Quark
5301
I agree that evaluating Sim is pretty subjective at this point simply because we haven’t seen any of the absolute top caliber players pick him up. Of course the fact that a character has been shunned by all the top players may be a red flag in itself, but at least some of the other unpopular characters have specialists like Itazan and Xian to show us what that character looks like when played to a very high potential. IMO nobody is really there with Sim yet (the same goes for many other characters though).
Sim cant clean anti air Ryu jump lk. Its a trade or jump lk wins.
He can slide under it though, which is what most good sims seem to choose.
Dime
5304
So… Anyone else think the meta might be shifting towards a more defensive tone?
The games between daigo and gamer bee were REALLY defensive. And daigos new style is defensive as hell.
I think daigos new defensive style has much to do with how hard it is to throw someone and the lack of reward one gets from it. It just doesn’t pay to try to get in… And daigos new style is kinda making that abundantly clear.
Maybe this is a look at things to come, maybe not. But this game being defensive instead of offensive makes sense on paper and I’ve been touting that this game is actually defensive since day 1.
I think people just have been playing the way they want to play, rather than the way the game is showing it is meant to be played.
So many things being negative on block doesn’t make an offensive game. When people realize that maybe just maybe the ham shit is losing them games, the meta may take a hugely abrupt defensive shift and we will finally be playing “real” streetfighter 5.
I think deep inside a lot of us probably have some recollection that we aren’t playing real streetfighter 5 yet.
Frost
5305
what qualifies as “real” Street Fighter, as long as you’re hitting each other it’s Street Fighter. The way you tailor your play is subjective to the character, I would say that Ryu can shift between offensive and defensive on the fly, but someone like Cammy cannot do that.
Dime
5306
Don’t be obtuse.
When I say “real” streetfighter I wasn’t saying real streetfighter, I was saying real streetfighter “5” as none of us know how the game will really play at high level say a year or 2 from now, assuming no sweeping changes to the system.
And “real” streetfighter to me is just basically the stuff and strategies that work on that version versus the best players.
Ie if dash throw stops working at high levels in streetfighter 5 then I’d stop considering it real, and start considering it “shenanigans” or lower level stuff.
It’s real right now… But maybe it won’t be later on down the line.
I’m personally of the opinion that as players become better, the amount of things that they can get away with will start to rapidly decline.
Things like lp mixer on block into ex mixer will become more and more a thing of the past when the risk versus reward becomes exceptionally skewed especially if comebacks become less common place cause of lack of great mixups.
Anywho it’s just a theory, a theory based on the fact that there simply isn’t that many great offensive strategies in the game that beats blocking+executional tech such as jump tech and late tech. Combine them and it’s my personal belief that the game is going to slow down once a few good players start winning with the minimalist approach.
Daigo seems to be heading that way, and gamer bee is there as well. There’s also the fact that there are characters in the game that are kinda ham… Like cammy that have fast safe on block stuff that moves forward… So the entire meta might not go defensive… But maybe it will.
It was just very interesting to see gamer bee and daigo defense it up in winners and grandfinals.
Frost
5307
who does GB play? I haven’t seen him as of recent
Dime
5308
He was using necalli at ozhadou
There is the thing aswell that the Japanese always seem to favour the long drawn out style as their stratagy. Unless they sniff blood of course.
I too thought the game was heading towards/designed to be super lame ( I remember a bunch of us saying in the beta thread that nobody’s going to press any buttons).
I never did get the more " offensive" game comments, they seemed to come from Capcom PR spinners then it felt like everyone went online , smashed a thousand buttons and said " whoa this game is super aggressive"
Then there’s the fact Infiltration came up with a super effective stratagy early game with Nash and everyone sort of just copied what he was doing. Same with Tokido, he figured out meaty set ups way before most players.
I dunno. The game might be more defensive in s2 when lag gets reduced.
I just feel right now it’s difficult to zone and whiff punish mediums. Those were always cornerstones of defensive play in general
Dime
5311
Been trying to use a very defensive style Alex online right now and getting blown up by getting kept out or constantly jumped on as is his lp AA seems to wiff at a lot of spacings and especially crossups.
So one component of this defensive play will have to be good AA… Of course… But it seems harder with other characters ESPECIALLY when I’m not really offensively dictating the pace of the match.
-edit… That auto correct DP though…
Lol just lost to a juri that does NOTHING but j.mk ambiguous crossup… This game is for baddies… Lol so many times in neutral it was hitting me from the front but then miraculously hits crossup… Salty as hell cause the slow walkspeed is keeping me from being able to control my opponents space in front of me so I’m at their whim of crossing up or not or dashing at almost all times. I really wish crossups weren’t so noob good in this game…lol.
Oh well.
Cipher
5312
The master theorist has problems dealing with crossups and jump-ins, lp aa not good enough.
Plays a grappler and complains about slow walkspeed.
How to fix this problems?
Play a character with better aa,pick someone with better walkspeed.
All your problems are gone.
There’s YHC_Mochi and Torimesingo for top Sim . They were the best in IV.
Dime
5314
I destroyed him the next match we played4 rounds to 0.
That master theory putting in work as to why I was getting beat and at what ranges he was doing stuff and what I needed to do to beat him. Switched up my entire gameplan and spacing and destroyed him with little thought.
But yeah, Alex’s lack of fast walkspeed mobility is surprising to me for some reason.
-edit, also that was my first time ever playing against a juri. Her moves are unknown to me. But now I have some matchup knowledge gained… She has a good crossup and now know what spacing it is good from what timing it hits and what some of her more obvious ways to set it up are.
@Dime_x absolutely. The game is bound to shift towards more traditional stuff. People have to have time to get used to their normals and controlling the dashes.
I dunno if this game ever slows to sf4 levels tho without all the built in system defense.
As long as Mika and Ibuki are in the game, offense will be strong. At least for them.
The game itself isn’t hugely offensive and I don’t think it needs to be, but there’s characters you can pick if you don’t like people blocking. Nobody survives blocking Mika without a V Reversal or a DP somewhere and Ibuki will get to that point pretty soon also.
Ken and Nash are pretty up there in the blocking only lasts so long factor also. Especially with V Gauge stocked.
there are only a few characters with good aa lights
it tracks crossups and those characters also have invincible reversals
it’s not about this character lacks options so pick this character that has all options
also different characters fit different peoples playstyles
Bison isn’t a grappler and has shit walkspeed and shit AA
What about him? Should all bison players just drop him for Ryu?
Most Bisons either have a secondary character (that usually is better than him) or have dropped him.
Theres a few Japanese online guys that still solely main him, but Phenom, Ice and Dogura all have other characters now.
Right
but I don’t think it’s wrong to ask for a couple buffs when it’s apparent that these characters could use it
Would making Bison’s crHP 8f just like Guiles crHP or hell even 9f like necallis, make him overpowered? Hell while ken’s typically trades but still has CC capabilities, it’s 6f!
Im not really having myself in the buff/nerf mindset until after December. Im just soaking in a game where I can at least play the same meta for a year.
I agree, but ill personally discuss it more as it gets closer to that time
