carups
5321
I have to agree. Mantaining offense against people who do jump tech OS is super hard. In theory you can almost always punish it but no even top (online and tournament) players can do this. Watching the Daigo play against the more offensive characters is boring af. There are too much defensive options in this game.
Edit: Or not. People thought so when crouch-teching was found but we frame trapped the shit out of that and the only folks left spamming it were laughing stock.
I don’t think the game will become more defensive unless they remove the grey life stacking on normals and the stun bar or all the players deliberately start to ignore both. Those things are literally designed to tell the players to keep the pressure going.
That being said, I’ve seen much more footsies and whiff punishing in tournament matches than some people pretend to be, and with the right opponent you will be playing that spacing game a lot.
I don’t see Jump OS staying around any way. I’ll be surprised if we go all the way to December with it still in.
Didn’t they already try to patch it back in March? I think they simply have no way to remove it entirely without deeply altering some game mechanics and possibly creating new OS.
If they want to remove it, they’re probably going to have to reduce the massive tech window as a start. You can’t really remove all option selects tho.
Guess I’m the only one but I enjoyed watching Daigo’s defensive play and at times going on the offense. Watching Snake Eyes Ryu at AB7 being on the attack all the time wasn’t that entertaining.
The only defensive player I ever enjoy watching is JWong. Even with 50 frames of lag he will whiff punish the shit out of you.
carups
5328
I don’t see them removing the jump back tech any more than the 8f.
I like defensive play. Part of the thrill of playing offensive characters is breaking up a solid defense. It’s the fact that odds are in their favor even when you score a knockdown that makes me mad. Having an OS that covers frame traps, meaties, throws and tick throws feels like too much.
That and the fact “defensive” in this game means jump back and v-reversal instead of reaction footsies, of course.
8 frames is getting removed for sure. Too many high profile players actively pushing for it on social media. Plus all the memes.
They’ve already gotten rid of character specific OS’s that weren’t even as strong as this jump back OS tech. I’ll probably start practicing it now, but it’s one of those things where I know I’m gonna be doing it and then a month later its gone.
Okay, so as I said before, I think Ibuki is the worst character in the game. The fact that Flash put her in A tier and considers Juri to be the worst character in the game is baffling.
If you disagree, that’s cool, but I have two questions.
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Who do you think Ibuki is better than, and why?
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What matches do you think are advantageous for Ibuki?
Note: I am by no means saying the character can’t win. She’s dangerous and can win a round lightning fast if she gets her her stuff going, but I feel that applies to every character. Ibuki has to work harder to get her stuff going than everyone else. Her hurtboxes are too big, her damage is too small, her mix ups are risky and that doesn’t work great when she has the lowest health in the game. But she still has her stuff - kunai, f + hk and v-skill all demand respect and are her three best moves IMO but v-skill is highly jumpable is scouted, f+HK is a walking hurtbox the size of Texas, and Kunai needs to be managed. Kunai is amazing. Her trigger is amazing.
I ask about what advantageous match ups Ibuki has because I know for a fact there are characters in this game that Zangief beats. Same for FANG. Same with Alex, who I believe is not only highly underrated, but that he has a strong advantage over Ibuki in that match up. A good Alex dedicated to playing strong neutral gives that girl problems. Maybe she’s better than Bison? But is she really? Bison’s BNB hits hard AF, has good buttons, a legit scary trigger…his AA is so ass though.
Okay, maybe the second worse?
Flash putting her in A tier means he must have done some lab work with her, because other times hes like way off base. Can actually relate to him there.
He of course says Juri has no neutral when she arguably has more actual neutral than Ibuki.
I think Ibuki is legit better than all of the other DLC characters. Boxer is the only one that comes close but he’s too free on wake up and not as strong as Claw or Nash to make up for it IMO. Urien is the only one I’m holding out for looking better than her, but remains to be seen.
As far as the launch characters go she’s definitely better than Gief, Bison, Birdie, Sim and Fang. Arguably better than Laura too because she can amount similar momentum with better defensive options and a better range game with the kunais. Laura has more health, but she’s like Alex and Balrog where once people get near you you’d rather just have an EX reversal ready which Ibuki can give you and they can’t. Only being able to V Reversal on defense means they’ll just throw you till you burn them and then you’re left waiting a lot longer to use your V Trigger and staying under pressure longer than Ibuki would. It also means you’re forced to block in order to begin to escape a mix up which can be baited with shimmies and get you counter hit if you press 3 buttons and you weren’t actually blocking anything. Ibuki has better forward walk speed than her to so she can actually move in to counter poke or start an offense easier than her.
Nash and Claw are the only 2 characters that can get away with having to V Reversal to escape tight pressure as their backwards movement and neutral is strong enough to not have to block as often to begin with. If you don’t have a DP you need good movement to not be in bad situations often.
Basically about better than half the cast and can definitely fight the better cast. I don’t see her having any really rough matches and the closest she has to rough matches can still be dealt with. Mainly because she does have a lot of ways to open you up and kill you quickly with or without V Trigger. The more I’m playing the more I realize she can legitimately win matches without her V Trigger any ways since most all combos lead back into more pressure. They’re either taking a LP Raida which leads to free meaty with no backrise or sweep target which leads to standing reset and other cross shenanigans. Her damage doesn’t need to be high because the first combo you take you will most likely take another combo or throw after. Then if she gets V Trigger her damage potential gets to a ridiculous point where she can basically make a comeback regardless of opponent’s health.
Her mix up isn’t really what I’d call risky. Overhead is slow but can be hidden in her s.MP target combo which gives you more frame advantage on hit as well to land sweep target. It’s minus 2 on block so regardless it’s the opposite of risky. Still useful when timed right to hop over buttons and throws. MK command dash is risky only if you abuse it. If used sparingly with a lot of walking forward at the opponent it’s hard to catch before she is either at the point of frame advantage or with enough time for you to block. Especially with 8 frames involved. Plus due to her strong forward and back walk speed she can always be in range to frame trap and shimmy you very easily and then start EX kunai pressure which sets up free frame traps that people will have to burn V Reversal to not deal with.
@Windalfr seems to have 0 issues controlling the opponent’s jumps with Alex. JUST SAYING
Quark
5334
Probably Dhalsim, in the very least.
If we’re talking about which one is better right NOW it may be a toss up. But looking towards the future, Bison’s kit is pretty simple overall and he’s been around since early beta, meaning it’s very unlikely that a talented player will make a “breakthrough” with him at this point. He’s already been explored and found to be lacking. On the other hand, Ibuki is one of the more complicated characters released so far (and she’s also relatively new) so I think there’s more room for growth there.
it’s still possible that she’ll end up being crap. But possible crap is better than definite crap. And Bison is definitely crap.
Ibuki’s buttons though have shorter range, which compensates for the slower walk speed of Laura. As against Karin, I’d rather make Ibuki burn meter for EX DPs rather than let her have it for other more deadly options (i.e. EX kunais).
tbh, I think they’re pretty even. They both have to play a risky mixup game and burn meter to get the most out of each hit. Ibuki’s command dash can cross-up but it’s much less safe than Laura’s counterpart. The better defensive options of Ibuki are well balanced by her significantly lower health/stun. Thank god she doesn’t have unlimited kunais either.
Quark
5336
Couldn’t they disable teching during pre-jump frames?
qspec
5337
You can’t, but the egregious ones need to go. I view OS like bugs for the most part. They are always there, but you have to take care of the big ones, and sometimes you just have to let the little ones ride so as not to create more issues. Which Capcom feels this is remains to be seen.
As far as this particular OS, out of curiosity, why does the jump occur at all? Does a jump input have priority over throw? Can this entire issue be solved by having throw consume any buffered inputs?
people could then just jump cancel throw to beat other people’s throws.
like when you try to deal with an OS you add extra ones.
Dime
5339
The option select is block, then jump, then tech.
It blocks meaties, techs meaty throws cause you will have gotten thrown while trying to block a meaty, and jumps out of jab ticks.
The way to beat it is to do frametraps but the frame traps have to be relatively fast and the window is only 4 frames.
The option select itself isn’t THAT hard to deal with, the problem is all the other options people have at their disposal to stop tick throws and meaty throws make the jump tech even better when only done on occasion.
Tbqh, what needs to happen is the huge window for teching needs to get massively reduced or throws need a slight range increase across the board, or blocked moves need to not get so far pushed back as to eliminate so much pressure just for getting blocked.
Cipher
5340
I was just making fun of him.
I know his salt was talking and not him, no need to get all serious here.
