if you got someone in a situation where they’re just mashing out an assist coming off of a block stun (this happens a lot vs cable), jump over them , hold forward and call doom. what happens is, the assist will follow you instead of doom, you need to hold forward to block the assist though. doom comes on your opponents back. and you block cyc/whoever, and got cable in a jam. this works against anyone really but vs cable/sent you find situations to use this more.
ohh ok I get what your saying now. Even if you can get cable to react with an assist. he can still jump jab if the player is anticpating it. Good advice though. Ill definetly steal some of this. Its hard to explain s\d sometimes because of all the variables that can happen while your trying a particular strat.
the old strider style is very linear. Its very easy to read his moves if he gets into set patterns like you said. I’ve been working on some new shit that keeps the opponent guessing yet the option to re-orb is still there. Its working out pretty well. Im starting to notice that im not falling for easy alpha counters any more and my opponets are off balance more. Its easy to slide a free doom chip pattern here and there w\o orbs.
what do you do vs scrub\scrubclops? That fight sucks for sentinel so bad. Im trying to work on doom vs cable\cyke. Like let doom open up the game. He can build meter if you float up to the top of the screen and throw that yellow beam. The thing is when doom does that, that means cable can do the same. Even if you get 3-4 meters doing that and dhc in you just gave cable meter to fight strider. I guess thats better than letting sentinel die for free trying to do the same.
or I just pick s\cable\d and shoot back. This is the 1% of the time where I think you should pick cable instead of sentinel. Strider can kill a whole assist with just one meter here and if you aim for the assist, you can definetly turn this fight around easily.
ssd has no advantages against scrub\scrub clops so why not switch your team up.
I definately understand what you mean, since players are different. I play against a guy who sj throws me out of warps all the time with sentinel , but no one else really does that do me. its something i have to worry about only from that one guy. people are just different so you gotta figure out things that work against your comp.
against sent/cable squads i think maybe picking a character other than sentinel is an option. with ssd i’ve been working on starting strider to use him as his own battery, jumping on the other sent but not wasting much meter to save for cable. I’ve had mixed results, if strider takes a lot of damage vs sent its over.
I would definately go with cable if i could play him well. theres no way he could possibly do worse than sentinel/doom. cable/doom can fight sent/aa and fight the other cable as well.
wow youre being throw after teleports. Thats pretty scary. I have never ever seen that before. have you ever been thrown out of oroborus though? I have a friend who I play that pulls it off once or twice a session. He swears that he knows what he doing but all I hear is him mashing fp. You know that desperate attempt to get out of the trap type of mash.
yea I’ve tried starting strider against cable\sent teams. It just never works out for me. Having strider get rid of 2 charactes on a limited amount of meter is a problem. Im pretty sure I have won this fight with ssd but not many. Thats why I started picking s\cable\d against it. Cable doom works failry well. The team has some bad dynamics but you can work it out.
that assist kill is top secret shit. Gotta keep that hor it myself.
I dont know if you’ve ever seen clock\kai’s version of the 100% death kill but theres dont work all the time. It only works when the opponent doesnt know how to stop it. I used to land it on mixup all the time but he found a way to get around it with all the top tiers.
where do you live at devil? if your close maybe we can setup a session or something.
if you dont know clock\kai’s 100% death assist kill Ill tell you that one but something tells me you already know it.
one more thing: I dont know if you watch vids of kai\clock but they seem to chain into c.rh at the right time to avoid alpha counters. I dont know if they’re using it in the block chain dog re-orb or purposely doing to avoid alphas. you know whats up with that?
Devil X probably knows the assist kill already because I jacked that one from him and just added another round of orbs :P. I’ve actually taken another step further since the last time it was shown and upgraded it to make it even more efficient now.
When it comes to alpha counters, just keep an eye on the life of the point character. You’ll know when he’s thinking of the alpha counter. There are times when I zone out and forget to think about it, but when i remember, I’ll usually try to bait it by blocking when i know my opponent sees a smart time to counter. Most alpha counters I get hit by nowadays are accidental ones in the middle of orbs.
i’m really having a hard time remembering a lot of stuff. i just started playing again like 6 weeks ago. i had to ask clockwork about a lot of things i forgot
i found a pretty good cross up with strider in the corner. i don’t think it works on sentinel though cause i couldnt find any way to land it on his fat ass. if you do a corner combo that ends in rh that hits them on the ground, when you land you can walk through their sprite and combo them on the other side while theyre roll recovering.
like vs cable (corner)
lp,lp,d+fp (launch) (timing, hold back after sj uf) sj.lk, sj.sp, sj.mk, sj. fp, sj.rh . after sj. rh cable goes through some animation where hes recovering, just walk forward to the edge of the screen and hit d+jab, jab, launch. if you do it right strider should now have his back to the corner and crossed up cable. it works on magneto that way too, i think against storm i used d.lk instead of jabs to make it work. couldnt get any cross up on sentinel though.
i agree with kai on the alpha counter, you can feel them coming. i’m just too fucking lazy to figure out a proper way to deal with each counter. i wish mvc2 had a good practice mode, but i think its something i should look into. the best way to deal with cyc/psy/cable counter ins
the thing about alphas that gets me is that strider has to swing to setup trap or keep trap going. He eventually has to swing somewhere to get started.
say I run ssd and im fighting against matrix. sent gets smoked early and strider has like 3 meters to get rolling. Storm is pretty healthy say 70% and sent and clops are both 100%. If i try to come in and swing and go for trap whats stopping her from countering alpha countering early while she has life? Her team is healthy. She has meter for the dhc. Its only s\d left so cyclops can do this by himself for a while if the opp fucks up the dhc. The opp never has to just alpha counter when they’re low on life. I’d do it where they would least expect it.
does the rh otg them and give that bounce or are you doing sj.rh mid air for flying screen into the corner?
i’ve found switch side stuff like that. Sometimes those combos only work on cpu. I’ve had bad luck making up corner shit that only works on cpu. I practice all the time now on manual so my efforts dont become wasted.
i did it on DC practice mode, its the same as if you were doing the combo where you hit them with and air combo in the corner and hit rh as theyre hitting the ground, then otg j.lk for a longer juggle. its set up the exact same way, but instead of hitting them otg, you walk forward, then you start attacking and it comes out on the other side.
what s stopping them from countering in ? well if we could figure out a way to punish cyc that would be nice. also, theyre countering in a character who will have no anti air. a lot of times in these instances i won’t go crazy trying to trap their aa, i use it as an opportunity to build meter, or even bring in doctor doom , since most cycs wont try to fight, they ll just run and try to build for a dhc out. save your meter if they counter in their aa unsuccessfully , and just fight them with assists and rushing in behind dogs/warps/dash jabs. then when they dhc out, they will use up 2 bars and you will have built up a nice chunk of meter to use when you need it.
yea when the AA gets in and strider can handle them I build meter too. its a good strat because if you waste the meter there just going to tag or dhc out. I say if you have meter to spare though, take a good shot at the AA and do some damage. i fthey dhc or tag out they’re bleeding. your next orb could kill that assist if you did enough life. If I’m low on meter I dont try this. Just when I got something to spare.
hmm DD vs cyke gotta remember that. I always get picked off by his qcf beam into kk super. It eats up the dogs so no full screen activate.
like 99% of the time your going to be alpha countered when your going for a string of some sort. They want to land the cyke hit into dhc and do some damage. so why not stay back and chip? say you get weak weak doom fp orb and you manage to trap them. Instead of teleporting and trying to trap, you do repeated ring dog to flood the screen. Call doom while your doing that and it adds up to 20% chip full screen. its not bad. you even build a 25% meter since your throwing all those dogs out and it leaves strider full screen which is pretty good spot for him. strider can throw 5 dogs during a full orb. 7 if you time doom right. each dog is 2 pts plus w\e doom does fullscreen. I think 10? not sure.
now you dont have to be close and risk that alpha counter and get chip still. If you time doom right and can re-orb with the ring dog pattern and ring dog again.
I’m not sure if alpha counters will still work against this because you may be able to alpha off the rings and dhc glitch it. cable may be able to just fly through them and ahvb. gotta test it out but im thinking if you flood the screen right no alpha will stop it.
maybe fullscreen chip patterns are the way to dodge them. I use it when doom is bleeding bad. Call doom early in the ring dog setup and hell get out before orbs are over which leaves him safe if the opp is stuck in the rings. I still get my chip w\o risking doom. Even though its not much its better than going in and risking doom dying.
thats an interesting idea, i’ll see if i could come up with a pattern of rings and dogs that i like :lol: usually when doom is low on life i don’t try to repeat trap, i just call doom and immediately warp to the other side.
yah, doing long chained strings against a blocking opponent has got me in a bit of trouble here and there. i just need to bait them out better. do a dash jab with strider and stop there, and do something else to keep them honest like jump over call assist.
yea you know whats up with doom being hurt. He gets nuked often enough that you have to have a back up strat for when hes hurt.
I used to do that. call orb then immediate doom and teleport so that if an assist comes out itll hit towards strider instead of doom. if the trap isnt tight enough here though the opp can jump backwards and call his assist.
When you throw a dog you can throw rings during striders move animation. If you know how to time the dogs tight, all you have to do is make sure theres a ring series inbetween each dog. Time it like that and it cant be guard cancelled. Its easy to fuck up though and GC spots become apparent.
when you do the dog ring trap you always want to try to open up with a chain call doom activate. Then during ring dog call him again. Thats the chip series that does a good bit for something safe.
works good with sentinel too. say if doom dies and its just stri sent. ring dog behind drones does 15% chip I think. Even though its no doom its better than no chip at all. about 6-7 dogs on this one.
18 blocked dogs = 1 meter
the double doom setup is roughly 8-9 dogs because of the opener dogs. so half meter on a safe trap w\ options to re-orb.
if your using this that means doom is hurt bad. you have nothing to counter with now because your assist hurt. If im in this spot, I end all orb patterns with a short bomb. It gives strider one last option before the opp can do something to him. If you play it right, you dodge for a while with drones and reactivate and ring dog again. You get to force trap even though doom is hurt.
I’ve never played someone that can destory the bomb everytime so I hor that shit.
I’ve seen Eddie Lee use it a lot with his strider and it builds meter very fast, you just gotta remember to use it. Execution problem is sometimes when you lose rhythm you’ll end up with the gay running slash, but to me I think it’s worth learning since strider needs all the meter he can get.
the idea behind the full screen trap is to maximize chip damage from full screen. If you wanted to c.hp dog during orb to chip from full screen go ahead. Youll just have less dogs thats all.
yes the timing is weird because you can always input that running slash on accident. nothing a little practice cant get rid of.
c.rh at the right distance and at the right time is a confirmed way to beat certain alphas. Tested it yesterday myself. c.rh beats capcom, psy, sometimes clops havent figured that one out yet, cable. thnx clock\kai. I really dont know you guys but I always steal shit from your videos.
you have to time c.rh no further than mid sword distance to dodge alphas right. Of course, the further you are the safer you are from the alpha.
so that means msp no longer has cheezy alpha as well as santhrax and ro. I think for cyclops, doing the full screen trap would be the best way to render his assist useless.
the best way to bait alpha IMO, is to constantly do dash jab during orb. After each dash jab immediately hold back if you dont hear a reaction keep doing it till you do. If you dont mixup the dash jab your going to form a rythm. This makes it easier for the opponent to time his alpah. Just get stupid and switch it up whichever way you see fit. as long as it doesnt have a recogizeable rythm to it youll be safe MOST of the time. the jab is 2 frames so that means they have to time there alpha in 2 frames. Thats just tough to do. yes you can still be alpahed if you try this. your just trying to make the alpha counter harder for the opponent.
if you cant stop the alpha, you might as well make it as hard as possible for them to do it.
I also experiment with full screen trap yesterday and no character can alpha dhc glitch it. Its prefectly safe. but as i said before, if you dont time it right, they can guard cancel it.
when people are stuck in orbs, they usually try to do a few things. option 1 is they start push blocking. they’re trying to escape through guard cancelling or getting an assist out. if theyre doing this, you know they’re NOT trying to alpha counter, so you don’t really have to worry about it in these situations and should just concern yourself with locking them down.
now if someone is just sitting put while you’re up on them in orbs, now you know they’re trying to alpha counter or maybe they’re retarded and just sitting there thinking you can’t put a 100 percent lock down on them (i love when someone does that ). either way, stop sticking out limbs when you see this. since they’re not pushing you away, this is a perfect time to go for mixs up with jump lk, qck+lk. if you’re trying to trap, do a trap where you jump over them and call doom and sandwich them, or call doom and warp to another side. now even if they alpha counter doom should be on the other side to prevent any serious damage to strider, and leave their assist in the game.
hmm we covered quite a few ways to avoid alpha. If your a beginner and your reading this, take what you can from this. These tips are coming from people who have been playing s\d for years.
I wish clock would post his 2 cents on this.
one more thing about alphas.
instead of countering them, hurt the assist thats giving you a problem. Run around and attack for a while and get some meter with sent. 3 or so. Bait your doom and try to make them retaliate with their assist thats giving you problems. Personally, I go for the assist that makes the team work well. You dont have to bait doom, you just want that particular assist to come out. If you can do it another way w\o baiting doom, I suggest that over the one I mentioned.
when you see that assist on the screen, low spit hsf quick dhc into strider off the first set of hsf. Then teleport and grab the assist. Do your damage here and make it count. Aim for 100% kill but if you cant do that, do no less than 70%. You want the assist to be hurt so bad that alpha countering will cause that assist to lose that life. They’ll think twice about it.
say you do 50% on cyclops, and strider has about 50% life left. The opponent will think about alpha dhc here because it will kill strider. You want to hurt the assist as bad as possible w\o strider getting hurt. Theyll be less likely to use that assist and you can go for your hit during orb and snap.
this works great when sentinel does some life on the first point character and strider bashes the assist. Theyll have 2 hurt characters and will have to fight more effeciently rather than countering doom all day. This lets strider fight the 2nd point character w\o having to worry about alpha as much.
You may fight someone crazy though and he will alpha when cyclops has 15% life simply because its the last thing you would expect. MOST people wont.
were not talking about cable vs strider. were taking about avoiding alphas. and some cable teams can throw assist into ahvb if you stand there too long.
I’ve read over this page and I honestly cant think of anything else to add.
Yeah there are only certain instances where they can alpha counter you and really mess up everything.
Teleporting
Mashing LP
That’s the only things I can think of.
I just try to hit them as much as possible (j. forward lk, teleport -> land c. lk etc.), I don’t trap because I just send birds and tigers in. It’s not easy getting through birds and tigers if you got a good grasp on how they’ll move.
Then again I play Strider/Tron, and Tron provides a quick offensive cover right in front of Strider… so Birds all day then orbs lol
when I posted I was just referring to the cable part of this thread lol
edit 2:
okay so I read more about what people were saying…
to sum it all up in a few sentences
Bait assist, fuck him up afterwards
Mentally break them and try to understand what type of player so you can continue orbs or wait for the alpha
Full screen trap that shit w/ birds/dogs/doom assist
c. hk owns alphas but hard to time?
Man seriously, I’m thinking of just throwing qcf KK when shit gets rough lol
back, forward + lk bomb hurts when Mag dashs the fuck in with c. lk, c. lk, psy assist
I don’t ever whore out the bomb anymore, it’s too slow.
I like tigers and birds the best unless I see Mag super jumping too high
If you guys want to try a trick, near the middle of orbs, wave dash forward and back. They’ll super jump I’m sure and get the fuck out of there, but it gives you plenty of time to build up meter and throw birds and what not.
I don’t know why people think Strider is all about trapping. It’s ok but man… Strider is better than that
you don’t really wanna throw bombs against mag until you get him dashing in at a higher angle than he usually comes in at . like a4 said you do this by making him go around birds/drones/jump jabs. eventually magneto has to take a higher angle to come in around all the shit and then you can use the old school ww2 bombs to drop on his ass :wasted:
well walking in on a decent cable isn’t going to always work. he can tk jab viper beam +assist or whatever to take ground control. gun shots are also something strider can’t just walk through. he may not be able to land combos on strider easily but random hits , random assist hits and chip damage are usually enough to dent strider who has shitty health. all the while hes building meter to kill off you or your assist. it aintzzzzzz that easy against cable. you gotta have a plan against someone who is good at killing strider.
I throw short bomb against mag whenever I get a chance. It has to be purely safe though. If mag comes close he has to deal with it. If he dashes over it, free teleport other side. If he tries to get his assist to take it out, I try to hog up the bomb area with my block sprite and call doom. Strider will take the block and bomb hits for free. Doom is my insurance plan just in case the bomb does get taken out. Doesnt work against capcom but will against most of the other AA’s.
something risky that works: if magneto gets around the bomb and you know what hes going to attack with, block it and push block him into the bomb. Guard cancel after that and harass with animals\drones. Sucks for magnus. Works good on assist too.
It gives strider a little bit more time to setup his next pattern. Usually once the bombs gone most magnetos will try to attack. This is striders chance to counter because you get to throw the first move and counter. I dont recomend throwing a bomb against magnus when he has 2 meters. Quick dhc on strider for an easy hit.
some of the time If I have to burn a meter to save strider, Ill end that orb pattern with a short bomb and stay with it and harass with animals and drones then judge my next move from there. I just do it to keep the opponent on their toes. If you keep on trying to orb everytime, your going to run into something eventually.
usually if you try the long bomb on storm, she can hail and get away from it. If you throw the bomb and she dhc’s in, the bomb will hit her if its positioned right. You just have to make sure the bomb traveled full screen instead of half screen.
). either way, stop sticking out limbs when you see this. since they’re not pushing you away, this is a perfect time to go for mixs up with jump lk, qck+lk. if you’re trying to trap, do a trap where you jump over them and call doom and sandwich them, or call doom and warp to another side. now even if they alpha counter doom should be on the other side to prevent any serious damage to strider, and leave their assist in the game.