Wow, now THAT is ridiculous!
Exactly like that. It’s stupid that you stun so slowly that your opponent won’t get stunned until a series of consecutive attacks until they are almost dead.
Apparently Capcom hates demons now. They are unnecessarily nerfing Gouki for no reason and most recently look what they did to Dante and the dmc series as a whole.
if you mean dante in mvc3, it’s because he had like 5 100% combos and was a beast otherwise.
don’t whine about nerfs. nothing is accomplished.
oh no im not talking about mvc3 im talking about the actual dmc series…
I’m sorry, some of you are overreacting. I’m guilty of it too, but the thing is … Nothing’s been set in stone yet.
Personally, giving Akuma his stun back would make him damn near perfect in my eyes.
they don’t even need to give him his vanilla stun back. just more stun so that it is actually like he can stun someone. it’s basically useless at this point.
and what is with making fadc red fireball worse than ex srk? making something that requires more skill and looks cooler worse? it was one of his cool ass staples, srk fadc red fireball. now it’s useless. dumb move.
Well they’re attempting to bring that back by reducing EX SRK damage and increasing Shakunetsu damage.
I guess in Capcoms eyes they see Akuma as an offensive beast with so many ways to deal huge damage (which is true) that adding in stun is essentially icing the cake, which in turn, something he really doesnt need since he can melt your life bar on a single mistake.
best improvement would be lk tatsu sweep on all char.
That would be great. That or a cancelable sweep so he could do sweep fireball or sweep demonflip.
it will make life so much easier.
sweep cancellable is bad idea. because if its possible then ryu/ken will have it and it will become the worse nightmare. no more c.mk footsies use c.hk footsie!
yeah that would be nice too
the only thing i m worried about is the decreasing of his walkspeed
Yeah i was wondering, for the chars that you cant tatsu sweep: Was this programmed, or is this a consequence of a bunch of factors that wasn’t directly altered in a way that they thought was good. EX: ryu shouldn’t be able to be tatsu sweeped etc.
I’d take the helicopter loss over slower walk speed. They really should touch either. 
All they ever needed to do with vanilla Akuma was make his standing jab +6 on hit instead of +7. (and arguably add recovery to the Demon Flip throw to prevent option select from it… and maybe lose LK tatsu to sweep)
From there, remove the trade-Ultra ability from Ryu and Sagat (they failed this in SSF4) and then {a few little tweaks aside} just start buffing characters. That’s it.
Instead they nerfed Ryu, Sagat and Akuma so heavily that they had to go around and stick some nerfs to characters that initially needed buffs, to level it out. Some characters that were fundamentally naked in vanilla were just left as-is because of how much worse the cast had gotten.
The characters they got just right IMO were Chun Li and Bison, and basicly all they did was copy & paste two really solid, balanced characters from vanilla and then add an Ultra that they badly needed.
If they’d shoe-horned Vega’s SSF4 status directly into vanilla (which wouldn’t have been totally ideal, with him strengthened in light of a nerfed cast) he may not have been able to hang with the uppermost characters in match-up stability, but he’d certainly have been much more competitive and made for a more interesting meta game than before.
Vanilla Gen + buffs from Super intact and a much smaller meter gain nerf (SSF4 one was horrendous) would have been interesting indeed.
The nerfs even compounded a match-up between Ryu and Akuma that had been somewhat ambiguous in advantage into a clear 6-4 Ryu. Some actually argue that all characters should have holes and weaknesses, and all viable characters should be littered with a few 4-6s. I believe a characters style should be designed to do the job and to make up for any short-comings in other areas.
I’d much rather run vanilla Akuma against vanilla Zangief than a crappy nerfed Akuma vs a crappy nerfed Zangief.
A large list of very powerful characters only becomes a problem when the characters are threatening the engine itself and the tactics that it was designed to cope with. Only Ryu, Sagat and Akuma neared achieving this in SF4.
Sagat did, with one traded DP giving an effortless and meterless 630 damage; together no-less with the fact that all DP trades are inherently in Sagat’s favour regardless of any potential follow-up.
A world-class Gouki can damn-near break the stun and wakeup systems, with a mere cr.LK cr.LP going into 700 stun loops and option selects till next Thursday.
And Ryu kinda got near breaking the fundamentals, his flawless fundamentals being peppered with Ultra setups.
There is no danger of this happening in SSF4. That said, you should balance from the bottom up, provided the engine isn’t threatened. You use buffs to provide characters lacking options with the options they need to compete. The point of nerfs should be to prevent situations where the opposing player is excessively stripped of their own options and generally keep escalating tactics under control.
I am totally in agreement with a lot of your sentiment on what they did with stun (and damage) in this game. Infact, the only apparent difference between us on this is that I wasn’t prepared to accept the needlessly watered-down version they served up.
I really loved stun as it was before as it compells offensive momentum and encourages the attackers to go for the extra risk on wake-up to put the other guy down rather than just teleport away and sit on the life lead you got from your mix-ups. If a mix-up is not in an attackers favour, the attacker won’t want to mix-up.
I just carried on playing vanilla, and haven’t looked back with any doubt. Infact, it was just the other day I was watching a replay on youtube that I paused to feel bad for those of you who play SSF4:
[media=youtube]Zf8C0wv59Pc&fmt=22]YouTube - Tokido [Akuma] vs KEIKE DESORA [Gouken[/media]
Naturally Tokido is just absolutely sick here, and this vid is a testament to his unrivalled mastery of Akuma’s vortex. Notice the stun and pacing differences between round 2 and the others. The other player lands one attack and then gets two reads (only one that’s significant in terms of yomi) for flash stun and instant death. On the other side of the fight; getting 5 or 6 consecutive successful mix-ups may not be a bother for Tokido, but for those of us below those dizzy heights, probing for a stun with SSF4 Akuma is not even a competitive factor.
This may seem like it was a hundred years ago for some of you:
[media=youtube]DMqC4-W–Hk&fmt=35[/media]
I’m still playing an Akuma with a 600 damage Ultra, BnB combo extensions for 40%, a 190/200 SRK, a 110/200 sweep, 2 frames less recovery on air fireballs (EX too), a Demon Flip throw that does more stun, a 150/200 HP Shaku, fireball FADC into roundhouse combos and a Super with more grab range.
(… and a Kanji back symbol that doesn’t look dumb)
Any Bnb combo extended with LP SRK - FADC - EX Shaku did 40% with 650 stun at least, with good recovery for oki. Those done from a Dive Kick, Jump HK or far roundhouse were mid to high 400s with 700-800 stun. Follow up with 1 or 2 successful mix-ups as they wake and you got the stun follow up and the round virtually in the bag.
It’s too late for them to go back for buff characters now. The community wouldn’t support the idea of the cast having to compete with a Ryu who has more than 2 invincible frames on his HP Shoryu.
If they plan for this update to be sold, I wouldn’t want to pay for having my character shat on even more.
I really doubt it’ll be the ground one, simply because that would be a stupid and counter-productive move. If you can’t crouch his EX tatsu then it means you are forced into blocking (and taking chip from) every single hit of it, and given it’s the fastest moving tatsu, that would be BS. It’d start seeing use just as a chip tool. Whether it pushes them to the corner or not, it’s -3 on block so in a lot of cases it getting blocked means Ken would take a Shoryu, an SPD or a throw or maybe a 3 frame jab linked to a combo. Basicly, all that change would do is give him a cheesy chipping tool.
The air tatsu theory of it being a nerf is more logical to assume at this point.
LK tatsu to sweep wasn’t intended to be in the game. It’s a result of tatsu creating a juggle state in which sweeps can be used (see HK air tatsu to sweep). It happens to be something that’s possible from LK on a tight link on certain character hitboxes.
All these bad balances changes, from Super and going forward, are a direct result of Capcom understanding that there are problems with the game, but either don’t understand why those problems exist or are unwilling to fix the real reason such problems exist. The real problem is the engine itself. It is littered with nonsensical design choices that either promote defense or create huge damage from zero effort. Instead of changes the fundamental flaws with the engine, they opted for band aid solutions that water/break the game down even more.
Looking forward to AE, I don’t see the landscape of the game getting better.
HAHAHA what is this Capcom vs SNK 2 now?
I think Akuma was too strong in SFIV vanilla but the nerfs he got in SSFIV are too much.
Infinite (LP>HK) was too strong because Akuma was able to deal a lot of damage without EX bar.
If you check the nerfs list on Akuma, this is pretty huge:
_SRK 190/200 to 150(PV)/200 (stun)
_shakunetsu 150/200 to 99/105
_2HK 110/200 to 90/100
_df grab has more recovery
_hadoken fadc HK is now very difficult to perform, and is no longer possible on “big hitbox”
_RYU and Sagat SRK airborne dosen’t give combo after landing DF kick anymore
I think Akuma is very difficult to make profitable, and unfortunately offensive style is now very dangerous since:
_new ultras 2 are a big trouble for vortex (Rufus/Rose/Fei long/Cammy/Fuerte/Juri by example)
_some dash are REALLY strongs (even if you can Option select of course)
So, you have to take risk, and the reward isn’t so profitable since stun is now “ridiculous” IMO, compare it to Cammy/Ibuki/Chun li can make laugh.
Ultra 2 is a joke actually, even Tokido/infiltration don’t use it because it sucks.
Now I read “walk speed” could be reduced, lol no, stop nerfs on Akuma.
Shoryu fadc U2 could be be nice, except if it justifies some new nerfs…
I prefer getting back an Akuma with a lot of possibilities than playing him like Ryu.