Mhh, when I go for a cross up splash and my enemy flips after I hit him, what went wrong? When does that happen? I think this is related to the corner. It’s odd.
I can explain that. When you did the crossover splash and the opponent flips after hitting him, you basically stuffed him while he was airborne and therefore he resets afterwards and lands on the ground rather then getting knocked down.
One good example I come across is when I’m facing Ryu Players. I’d knock them down, do a crossover splash as they’re getting up and they attempt to reversal SRK (Which is an airborne after a certain amount of active frames). Since I crossed over, he’ll whiff the SRK, I’ll stuff him out of it and he’ll just reset in the air and land.
Im a new T hawk player and have been loving him so far! I just have a few questions right now, Im sure Ill have more later…
Is there ever a reason to use u2? (Im sure this has been asked but ill ask again.)
What is the most effective way to close the distance? I have been using the dive varieing the height as well as the spire and its working well sorta. Should I use spire more? I hardly ever use spire.
When you have the oppurtunity to use Heavy Spd should you take it over light for the damage or is the better mixup positioning more important?
Thanks in advance Im sure Ill come back after I think up so more questions.
Glad you like Hawk 
I can answer your questions.
U2 is a good Ultra, but most Hawk’s prefer U1. U2 is good if you can crumple with LV2 Focus Attack, or against characters who you can turtle against. Personally for me, I like to use U2 in the Gief/Gen/El Fuerte/Guy/Vega/Dudley/Cammy/Bison matchup. Alot of these characters have a habit of jumping when turtled against, and so I find U2 pretty useful to keep them from doing it alot.
TBH, Spire is not very effective to close the distance, unless you’re using EX Spire. Regular Spire is just mostly good to whiff to build meter, or if you wanna risk a tick-throw setup. Against fireball characters there are alot of ways you can get past their projectiles. T.Hawk actually has 4 moves with projectile invincibility -
- EX Condor Spire
- EX Condor Dive
- J.Down MP (Elbow Drop) has Projectile Invincibility on his legs
- C.HK has Projectile Invincibility on his head
If a fireball character is throwing fast-moving projectiles at you, I find that MP Tomahawk can be useful to go over them while building some extra meter (LP Tomahawk can work too but the timing is much more strict). It’s too risky to use MP Tomahawk to go over slow fireballs because by the time you Tomahawk over the fireball the other character can just walk up to you and punish you as you’re about to land. (FYI, Ibuki’s Kunai and Cody’s Knife are not considered projectiles, but rather physical hitboxes)
Against non-projectile characters you just have to have good footsies. Hawk’s C.MK is a great poke, the best he can use for footsies.
Regarding the use of HP Mexican Typhoon, it really depends. If the character you’re fighting against has no good answers for pressure (Characters like Gen, Vega, Guile, etc) it’s better to use LP Typhoon in most cases to give yourself the positioning for a cross-up and an opportunity to do more damage. If the opponent has the lifelead, has a tricky wakeup, and/or can run away easily (Akuma, Seth, etc) it might be better to HP Typhoon to hopefully get a lifelead.
Hope this helps.
Thanks a bunch ChazzSteel. Ill try to put those into practice as I play.
Ill comment again when I have more questions.
Your welcome.
Keep them coming
What are the best uses for Thrust Peak?
I noticed on the main post that it says there is no hit confirm into knockdown for T.Hawk. You can do close jab into close HK for a knockdown.
Thrust peak is great for throwing out against people who like to press buttons, once you stuff a couple EX moves they will back off. Its also a little difficult but you can do thrust peak into tomahawk, and you can jab into thrust peak, so although I haven’t actually executed it yet I think you can do jab, jab, thrust peak, tomahawk.
This has been very helpful, I still have trouble when it comes to using T. Hawk. How should I train to get better, I still have issues getting in on most opponents sadly
If you want to improve enough to play at a competitive level it’s recommended that you go to a local tournament and play against some people there. If someone is willing enough to pay money out of their own pocket just to compete then chances are that person has some decent experience or better. Online is good practice too, but most people you’ll run into aren’t very experienced players, not to say that there aren’t some amazing online players out there but you just have to know when and/or how to find them.
I can give some advice on how to get in on your opponents. Even though T.Hawk is disadvantaged against most (If not all) projectile characters, the surprising thing is that T.Hawk has 4 moves with projectile invincibility, which makes him tied with Gen for having the most projectile invincible moves of any character in the game.
These 4 moves are -
- EX Condor Dive
- EX Condor Spire
- Elbow Drop (J + D.MP) has projectile invincibility on his legs
- Sweep has projectile invincibility on his head (Useful against High Tiger Shots and Viper’s Burn Kick)
Aside from his projectile invincible moves there are some other things you can do to close the distance on a fireball character. The MP Tomahawk can be really useful to go over fireballs while building some extra meter. However, if the opponent throws slow fireballs they can just easily dash up to you while you’re in recovery and punish you as you’re about to land, so only use MP Tomahawk to go over the faster moving fireballs. LP Tomahawk can be used to go over fireballs too but even with proper timing you’ll just barely miss it, so if you wanna use LP Tomahawk do so at your own risk. FA can be really useful too to absorb fireballs while dashing to get closer.
When playing against non-fireball characters, you just have to have really good footsies. C.MK is considered T.Hawk’s best footsie normal. It has good range, relatively fast startup, and can avoid some high attacks. Sweep can be helpful too since it has good range but it has to be used in moderation due to it’s slow recovery time. Condor Spire is really the only special move that T.Hawk has to control horizontal space, but the regular version is so terribly unsafe that all it’s really useful for is to whiff and build meter. If you know your spacing you can try and use Condor Spire to close the distance a little better or to create a tick-throw setup.
Hope this helps.
Thanks man, this is some good tips that I’ll try to put into practice.
Ok guys, what is the deal with this J.HP/Splash, HP, lp.Tomahawk combo? I can’t land it very easily, especially against normal sized or smaller opponents.Is there a trick to it? It seems pretty worth it at 354 dmg.
Also for the guys asking about thrust peak, it is good at stuffing dive kicks but its difficult to do on reaction.
Unless your execution is on a very high level you shouldn’t rely on it. Just keep going for the bnb and you’re good to go, it’s safer and deals good damage, too.
I know this sounds absurd but which bnb are you refering? Splash, cl.mp, tomahawk? Or?
You can now link close hp into dp but it’s character specific if its not working for you it’s likely one of the that it doesn’t work on.
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i need your help you guys. whats up with Candor Spires zomg.
lp -7 on block -5 on hit?
mp -8 on block -6 on hit?
hp -10 on block -8 on hit?
ex -3 on block -??? on block
i die inside a little everytime i fail to punish spires based on the above numbers. so my question:
can spires be spaced to be safe? -2 or -1 or even or +? please cover all versions. cause i played this thawk he did a block string then used ex spire, and followed with a normal. i could swear he was at +frame advantage.
Di,
Condor Spires are active for 9 (lp), 10 (mp), 11 (fp), and 9 (EX) frames and recover in 11/11/12/11 frames.
Frame data always assumes that a move hits on the first possible frame that it is active.
So let’s take a look.
Hitstun = Active frames* - 1 frame (the frame that you hit them) + recovery frames* + hit advantage* or - hit disadvantage*
Block stun = Active frames* - 1 frame (the frame you hit with) + recovery* + block advantage* or - block disadvantage*
- numbers from frame data chart
LP spire block stun = 8 +11 - 7 = 12 frames block stun
LP spire hitstun = 8 + 11 - 5 = 14 frames hitstun
if you hit someone with lp spire on the first frame it goes active, they are in hitstun for 14 frames, but you still have to wait for the remaining 8 active frames to finish as well as the recovery.
BLOCK ADVANTAGE = block stun - remaining active frames on move - recovery frames
HIT FRAME ADVANTAGE = hit stun - remaining active frames on move - recovery frames
12 block stun frames - 8 remaining active -11 recovery = -7 frames
14 hit stun frames - 8 remaining active - 11 recovery = -5 frames
the -7 frames is the block disadvantage and the -5 frames is the hit disadvantage
HOWEVER, if the move hits meaty, meaning on an active frame other than the first. the remaining active frames are different and the move can yield more frame advantage. Add 1 frame to your advantage for every frame that it’s meaty.
Since lp spire has 9 active frames, it has the potential to have 8 frames more advantage on block/hit (+1 on block/ +3 on hit) if it hits on that very last active frame.
(12 block stun - 0 remaining active - 11 recovery = +1 block advantage) / (14 hit stun - 0 remaining active -11 recovery = +3 hit advantage)
Apply the same formulas to the frame data of the other spires and you get:
light: -7/-5 at worst . BEST can be +1/ +3
medium : -8/-6 at worst. BEST can be +1/+3
fierce : -10/-8 at worst. BEST can be +0/+2
EX: -3 on block / TKD on hit (8 + 11 -3 = 16 block stun… 16- 8 - 11= -3 block disadvantage) At best though, EX can be +5 on block!!!
WOW. see now when i wanted to jump out after blocking ex spire as i remember i couldnt !! and felt like the move had +frame advantage. +5 this could lead to a true block string, frame trap, spd mixup…? is it common for you guys to use ex spire in this fashion?
i was surprised when it happened cause i dont play many good thawks, and didnt know that ex version could give +frames on block. zomg.
thanks for the explanation. i really appreciate you taking the time to explain it in depth. :oops:
Di,
It’s one of our best ways of getting in somebody’s face since it’s our only “safe” move. At the regular range in which hawk likes to go toe to toe, EXspires will probably end up being 0 at worst.