Street Fighter V Balance/Match Up Discussion - SHOW ME YOUR MATCH UPS

[bisonator]

I think his v skill needs improvement

[HNIC_Mike]

I dont think Bison needs his dash buffed. Its reactable, but if youre waiting to react to the dash, he can press df hp pretty freely. You can also feint either the dash or df hp with stand lk to force jumps. However, its hard to anti air with bison even when you know some characters are going to jump.

I think a buffed anti air game would help his neutral a ton.

I think he could also use some quality of life improvements on some hitboxes and damage numbers, and some small tweaks to buff his v trigger. His v skill could use a bigger hitbox to absorb attacks and a faster start up to help him defensively.

The dash is something that can easily become retarded. Its in a spot now that requires smart usage while having the ability to be used effectively, and i think thats a good place for it.

[Evil_Canadian]

I think his v skill needs improvement

Yeah, more than a few v-skills in the game are utterly forgettable and need some extra pizazz

[p1nkt1t5]

I have Cammy as current best character in the game. She has Ryu’s ability to whore super (a better one) and has his similar GDLK AA game except even more GDLK because DP to super will rek u for jumping. She also basically shuts down a majority of the game’s offensive and zoning tools once she’s sitting on super. It’s essentially the best super in the game especially at 4 frame start. It also creates a free out from pressure after a blocked DP that no other super can really do.

Then she has slightly under Chun/Karin level footsies with the second fastest back walk speed for shimmies and whiff punishing. She then also has a bunch of tools that don’t give a shit about projectiles and dives which bait and punish anti air and footsie attempts on a level that nothing else does in the game. No one else in the game has this complete of a toolset including a V Trigger that basically gives you access to 2 supers (sitting on super and V Trigger) and extra dive kicks. Her V Reversal isn’t great and her stun is the lowest in the game, but those are minor issues at worst.

Chun is strong once you learn all of her tech, but she can’t shut the game down and come back as easily as Cammy with like…no tech. It’s a good thing she doesn’t have a strong CC button otherwise she would be undisputed number 1 instead of just pretty much number 1.

The character is really fucking good. She reminds me of ae2012 Yun, sans overhead and cmd grab. The ability to just get in any range she wishes and horde meter is fantastic. Yet everyone wants to downplay her.

Also is there an official agreed upon tier list/matchup chart I can peak at.

[Cheech_Wizard]

Sounds like bison needs buffs on the defensive end. Better anti airs and also a better V Reversal, both frame data and hitbox wise. As a Sim player Bison is suffocating once hes in and his offense with f+hp at the midrange and scissor/dash up st.hk or throw pressure are really difficult to deal with. EX devils reverse is an incredibly good move that basically can’t be countered and only leads to good scenarios. At best you can trade an anti air with it which will leave you in a hard knockdown state giving Bison time to do 50 dashes up to you again. At worst you will end up either getting hit trying to avoid it or if you block you will have to take a mixup where bison is at like +million frame advantage.

Like I said though this is me playing as Sim, a fellow bottom 4 character with no walk speed also and who I happen to think Bison does quite well against. So obviously I am biased somewhat. From what I’ve heard from Bison players his worst matchups are against the grapplers, which is where defensive buffs will help.

[Danonino]

Bison with a buffed AA and maybe a small walk speed buff I’m guessing would fix it. I find once he’s in he’s oppressive as feck.

But I play Juri.

Once anyone’s in they are oppressive as feck. Or out. Or midscreen actually.

Juris pretty shit.

[DevilJin_01]

Hsien Chang only picks cheap characters so Juri is gud :giggle:

He used Yun in 3S and SFIV and used Necalli before the DLC characters hit. 

[Cipher]

I still think ,all the “Juri is shit” people want to play her SFIV version and don’t want to play her SFV version.

I don’t see how she’s supposed to suck,she’s definitly not hightier,but Mid-High seems a good spot.

[DevilJin_01]

I still think ,all the “Juri is shit” people want to play her SFIV version and don’t want to play her SFV version.

I don’t see how she’s supposed to suck,she’s definitly not hightier,but Mid-High seems a good spot.

They did the same thing to Guile. Guile doesn’t play like SFIV Guile and therefore won’t ever be good. Ryu used to be bad because he was stubby and had worse recovery on fireball also.

I didn’t like they way SFIV Ibuki played, but I looked at her objectively and after patches she basically became top or near top tier.

[Danonino]

I still think ,all the “Juri is shit” people want to play her SFIV version and don’t want to play her SFV version.

I don’t see how she’s supposed to suck,she’s definitly not hightier,but Mid-High seems a good spot.

Nah I hated her in 4 but found her interesting in 5. I’ve no idea how to check hours played per character but it’s a lot. She has the tools but she definitely has issues.

[Highlandfireball]

Bison Cleary doesn’t need a 3 bar V trigger. That’s one I’d highlight, I’d even go as far to say that unless your V-trigger is God mode like Necalli, I don’t see the need for V-triggers that are 3 bar.

Personally I don’t want the dash adjusted, Nashes dash pisses me off no end and giving Bison a 16 - 17 frame dash that is invisible and invincible would just make me wanna quit even more than I do now. Wow you’ve got a good character because the game lags? Great job.

Fundamental buffs are the way for me. AAs , Pokes, Reversals, additional links, better counter hits…

But then I’m kinda old school like that.

[Danonino]

…

Fundamental buffs are the way for me. AAs , Pokes, Reversals, additional links, better counter hits…

But then I’m kinda old school like that.

This for sure.

[Frost]

Ken with a 2-bar v-trigger is not something you want in life

[Dime]

It’s obvious that capcom was experimenting with how they made sf5. Can’t wait to see if they’ve learned anything good in the last year or so.

[Danonino]

That’s what I’m excited about. 4 got a lot wrong but by super it really was excellent and I can’t think of a recent game I’ve sank more hours into. By Ultra (ignoring the stupid move to make Yun overpowered) it had matured into a differnt beast entirely.

SFxTK I spent close to 100 bucks on but knew it would never click with me and I was disappointed. SFV is differnt. I don’t feel hopeless or that it’s going in a direction where I’d rather spend time invested in what would probably be better things. The DLC characters give me hope and an idea of where it might be heading.

I’m still struggling to figure out why I care so much though ha ha

[S_Kelson]

That’s what I’m excited about. 4 got a lot wrong but by super it really was excellent and I can’t think of a recent game I’ve sank more hours into. By Ultra (ignoring the stupid move to make Yun overpowered) it had matured into a differnt beast entirely.

SFxTK I spent close to 100 bucks on but knew it would never click with me and I was disappointed. SFV is differnt. I don’t feel hopeless or that it’s going in a direction where I’d rather spend time invested in what would probably be better things. The DLC characters give me hope and an idea of where it might be heading.

I’m still struggling to figure out why I care so much though ha ha

This. SF games and all fighting games in general are usually lackluster in the “vanilla” or original version. Like really, you don’t hear anybody talking about how great vanilla sf3/sf4 were. The original version of a fighting game is usually just an attempt to make an idea work so to speak, while the later versions attempt to snuff out unwanted elements and refine/flesh out the parts of the game that work well (and there’s obviously balance changes and possible mechanics changes/additions as well, since fighting games are never really end up being balanced exactly how the designers intended). SF5 isn’t the best it could be and I think pretty much everyone agrees on that. But I am hopeful for the future and think 5 could turn out to be really good after some patchwork. For now the game is still pretty fun for me, just feels a bit lackluster.

[Veserius]

experiments

how few people can we hire

how little money can we spend

how short of a dev timeline can we have

how many promised features can we not have in the game at launch

all very exciting.

[S_Kelson]

Very true, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have positive changes coming. The biggest issue I’ve had with the game is the input lag, which was really wack originally, better now but still could use improvement. Other things haven’t bothered me as much though. Not releasing a full story mode on launch was BM for example, but I personally didn’t care about the game’s single player at all and still haven’t played through story mode.

[qspec]

After watching Infiltrations rashid… Anyone think this character should be bumped up to high tier?

Here’s the thing:

V trigger is almost a guaranteed cornered opponent… On block. Safely.
Some of the best rushdown in the game on hit and block, with meter and without. Crazy scary corner game.
Has a 3 frame.
Good AA
A decent reversal
Decent damage in the corner and good mixups in the corner
Very good corner carry in many bnbs that sacrifice a bit of damage for position.
Great corner push on WW>vskill blockstrings

I’m not saying he’s tippity top. But his neutral and rushdown and corner carry 3 frame, reversal, and corner cheese makes him out to be a rather decent character.

I think he’s probably quite a bit better than we all initially thought. I do want to wait on calling him good though. He is massively underplayed, and until fairly recently was thought to be trash, so I don’t think he’s nearly as studied as any of the other characters. His entire schtick is making you scared to push a button on -2 (watch how many times people didn’t “take their turn” against Infiltration). If that gets figured out (if indeed it can be figured out), he could have problems.

[Quark]

His entire schtick is making you scared to push a button on -2 (watch how many times people didn’t “take their turn” against Infiltration). If that gets figured out (if indeed it can be figured out), he could have problems.

If you’re talking about the -2 reversal “mixup” - that’s not unique to Rashid, and it’s also way too risky to form a gameplan around. I highly doubt that’s the reason Rashid’s seen more tournament use recently.