Street Fighter V Balance/Match Up Discussion - SHOW ME YOUR MATCH UPS

[Zeniside]

Her mix-up in the corner is almost GG as Bison. Having no reversal is tough against it. lol

[Komatik]

Oh, come on. Did it take 6 months of Vanilla SF4 play to realize Sagat and Akuma were better than average? Or an equal amount of time to discover AE Yun was more than just good tools? I wasn’t around these forums then, but I would find hard to believe people could keep an straight face while saying it was not valid to dismiss Dee Jay because maybe some super secret tech would be discovered soon…

I spent most of SF4 telling SRK that Deejay was actually not good and getting told I was wrong.

But slide is god.

[CaesarVII]

What do you think about Bison VS Laura guys ?

[Muttonman]

This may have already been covered but Mika is seriously giving me flashbacks to 3rd strike Makoto. When she has you in the corner, you’re left with some hard decisions. A couple of wrong guesses and the match is over. You know the grab is coming but if she catches you jumping you’re eating a nasty combo.

Like Makoto, I wouldn’t be surprised if she is hard to rank given that her matches are unpredictable.

At this point mika seems to have the most powerful 50/50 in the game, and it loops back into itself on hit.

I’d say Laura’s is stronger due to not needing VTrigger to pull off the left/right aspect and having an overhead that you can combo out of on meaty hit.

[Daemos]

What do you think about Bison VS Laura guys ?

I don’t wanna talk about it. :sad:

[Dime]

This may have already been covered but Mika is seriously giving me flashbacks to 3rd strike Makoto. When she has you in the corner, you’re left with some hard decisions. A couple of wrong guesses and the match is over. You know the grab is coming but if she catches you jumping you’re eating a nasty combo.

Like Makoto, I wouldn’t be surprised if she is hard to rank given that her matches are unpredictable.

At this point mika seems to have the most powerful 50/50 in the game, and it loops back into itself on hit.

I’d say Laura’s is stronger due to not needing VTrigger to pull off the left/right aspect and having an overhead that you can combo out of on meaty hit.

I disagree, here’s why:

1. I see way more mikas vortexing people to death.
2. Mikas anti jump is confirmable and needs no meter and is plus on block
3. Laura anti jump takes meter, and is plus on block as well… But it takes meter… Once again, that’s pretty huge
4. Mika has the better throw/strike 50/50 and CAN get a left/right as well. Laura has the stronger left/right but needs meter to really enforce the throw/strike. Also, Laura can’t do her left/right without meter. Basically without meter Laura’s mixup game is very bad.
5. Laura has way less advantage off of command grabs than mika does

Laura’s scary no doubt, but looking at her meter can kinda inform you of her options or lack thereof. Not so true against mika. I’d also argue that mika has WAY better neutral, but I digress.

[Muttonman]

This may have already been covered but Mika is seriously giving me flashbacks to 3rd strike Makoto. When she has you in the corner, you’re left with some hard decisions. A couple of wrong guesses and the match is over. You know the grab is coming but if she catches you jumping you’re eating a nasty combo.

Like Makoto, I wouldn’t be surprised if she is hard to rank given that her matches are unpredictable.

At this point mika seems to have the most powerful 50/50 in the game, and it loops back into itself on hit.

I’d say Laura’s is stronger due to not needing VTrigger to pull off the left/right aspect and having an overhead that you can combo out of on meaty hit.

I disagree, here’s why:

1. I see way more mikas vortexing people to death.
2. Mikas anti jump is confirmable and needs no meter and is plus on block
3. Laura anti jump takes meter, and is plus on block as well… But it takes meter… Once again, that’s pretty huge
4. Mika has the better throw/strike 50/50 and CAN get a left/right as well. Laura has the stronger left/right but needs meter to really enforce the throw/strike. Also, Laura can’t do her left/right without meter. Basically without meter Laura’s mixup game is very bad.
5. Laura has way less advantage off of command grabs than mika does

Laura’s scary no doubt, but looking at her meter can kinda inform you of her options or lack thereof. Not so true against mika. I’d also argue that mika has WAY better neutral, but I digress.

Laura gets her confirm on anti-jump as you hit them meaty after a reset. Mika also doesn’t get the left-right without blowing V Trigger I believe and has no overhead. I agree that she needs meter to get the reset game going but otherwise you get better mixups on non-resets due to getting a throw knockdown where they can’t backroll. She also gets enough advantage off her command grab to run a mixup game even if it’s not quite as good as Brimstone.

Basically I think Laura’s oki game is scarier, but she has a much harder time getting it started. The one big thing I’d give to Mika is light light EX Typhoon

[DevilJin_01]

Lets discuss Alex matchups. He will have more grab range than Laura so he beats Laura

[Cereal_and_Milk]

Bison vs Mika = 3 - 7?

[Dime]

This may have already been covered but Mika is seriously giving me flashbacks to 3rd strike Makoto. When she has you in the corner, you’re left with some hard decisions. A couple of wrong guesses and the match is over. You know the grab is coming but if she catches you jumping you’re eating a nasty combo.

Like Makoto, I wouldn’t be surprised if she is hard to rank given that her matches are unpredictable.

At this point mika seems to have the most powerful 50/50 in the game, and it loops back into itself on hit.

I’d say Laura’s is stronger due to not needing VTrigger to pull off the left/right aspect and having an overhead that you can combo out of on meaty hit.

I disagree, here’s why:

1. I see way more mikas vortexing people to death.
2. Mikas anti jump is confirmable and needs no meter and is plus on block
3. Laura anti jump takes meter, and is plus on block as well… But it takes meter… Once again, that’s pretty huge
4. Mika has the better throw/strike 50/50 and CAN get a left/right as well. Laura has the stronger left/right but needs meter to really enforce the throw/strike. Also, Laura can’t do her left/right without meter. Basically without meter Laura’s mixup game is very bad.
5. Laura has way less advantage off of command grabs than mika does

Laura’s scary no doubt, but looking at her meter can kinda inform you of her options or lack thereof. Not so true against mika. I’d also argue that mika has WAY better neutral, but I digress.

Laura gets her confirm on anti-jump as you hit them meaty after a reset.

With what exactly? The only thing I know of is whatever into ex fireball.

The only confirms Laura has are counter hit or the 2 hit confirms she gets from her light attacks. Which aren’t the greates jump confirms.

I’ve played her and it’s pretty damn hard to keep people from jumping out of her offense in pokestrings. The only real way I know how to with a confirm is st.mp xx ex fireball.

Going into L shoulder isn’t a confirm from most things and on block it just gets Laura pressured.

Playing against a decent amount of Laura’s and mikas and mikas just blow me up way harder than Laura’s tend to.

-edit, also I don’t consider Laura’s overhead a good option. On block it’s -7 and you WILL get taken for a ride as people learn the matchup. And people have a much bigger willingness to block high against her when outside her cr.mk range. As the game goes on that overhead will be used less and less. You won’t want to lose 400hp just cause you were doing g an overhead.

I honestly think the way Laura might end up being played is kinda like fei long:

Rekka to hit the opponent as they are walking forward, only for Laura the rekka will be her shoulder charge.

Maybe, though it might just be to slow at 13 frames to be able to use that way. Laura resembles fei in some ways to me. Like Abel meets fei or something.

[Muttonman]

This may have already been covered but Mika is seriously giving me flashbacks to 3rd strike Makoto. When she has you in the corner, you’re left with some hard decisions. A couple of wrong guesses and the match is over. You know the grab is coming but if she catches you jumping you’re eating a nasty combo.

Like Makoto, I wouldn’t be surprised if she is hard to rank given that her matches are unpredictable.

At this point mika seems to have the most powerful 50/50 in the game, and it loops back into itself on hit.

I’d say Laura’s is stronger due to not needing VTrigger to pull off the left/right aspect and having an overhead that you can combo out of on meaty hit.

I disagree, here’s why:

1. I see way more mikas vortexing people to death.
2. Mikas anti jump is confirmable and needs no meter and is plus on block
3. Laura anti jump takes meter, and is plus on block as well… But it takes meter… Once again, that’s pretty huge
4. Mika has the better throw/strike 50/50 and CAN get a left/right as well. Laura has the stronger left/right but needs meter to really enforce the throw/strike. Also, Laura can’t do her left/right without meter. Basically without meter Laura’s mixup game is very bad.
5. Laura has way less advantage off of command grabs than mika does

Laura’s scary no doubt, but looking at her meter can kinda inform you of her options or lack thereof. Not so true against mika. I’d also argue that mika has WAY better neutral, but I digress.

Laura gets her confirm on anti-jump as you hit them meaty after a reset.

With what exactly? The only thing I know of is whatever into ex fireball.

The only confirms Laura has are counter hit or the 2 hit confirms she gets from her light attacks. Which aren’t the greates jump confirms.

I’ve played her and it’s pretty damn hard to keep people from jumping out of her offense in pokestrings. The only real way I know how to with a confirm is st.mp xx ex fireball.

Going into L shoulder isn’t a confirm from most things and on block it just gets Laura pressured.

Playing against a decent amount of Laura’s and mikas and mikas just blow me up way harder than Laura’s tend to.

-edit, also I don’t consider Laura’s overhead a good option. On block it’s -7 and you WILL get taken for a ride as people learn the matchup. And people have a much bigger willingness to block high against her when outside her cr.mk range. As the game goes on that overhead will be used less and less. You won’t want to lose 400hp just cause you were doing g an overhead.

I honestly think the way Laura might end up being played is kinda like fei long:

Rekka to hit the opponent as they are walking forward, only for Laura the rekka will be her shoulder charge.

Maybe, though it might just be to slow at 13 frames to be able to use that way. Laura resembles fei in some ways to me. Like Abel meets fei or something.

After an EX fireball or MP Elbow knockdown you can do a move meaty enough to link into cr.mp or st.lp. You can also do her overhead meaty enough that it’s only -2.

I think Mika’s probably a better character and is at least easier to use in neutral which is why they’ll blow you up more, but the way the devs designed Laura was to be scarier on the mixup but weaker pretty much everywhere else, Mika’s V Trigger notwithstanding.

[Neclord]

-edit, also I don’t consider Laura’s overhead a good option. On block it’s -7 and you WILL get taken for a ride as people learn the matchup. And people have a much bigger willingness to block high against her when outside her cr.mk range. As the game goes on that overhead will be used less and less. You won’t want to lose 400hp just cause you were doing g an overhead.

Don’t forget the human factor.
A lot of people in tournaments already know that her overhead is heavily punishable on block, but sometimes you just don’t have the reaction or you don’t expect it. Especially during a series of her mixup pressure. Laura players just shouldn’t use it too often and it will be fine.

[Angrynord]

-edit, also I don’t consider Laura’s overhead a good option. On block it’s -7 and you WILL get taken for a ride as people learn the matchup. And people have a much bigger willingness to block high against her when outside her cr.mk range. As the game goes on that overhead will be used less and less. You won’t want to lose 400hp just cause you were doing g an overhead.

Yeah, overheads just aren’t as strong or safe in this game. Look at Ryu’s: in SFIV it was 17 start up and -2 on block, and in SFV it’s 20 frames strat up and -4 on block. Luckily for Ryu the punishment options are usually just light confirms. Laura isn’t so fortunate.

Also, I’m probably going to put a lot of lab time into Necalli this weekend. Write up definitely coming down the pipes still. Might be able to drop a match up chart next week.

One tidbit: I agree with Dime that Necalli v Chun is even. One becomes stronger than the other depending on range and meter, so it’s a lot of jockeying for position and resource management. Chun can convert more often in the match up, but Necalli converts much, much harder. Huge room for player skill to determine the outcome.

[T20thoughts]

Y’all talking about overheads not being strong, and a Chun-Li just comboed into her CA from an overhead on me. That’s downright mean.

[Dime]

Chuns is an exception. And its very reactable. Offlin, people really shouldnt be getting hit with it.

[Muttonman]

Y’all talking about overheads not being strong, and a Chun-Li just comboed into her CA from an overhead on me. That’s downright mean.

I think you mean downright forward

But really, Chun has the oddest of Overheads. It’s slow as shit, but has huge range and leaves her airborne for most of it. It’s totally safe and gets a full combo in VT.

[Dime]

Chuns overhead has no airborn frames iirc.

[Angrynord]

Most characters historically can’t combo from an overhead hit that’s not a jumping attack, so that is a rather strong option from Chun. That said, to hit it, you sort of have to have your opponent spooked. If they’re not afraid a little bit they should be able to block and punish.

I tested the reaction speed of myself and several friends, and the average reaction speed was around 300 ms, which is around 18 frames. That puts us easily in the window to react to any overhead in the game. People react even faster once they’ve been exposed to a stimuli enough. I hadn’t played SF in a while, so I was getting popped left and right by Ryu’s overhead when I first played V. Now I find them pretty easy to react to unless they’re in my head.

No one said anything (recently!) about them being weak, either. They’re not as strong (read: fast and safe) as in IV or other games, but they’re still useful, especially on certain characters. Necalli’s, for instance, is a crush counter, and you can do so many dirty things with it in the corner. Just another tool in the box.

[Muttonman]

Chuns overhead has no airborn frames iirc.

Just double checked and you’re right. It just has a bunch of low crush frames which I thought were airborne. Still annoying as hell, but in a different way

[DevilJin_01]

Chuns overhead is good just for being the only one thats safe on block at any range. Just try it and if they’re sleeping they get hit. If not oh well you closed the gap.