner makoto instead of turtling. Due to makoto’s lack of defense options/wake up game, you’re are pretty safe rushing down as long as you don’t get predictable. Makoto will eventually just end up in the corner getting thrown and eating overheads til death. She has little to no ability to stop you seeing as how chun’s kara-throw has a VERY large range. You can do use short/jab to tick throw, use short/jab to space to do max range UOH -> super, and just general mix-ups. Say you throw someone twice and you think she will go for a tech, do cl.rh x sjc x SAIIx sjc to whatever and you have another mixup obviously. Then assuming they expect a standing move, you can either do c.mkxxSAII or tick/walk-up throw.
-finally this may seem small but it is important. Chun has an incredibly fast walk speed. Makoto has the slowest walk speed in the game. Don’t always dash everywhere, and you’ll soon learn that it’s easy to destroy people who do. Your walk speed is actually a mix-up. You can stand right on top of makoto on wake-up and then walk backwards, she’ll go for a throw, then walk forward karathrow/throw/c.mkxxSAII/whatever.
-Jumping away can be a decent option but it can also lead to you eating two hayates, a c.rh + reset, oroshi, or other such horribleness. Blocking can also lead to infinite karakusa->FPxFP hayate. Really, you just have to guess what they expect you to do to figure out what they are going to do. If you blocked the last few times, they will probably try to karakusa you until it stops working. If they hayate then just b.f/c.mk super.
will give ken notes in a bit. Hope this helps.
Heh… some good tips taken from that one. The massive Chun breakdown might’ve been a bit too much. I can’t believe you’re advising the use of the EX spinning bird kick, though. That’s horrible against Makoto on the ground. Makoto’s too short Crouch under ftw. Decent anti-air/punisher, though.
And the b+fierce is only a good idea at max range. It actually DOES have slow recovery that can be easily punished, if you know the timing. I punish it with necro’s db+fierce all the time (whiffed b+fierce, not blocked).
lp to stuff mixup game. Thought so ^_^. Good to have that one confirmed. Makoto=slowest walk speed. That’s one to remember. I use the Chun walk mixup quite well, but it’s that super-fast dash Makoto has that tricks me. I guess b+fierce is good for that, then? I figured the startup is too slow (for the hayate). And what’s an easy way to tell when Makoto is going for the dash (and how to read whether it’s the hayate or dash flying at you)?
Audio cues are the best way to tell when someone is going to hayate. If you hold down punch on qcf+p she will say “ikuze”. If you just do a normal punch you will hear “i-chesto”. When she dashes she makes no noise plus she crouches a little so she can actually go under some high moves on start-up (same with her ex fukiage).
Honestly I don’t think you can tell for sure unless you think about what you’ve been doing. If you are being really conservative and blocking, it’s probably dash throw. If you’re whiffing a lot of meter builders it’s probably a hayate. You can screw them up by walking back and forth as well. If she does a hayate and you’re moving forward you get a parry, if she does when you move back you get a block. Either way it’s a free punish.
If you can’t tell just do that and if she goes for a dash karakusa go for a throw as soon as you see them dash and hopefully it will at least tech if not you will succeed. Remember you cannot tech a command throw with a throw, but a command throw will tech a throw. Since you’re throw will invariably come out faster (since all you have to do is push two buttons instead of hcb+k) you have a good chance of success. The other ironic thing is that makoto can be easily hit out of the startup frames of the hayate. Sometimes if you’re lucky you can throw her out of them as well.
Don’t knock the ex spinning bird kick without trying it. Yeah she can crouch under it, but if you’re using it, it’s probably because you want her to get the hell off you. Makoto doesn’t spend a whole lot of time crouching when she’s rushing down. Or at least most of her options require her to be standing. (i.e. s.mp, karakusa, oroshi, hell even jump straight up then tsurugi(axe kick)/fp/rh, etc.)
Edit: Lol it’s actually kinda funny.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=4067734#post4067734
I got neg repped down to two then went up to 7.
Lol. Who else repped you? I don’t think I added seven bars at once
Though I <3 the Firefly av enough to give you ten ::lovin:
Don’t smell like B.O. a lot of people will want to be around you if you don’t.
And if people wanna be around you, you can learn to play teh gamez…lulzzzz
Here’s another serious post from me for once. This is something I actually do, so don’t think I’m joking about this. I practice with Rocky IV-Training Montage, playing in the background. Enhances vigor and promotes a never say die attitude.
I think if I start doing this my execution will increase by like 400%
Thx for the bombass tip deezo!
Well That’s all I did to get to your standards…
I mean I admit i fuckin suck at 3s. (1st time actually tryna to play… I was tryna to parry Chun-Li’s SAII… bad start…) and all I did during the whole summer was watch You, Kenny, and Zack play 3s and Marvel… I mean I need alot more practice in Marvel but I kno I need to learn alot more and thats when I went to Yakima and bought 3s and Marvel and a Stick… (and sum chronic :smokin:) and was in the Danger Room like all day everyday once I got off work… Then Kenny came to the Yak and playing with him and still picturing your style of play and his and Zack’s really helped me alot… Thats why I was ready to see you First to 5 and prove myself that,“Yea I’ve been training, Yea Ima Sav!” whats so ever… and I did…
and you can have your rematch whenever you come back i’ll be ready again…wasnt last time stoned… you kno how we do it in the SOUTH… lol!
But besides all that…
I give you and Kenny props for steppin up my game…
Back in 92, I did not have youtube or the internet. Just some buster ass trick ass marks in some dirty ass arcades.
Heart is all you need when take a ride into the danger zone.
This, with the power of Turbo Negro, is the best post evar.
PS: Aegis Reflector > Most women.
It’s been fun! lol! I’m waiting for the other stick to get here.
We shall beef!!! Oh Yes!!! We shall beef!