Okay, I’ve re-recoreded the errors you’ve found again, but this time against Cody.
Knife s.lp => 0 on block. (-1 on Paul)
Knife c.lp => -2 on block (-3 on Paul)
c.lp => +1 (0 on Paul)
LP Bad Stone => +5 on Block (+4 on Paul) [it’s +9 on hit btw]
MP Bad Stone => +3 on Block (+2 on Paul)
HP Bad Stone => +1 on Block (0 on Paul)
EX Bad Stone => +8 on Block (+7 on Paul)
It seems I will have to redo ALL WORK AGAIN, at least on block, since it seems it doesn’t affect hit stun.
@Knife c.hp. It’s +6 video wise, but you can indeed combo 7F moves afterwards (Knife s.mp when you have the dummy walking forward into you in the corner). WTF IS GOING ON WITH THE GAME?
Edit: I just comboed his 9F Cross Art after LP Bad Stone, however, when I recorded LP Bad Stone AGAIN, it’s +8 frame wise suddenly?! O_O
There is one more thing interesting about that Knife cr.HP. This is the one that led me to think that 1hit-jump might not be completely reliable.
If you record the dummy with Knife cr.HP -> Knife cr.MP (make sure it combos), change the option to Replay then block dummy’s Knife cr.HP, Knife cr.MP CHs moves with 7f start-up and trades with ones with 6f start-up if you do it frame perfect.
Now, if you record the dummy with Knife cr.HP -> whiff normal jump -> Knife cr.MP on land sequence, put it on Replay, block Knife cr.HP then whiff normal jump, Knife cr.MP trades with moves with 7f start-up if you do it upon landing.
Of course, the characters’ jump frames is the same, so there’s no frame difference made with the jump.
Then again, I myself posted an idea before since this would be a somewhat reasonable way to explain the situation:
This never happens to normals (I consider stance normals and knife normals as “unique attacks”), but sometimes happens to command normals and specials.
I actually came to the same conclusion. It would seem odd that it has different hitstuns, so I’d also say it’s rather a recovery thing and specific to knife c.hp. Since it seems seems Lei has the same ability, I’d say THAT case is closed. In 1.06, how is the start up of knife s.mp, and hit adv of knife c.hp, since that was one of his Knife bnbs.
I’m currently recording f.mp against the whole cast to see if there is another one like Paul. Took a break just now to rant about the new character limit of posts tho.
Also 2, do you want to add your Lei data onto the online wiki? I’m sacred shitless when I see how many moves he has.
Yeah, I can confirm this annoying feature in SFxT. I found this problem when the game was first released and I was trying to confirm frame data from the strategy guide.
From what I tested, Cody’s frame data in 1.06 was the same with Knife st.MP, cr.MP and cr.HP. Knife cr.HP +6 on hit, Knife st.MP, Knife cr.MP, cr.MK, cr.HK all being 7f start-up and those 4 linkable after Knife cr.HP hit.
About Lei data, if I’m reliable enough, sure
We can copy/paste any time we want so I’ll concentrate on testing other characters for now.
I found that too in vanilla. I have not been able to see what causes this either tho.
80% sure for now is better than nothing. You can write that it’s a work in progress or something. And I would have all the moves I have to check, including correct damage values, hit level, notes etc already - so that would save a lot of time when I go over all of them again.
I’m finished with half the cast for Cody’s f.mp - it’s +1 against all so far.
I just finished testing Cody. I did not test jump normals (I trust you on this), and aside from those ‘1 additional frame’ moves, it seems to be fine. I’ll move onto Blanka next.
BTW, Knife Throw -> Cross Art is a true blockstring. I’m not sure whether the last frame of Knife Throw is cancellable or it is +9 on block. Oh and when I was mentioning “Lei one”, I was talking about the last frame cancellability, not the frame data. I’ll move and organize Lei’s frame data tmrw or something.
I only check the start up on jump normals, since they seem to be universal I copy and paste the advantage. All characters seem to have the same hit/block stun for each strength, at least when looking through the data. It doesn’t matter much anyway imo.
If knife throw has the same ability, Bad Stone might have it as well, since I can combo his CA after LP stone sometimes. (from close range)
Ah, than it’s even more awesome! edit:<= WTF IS THAT FUGLY THING?! O_O
Send me a request at the online doc (and pm me your email so I know it’s you).
6HK = 4JP according to the way you are counting JP. (Technically all of your stuff is 1JP higher than it should be for how the game counts JP because I think you are counting moves you can hit a floating opponent twice with as 2JP when actually it should be 1JP since they start at 0JP. Then first hit moves it to 1Juggle count, then 2nd hit still connects moving it to 2juggle count which means that only moves with 2JP or more can hit.) It’s a matter of semantics and your end result is correct, just a technicality really.
Well, I had to think about how to numeralize juggle potential, then I just decided to follow Brady Guide’s way of doing it (it considers Jin’s cr.MP to have JP of 3 and cr.HP to have JP of 4).
Hey - if you need help building out Elena’s data, I’d be happy to help. I have some basic knowledge from the log notes and wouldn’t mind learning how to get more specific information.
Are you sure about Elec? I’ve tested it again and again in various circumstances (jump => elec, df.hp (block) => elec, c.lp xx elec, cl.hp xx elec, coward crouch xx elec, hop => elec) and it was always 7,9,12,6.
Same for Rolling Attack, Frame 6 and 7 look identical (and he even stays in place “within cody”, but the hit doesn’t occur until the 7th frame counting from the input. EX 8th frame.
The fastest I could get Rock Crusher is 6F from input to hit frame.
I did normal whiff jump LP elec. It trades with Blanka’s normal whiff jump cr.HK in point blank range, and gets hit out in a range pretty far. However, cr.HK does not CH LP elect even if it is far away, suggesting that the move is already active by the time I connect with cr.HK.
I had to test MP elec and HP elec with Ryu and Lei, with subtracting Blanka’s faster jump frames (subtract 2f with Ryu, subtract 1f with Lei).
EX elec was again done with Blanka. CHs Blanka’s cr.HK. I cannot remember which move I traded with, but it was probably cr.MK
As for Horizontal Roll, I did a similar thing (point blank) with dummy doing back jump roll in the corner, and always traded with Blanka’s normal whiff jump close st.MP. However, EX Roll got countered out by close st.MP.
I did the same thing for Rock Crusher, and traded with close st.LP no matter how many times I tried, so I assumed it’s 4f start-up.
I’ll try to test it again tonight to make sure.
Off topic, but EX charge -> EX chargeable move does not CH, something that is not exclusive to Paul. (eg. Sagat’s Tiger Knee EX charge -> EX Tiger Knee does not CH, but other EX moves do) I’m not sure whether this was intentional or not.
You’re right lol. Never noticed (nor tried, nor seen).
I’d appreciate if you would test that again, maybe with another of your methods, since elec is rather easy to trade with and we don’t know if it has some form of invincibility or something.
I’m pretty sure it has no invincibility, otherwise he wouldn’t get countered out by Blanka’s cr.MK with the jump-hit method. Anyways I’ll test it in a minute.
First, I did whiff normal jump LP Electric. Gets countered by Blanka’s whiff normal jump cr.MK, trades with whiff normal jump close st.MP, and counters whiff normal jump cr.MP.
Next, I did far st.LK hit (-1), whiff normal jump -> LP Electric with the dummy. Trades with Blanka’s whiff normal jump cr.MP when the dummy is at -1.
I’m convinced that LP Electric has 6f start-up, but the horizontal range is so small at the 1st active frame that you might not be able to hit someone who’s not poking at you. Same goes with MP Electric (trades with cr.HP on just jump -> MP Electric) and HP Electric (trades with cr.HP on far st.LP hit (+3) -> whiff normal jump -> HP Electric).
About EX Electric, I am confused now. I’m sure I was able to trade yesterday, but I just get hit out now. Invincibility is kicking in somewhere cuz I wasn’t able to hit it out with anything just now. I cannot make a sure argument about this using the dummy jump method, but I can try another one; you can link CH cr.LK into EX Electric, and cr.LK is +5 on CH (can link up to cr.MK)
I am actually going to have to say the same thing about Roll. I did the above 2 ways, and at the 1st hit it trades with close st.MP, while at the 2nd hit it trades with far st.MP and cr.MP. From further testing, I think it can basically be said that the opponent in the front will get hit at the 7th frame unless they extend their hurtbox past Blanka, similar to LP/MP Electric.
About Rock Crusher, I fluctuated between 4f~7f (lol), then I realized that if you just do it from the ground, it indeed is 6f. However, it works really weird that if you do it straight from the jump, you sometimes get the 4f version, or get the full charge version without holding MP. My apologies for the confusion. I think it is safe to say that it’s 6f start-up.
Go ahead and adjust the Roll and Elec then. No wonder I can’t reproduce it, if he has a hitbox “within him” first. I did “walk into” blanka with the dummy for both attacks, but didn’t hit him.
I’m sacred shitless when I see how many moves he has.
edit:<= WTF IS THAT FUGLY THING?! O_O
