He’s talking about the casual playerbase which makes up the majority of the sales. The game must appeal to them or it will fail, simple as that. SF3 was a failure, financially. That is what he is speaking of, not the quality of the game. It essentially killed off the street fighter series for a long time. That is why it is unlikely Capcom takes the risk of releasing a new SF without at least several WW veterans.

If you ask people who don’t play fighting games, most of them know many of the original WW. They probably couldn’t list even one character from SF3 or even alpha. It is like MK…what if there was no sub zero, scorpion, lui kang, etc? Tekken without Jin? Guilty gear without ky/sol? Regardless of personal opinion, these characters are iconic and therefore are a huge factor in drawing many people who won’t care otherwise.

Experts are divided on what the best SF is of all time. There are many who don’t like the parry mechanic and weakness of projectiles/zoning in the game.

1- Gameplay. Even taking your statement as true and universally accepted, gameplay.
That and video of Daigo parrying the shit out of Wong in the most legendary round and comeback of the FG history

2- People often talk about want new shit and end up ask to remove someone else nostalgia and replace it with theyr own nostalgia.
This is’nt want “change” or “new”, this is childish “but… SF2 fans had theyr turn in SF4 now we want another blowjob too!”

2009, a SF3 Taliban read the Vanilla final cast

I say, ok kill SF2s… give me new faces
You say kill SF2s cuz muh 1998 SF3s need to shine!

Who is that don’t welcome “new”? LOL

SF2 characters had theryr moment to shine… in SF2
SF3 characters had theryr moment to shine… in SF3
Then in SF4 WWs are returned because audience asked for them, simple as that

Again, i said there is no problem if X o Y or both are cut, just give me a SF with a core design that respect SF
Wich is something that SF2,SFA,SFEX and SF4 did

I agree with Maxman on SFA
SFA did great at bring in a new wave of characters (and awesome restyle of some SF1ers)
But SFA respected SF core design, and added to that gradually reintroduced a lot of SF2ers (all of them in SFA3)

SF3 “betrayed” partially the core design of SF and refused totally to help itself reintroducing some classics(aside ChunLi and demonshoto) to recover some SF vibe

They done all was in theyr power to have a division with previous SFs, and as result they obtained to alienate the audience and win one more nail on theyr coffin, in an already not easy situation

Again watch SF history
Is not SF4 to be a whore, SF4 just keep SF tradition
SF3 is the different one
And ironically SF2 heavy influence on SF4 is the direct result of SF3 failed revolution

And lol at thanking God for me not being Ono
Like if Street “infamous whore” Fighter 4 is’nt the greatest achievement of his professional life :smiley:

I can’t deny part of the “failure” of SF3 at least when it first came out, it gained quite a life since then, was the fact the only SF2 chars were Ryu and Ken originally whom almost weren’t included at all from what I’ve read. However you can’t really separate that from the fact that arcades in USA/Europe were clearly on their way out and dying fast. SF3 did decently well in Japan is my understanding, not like crazy well considering it was a new SF game and also a HUGE step up graphically from the previous, but decently well in arcades is my understanding (correct me if I’m wrong on that.)

There is simply no way though to really know which was a biggest issue, the near death of arcades in USA/Europe, the new cast, or just how completely different the game functioned thanks to parries.

Wait, who the hell said 3s is the best SF of all time?

Several factors contributed to SF3’s commercial failure but the lack of SF2 characters is definitely in the top 3. Capcom could’ve solved this actually by adding 4-6 classic characters (that were not shotos) during the games lifespan (or 4th/Final Assault?) but they were stubborn, which ultimately backfired.

Yeah I agree, Ionly listed 3 as being the main things tbh I can’t think of any others worth listing. The issue of course being you can’t really say which was the biggest. Adjusting any one of them in a bubble would of course have had positive results. Adding more OG characters would probably have been the most simple one to adjust of course.

he did

I’d say it is easily #1. MvC1 and later MvC2 were still very popular in arcades. Alpha 3 was way more popular cause it had a larger cast including many familiar faces. SF3 was drowned out by other Capcom fighters. You could play as many of your favorite iconic characters in SFA3, or many of the legendary Marvel characters in the VS games, or you could play as strange unfamiliar characters in SF3. The choice for most was easy.

On 3s that Daigo moment somehow got a ton of people in the west into the game. Most 3s players aren’t from the time 3s came out, but from a younger generation.

I like SF3 over SF2 any day, screw you people. O_O I think if SF3 were to have launched with the same cast as Third Strike, better yet, if SF 3rd strike was the ORIGINAL SF3, and SF3/second impact didn’t exist, I think SF3 would have been 10x more popular. The cast sucks so much in vanilla SF3, and 3rd strike’s sound track/menu’s (character select screen cough*) were even better too. I think the problem is, that everyone wants the same shit over and over, and as much as they say they don’t, even TV producers know this, hence all the cliches. That’s right you dogs, chew on those doggy bones, though the flavor gets dull, you can’t resist. :slight_smile:

Most of the SF3 favorites are from NG. The twins, Dudley, Ibuki, Alex, Elena, etc Since then only Makoto and maybe Urien were popular original characters that were added.

Real talk, people praise New generation designs but most of them are really weak.

Gill’s coloured body is goofyness incarnate (but his voice was badass)

Necro is an OK freak, incorporates successfully assets from 2 past characters really well. And i find him and his interactions with Effie hilarious.

Oro was well done, looks like an old hermit who dedicated his life to the way of the fist and now longs for a worthy sucessor to his style, although he goes a bit too far in the weird side of things, the man with tremendous power that limits himself is not that new to the series too.

Sean is an oddball, i simply do not understand his origins, he is a brazilian shoto with and american name, has a japanese grandfather and plays basketball. To be fair, the most likely place in the world for such an odd combination to happen would be in Brazil (biggest japanese population outside of Japan, lots of racial diversity, etc.) but it still feels like they just threw a bunch of concepts together and Sean was born. Sean is a widely unexplored character and if they bring him back there are a lot of possibilities to evolve the character they could choose to go for, from becoming a rival to Sakura (If Capcom cannot get that Karin copyright) and build a Ryu-Ken rivalry in the next generation… to making him weaker than Dan for their own sadistic pleasure;the 3S nerfs were pure violence, i don’t like to talk about it. (and it made most people that just played 3S think Sean is a semi-joke character).

Yun - Yang were quite unique as far as twins in videogames go, i’ll give them that, and they play different enough that i feel they deserve their spot, although Yang always gets the short end of the stick (also, Genei Jin and Seiei Enbu were a great way to explore the custom combo mechanic) .

Alex, Dudley, Ibuki and Elena were great additions with their fair share of original content.

As for 3rd Strike characters:

Remy is basically Iori Yagami with Guile’s moves and a weird kick, but without everything that makes Iori cool (the laugh, murder screams and purple flames), even the Omega on his shirt looks like a reference to the crescent moon Iori has on his back; his only redeeming qualities are story-wise, because of his moves he could have some interesting interactions with other characters, with the speculation of him being Charlie’s or Abel’s son, etc.

Everybody loves Q, but no one can deny that the people at Capcom must’ve invested five minutes of thought to create his concept.

Makoto is a good character, the fact that they dropped the original concept of her being Ryu’s younger sister shows they aimed to create an original character instead of retconning new characters into existence.

Urien (From Second Impact) was a very well built character, aside from the diapers. And no matter how i look at it, his metallic projectile looks like something out of Megaman X4’s Cyber Peacock stage to me.

Twelve is a Darkstalkers character through and through; and compared to 95% of the characters of that series he would still be an extremely lazy design, and Capcom even repeated this history of laziness with Seth aka Fifteen in SFIV (another “Marionette want to be a real boy” story)

And on the other hand, remove any character from Street Fighter 2 and add them to 3S and you suddenly have a “perfectly, well built character”, and Blanka was always their favorite Street Fighter character anyway.

This article pretty explain what really happen in the '90.

I’ve lived those days. When SF3 NG comes out NOBODY was happy about the cast: why do that when 2X was just 3yrs old, Alpha and EX comes out and many 3d games take a big spot? At the time fighting games was everywhere and SF3 was simply too"forward" at the time. His best release (3s) was financially unlucky due to the Arcades death in EU/US and because the at the time best console can’t sustain the game. I didn’t played 3s myself until 05/06, because here in Italy the best SF game on PS2 was Zero 3(still my favorite). What SF3 in general didn’t get at the time he gets later, that’s why it’s still played a lot in Japan. Technically requires still more skill than SF4, who thinks parry system kills the zoning simply didn’t have play the game. Parrying was made for maintaining pressure,not for deflects fireballs. Plus,do that can leave you open for the incoming hit of your opponent,but that’s is another story. Now the FGC it’s more bigger thanks to internet so people can get every info they wants. In all honesty I will please way much another SF Alpha with all the WW inside than a SFV, just for gameplay matter. I’m ok if my historical main Bison gets in with some or recycled moves, but including all the cast leads only to a SF4.5, that’s my opinion. Why put (example) a Dhalsim in if the game engine don’t help him? We all see what happen in SF4,mid/low forever. Change him too much in the name of balance can lead to make Sim another character entirely. Then why don’t put someone more well made for the incoming new game?

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve started playing SF with CE and I’m back to SF4 right because of the WW cast, but I’m open to other characters to take AT LEAST the spots of 3/4 of them.

There’s no a general SF core design outside 2 puppets fighting each other. How much SF2 respects the SF1 cast? What make SF a success was the gameplay, the fighting games in the early '90 aren’t not even close. What Capcom did with SF2 was INNOVATING, players all around the world were ready for that. Makes SF3 during mid '90 was the real failure,because people are still enjoying 2X and all the clones who comes after SF2, like KOF. There’s no sense in making SF3 with the old cast, since they was still in 2X, in the newborn Alpha and later with the EX series. Capcom kill herself with that move. Makes SF3 ng/2nd Impact for arcades only and 3s for the “dead man walking” Dreamcast give almost a killing blow to the franchise. The Arcades and the renovated gameplay of 3s saves all, without knowing that Capcom did a real good job.

The gameplay was fundamental, not the characters.

Ryu,Chun,Akuma and Ken. 4 classic in 3s. The game is still played even now. How many players gonna keep playing 4 when 5 comes out?

I’m not gonna hate on the SF3 cast. In time I grew to appreciate most of them and I understand that they are victims in all this. Within the context of the SF3 universe they all were consistent in their design and fit in together well somehow. In retrospect none of the freakiness SF3 introduced is that freaky anymore and IMO it is still very much Street Fighter. I would go as far as saying that SF3’s characters in some respects were ahead of their time. Actually who am I kidding, SF3 is fucking brilliant as a fighting game. It was only a commercial failure and a bad follow-up to SF2 which was MEGA successful. No matter what SF3 did, the truth is it was never gonna match SF2’s numbers. Capcom gambled and lost. Brave or stupid, it doesn’t matter. Everything is fine now and that’s all that matters.

Personally my only problem with SF3 was parries and a painful lack of SF2 characters that for years made me snub the game. I really think characters like Guile, Cammy, Vega, Sagat, and Bison could’ve found a place in some form in the game. Hell they could’ve even added some alpha and SF1 characters.

This is why I’m excited about SFV more than SF4, it feels like I am getting SF3 but with my favorite characters from SF2/SFA along with the best of SF3 possibly.

Ryu, Chun Li, and 2 clones. No one is saying 3S is a bad game. But it is a bad sequel to SF2, its timing was poor, and its marketing was handled poorly as well.

And we’ll find out in a few years.

No one remember NG since was a very big failure. When we talking about SF3 is the last chapter who people recognize the most. And there Yang was playable.

Ken and Gouki are similar to Ryu, but are different. Nobody at the time consider SF3 a real sequel almost an alternative universe especially for the cast. No reason to play it since Alpha was a better game and a real believable sequel (even if he was a prequel).

To be fair, I think a lot of the SF2 roster would have been ass in a parry system. In SF3, zoning in general was weak unless you had a strong normal (preferably cr.MK) that could confirm into super.
-Guile’s zoning and single-hit pokes would be worthless
-Remember how badly Focus hurt Dhalsim in SF4? Imagine him vs a focus with little to no commitment that leads into full combos.
-Parrying Blanka balls lel. He would have been screwed.
-Gief would have been alright. Parry xx SPD would be sick.
-Honda would have also worked, but I’m skeptical about how Headbutt and butt smash would have fit in SF3
-Idk if T.Hawk would have worked; I must admit, the idea of air parry xx Condor Dive sounds sexy though
-Cammy’s cr.MK would have been solid, but we don’t know if we would get SF2 Cammy damage/options (ass) or SF4 Cammy damage/options (not ass)
-Fei can’t play safe with single-hit pokes and rekkas. NEXT
-Dee Jay? hahahahahahaha
-Boxer is too limited and slow compared to the rest of the SF3 roster. We already saw how Q turned out.
-Claw might work, but I’m not sure if he could survive vs 3S Yun and Makoto
-After Remy, I don’t have any faith in Sagat for 3S
-Not sure what to say about Bison. Are we talking Alpha/SFV, or SF2/SF4? Too many variables to think about.

Capcom think before at the game system and after at the characters to put in there. The SF3 characters looking that different in gameplay because their gameplan is devoted at their game system/mechanic. The only way to implement the WW there would be change them a lot or creating new characters. We all know what Capcom did.

It started from a very good and SFish idea, make an Helio Gracie tribute

http://www.graciemiami.com/Materiais/182/785.jpg

Then they gone full wierdo SF3 style (but whatever, still like Oro) and turned him into the red eyes demon cousin of the yellow bastard

http://images.moviefanatic.com/iu/t_full/v1364991038/yellow-bastard-shirtless.jpg

Alpha 3 (which came out at around the same time as NG) doesn’t even play like a street fighter game for most of the time.


V-ISM plus cc infinites make the game feel like you’re getting hit with MvC3 TAC infinites for most of the time.