I know with Hawk I can do kick throw, then go for crossup MK afterwards. But sometimes it doesn’t work? I understand that this has to do with when he releases them from the hold. Right?
I know other characters can do this right? Like Honda, he can get crossup RH after his bear hug right? But when I try I can’t get it?
I realize it has to do with how they let them go from the hold, but is it also character specific? Are some characters just too fat for it to work on? Are there characters that I should never try it against? Characters that it rarely works on? Always works on?
Another thing… (too much i know) but which characters can do this stuff? I know Rog can do the walk under thing… Ken can walk under. Can Ken do crossup instead? Can Sim do crossup slide after Noogie? I think I remember reading that he can? I dunno.
yeah but you have to choose her ‘origional’ ST version by holding start or whatever the equivalent is on the xbox. Also since does anyone know of any other changes using this (apart from honda)?
to below: You can do it with everyone and to get O. ST guys you just hold start while selecting super. My question is whether it actually changes any other characters.
I haven’t tested it, but I would imagine that AE Claw can no longer switch his flip kicks charge from D/B to straight back. Also, AE Ken, Sagat, and Dhalsim can do reversal super (which they couldn’t in ST). Not sure whether or not true ST Ken/Sagat/Sim can do it in AE.
An easy way to test it is to do N.Ken’s instant j.Jab xx air Hurricane Kick against O.Sagat. If it all combos (4 hits total), then it’s Super Sagat. If it uncombos after the 2nd hit of the air Hurricane Kick, then it’s true ST O.Sagat.
I really don’t even want to bring that back up again. It was discussed before, and everyone agrees that his tier list is completely whack.
When I talked to Tamashima, his tier list was pretty much exactly what you’d expect…the four bosses plus Sim, then Ryu/Chun, etc. The only thing that stuck out was that they like DeeJay a lot more than we do.
yeah Claw can change his charge in true ST mode, I didn’t know about that. I tested everything else and those characters do have their reversal supers even though they didn’t in ST. So apart from chun and honda’s move storing and claws charge thing I don’t know of any other changes.
In case it isn’t clear, I’m talking about Origional or true ST characters in AE.
Actually looking at what r3ko posted, that list seems pretty accurate to the american one. In fact I don’t have any real complaints. But I play more HF than ST.
I hate rankings discussions. Tiers and such make people so damn lazy. I was watching the Evo 2k4 (?) where Kuni ran wild with Zangief in ST. He beat Seth Killian’s Honda, which is supposed to be an awful matchup for Gief. He also beat a Sagat, a Chun (?) and a Guile (?) or something like that. (Maybe he lost to Choi’s Guile but it was close)
Then you see Kokujin beating on people with Dudley in 3S. Not to mention people cleaning up with Q, 12, etc. How good are Morrigan and Ioiri in CVS2? Most people think they are ok, but one of the best players does very well with them. So shouldn’t they be near the top of the list?
To go into it a bit more:
Tiers are self-fullfilling, because characters that are agreed to be good get played much more often than “bad” characters. So those characters keep dominating as they have the numerical advantage.
Tiers are merely a measure of how well people play each character currently, which is highly subject to change. They are not a measure of actual character strength, although they pretend to be.
Tiers ignore matchups, which is silly especially in the US where we allow character switching.
Tiers are predicated on current knowledge of characters and matchups, which is also subject to change.
It really annoys me when people ask for tier lists. Conventional wisdom is often wrong - not just in SF but in all things. People would be wise to learn that.
i agree with some of your stuff, but that in the US where we allow character switching doesnt apply to this game. You watch xmania? they character switch all the time.
I think the thing people fail to recognize about tiers and counter characters is they only apply if you KNOW your characters. Someone who picks guile thinking they’ll beat my balrog isn’t going to beat my balrog with guile in a tournament. They have to be damn good at guile, even though its a bad matchup for him i practice that match more than others to make up for my weaknesses to him.
But did you know gief vs honda, honda doesnt get pushed back unlike all other characters after a piledriver? he is fat (my best reason for it) so he lands right next to gief after the spd.
I’m pretty sure character switching is not allowed at X-mania IIRC. And what version are you talking about, where Honda lands right next to gief after the spd? AE?
Hey Graham how come does Rog have such a hard time against Guile yet Rogs best matchup is against Ryu, which he can shoot off FB’s faster to trap, and has a better Anti air than guile, and like you said Rog’s c.mk beats guiles and Rog can also s.hp Guile when he does a Sonic boom, so what makes the matchup so bad, what am i missing? thanks
Different characters bounce different distances after an SPD. This is true for Zan and Hawk also. I forget which characters bounce where, I think NKI once posted a list of which characters Hawk could repeat tick after the first SPD and which ones bounced too far away. Honda does not bounce “right next to Gief” but I think he bounces less far than some other guys.
Guile is good against Balrog because of his boom recovery. After a projectile Boxer can do a lot of things like headbutt through the boom, jump neutral fierce, jump towards, etc. Guile recovers fast enough to react to most of these. If Balrog headbutts through Guile can hit him or walk up and throw, it Balrog jumps towards Guile can hit him, meet him in the air, etc.
For other FB characters they get stuck in recovery longer so they can’t react as well. Boxer can headbutt through the fireball and hit them, or land close to them without them being able to retaliate.
Ryu and other FB characters can’t FB trap Boxer in the normal sense where they throw FBs and DP jump-ins. Balrog can get around FBs in a variety of ways that Guile can deal with better than other characters.
Also once Balrog has meter it’s a lot safer for Guile to throw FBs than Ryu.
Guile plays a lot like Dhalsim in that their fireball games are not lockdowns, instead they are throw a projectile then react to what the opponent does. Whereas Ryu and Sagat are more get in the magical range where they just can’t do much, pelt them, and DP or sweep when they jump towards. Guile and Dhalsim are a lot more interactive in their projectile games.
try spding honda and walking up to grab him after one, he is the only character that like cant escape repeated spd attempts by the basic bounce done after an spd.
standing mp is used in special situations, crouching fierce is better because it hits early and late.
If you mean the standing mp far, thats what im talking about, its good for long range aa. The close one isnt really too useful unless you are attempting to throw and they try some sort of move to escape your tick attempt, if you had used strong to try to grab the close strong will come out usually and stop their move. thats why you dont try to cheap with fierce.
one last thing about aa, its better to aa with a fierce move if possible than a lower level move, if you have the luxury with your character. This is done because you can get them closer to dizzy, balrog dizzies pretty easily so yeah i like low fierce to aa.
