3121

Seriously, I picture Capcom big-wigs sitting around a table drinking something expensive (bought by Sony) saying, “In previous games, Dhalsim was an annoyance. What do we need to change to make sure that he ruins the game for people who play him. It is important that this happens whether he wins or loses. Ideas?”

That said, I don’t think he’s nearly as bad as people are saying here. I’d still put him top 5 for a lot of MUs, but he has bad MUs that really lower his stock.

Now Bison… that’s a character that was good when people were learning the game but sucks now.

3122

Sim is a very powerful character imo, just the usual sponsored players are using other chars.

3123


Interesting tech with Birdie’s VT from Desk. Even if the super cancel isn’t necessary unless you’re trying to beat a multi-hit move, the fact that the input system will let you cancel the first frame of an EX move into Critical Art because the game hasn’t deducted your meter yet is interesting.

3124

Dhalsim is, and has always been, a specialist character. Either you main him, or you don’t play him at all. Hence the guys playing Sim in one game usually plays Sim in every game.

He’s quite decent though, I’d put him alongside Cammy and Vega. He just doesn’t blow people’s minds anymore now that people started figuring him out, and you can’t make mistakes with him.

3125

As usual with Capcom, they compensated Sim by making him good up close with improved drills, gale, and close normals. But made him quite a bit worse at mid to long range with slower to much slower far limbs, arcing yoga fire, and the absence of a good mid range poke like SFIV st.lk.

Frame data of Sim’s far normals for comparison:
SFIV frame data;

St.mk 9/3/14
St.mp 9/3/14
St.hp 10/6/16
St.hk 13/4/16
St.lk 7/4/8
D/Df.lp 9/4/11
D/Df.mp 12/3/16
D/Df.hp 14/3/21

SFV Frame data;
St.mk- 10/2/14
St.mp- 12/2/17
St.hp-20/3/22
St.hk-16/2/23

While having a considerable difference in raw numbers, you also have to factor in the greatly diminished utility of his far normals. In IV, Sim had 7 different far normals that were viable to combat an opponents counter poke attempts. They all varied with different hit and hurtboxes and carried less to much less risk if you were to get jumped in on.

In V, his far limbs are much more easily counterpoked because of decreased utility, less varied hit and hurtboxes, overlapping hurtboxes, slower speed, CC, priority system, etc.

To counter a counterpoke with Sim in V, you have to mix up the use of St.hk and St.hp because of the slow startup to throw your opponent off. Now, if either of those buttons get jumped in on, it’s the same, frame data wise, as throwing out a hadoken. It’s a big risk for a move that can be counterhit and is -5 and -6 on guard (-6 can be punished by Chun, Nec, and Nash super.)

I still think Sim is a solid mid tier character with just a few bad MU’s (Nec, Cammy, Alex, Rashid). He definitely is fun.

2017 changes I’d like to see:

St.mk- 10/2/14 to 9/3/14
St.mp- 12/2/17 to 10/3/15
St.hp-20/3/22 to14/5/20; Damage-90 to 80
St.hk-16/2/23 to 12/4/20; Damage-90 to 80
B.mp-8/4/11 to 6/6/11 (the same as SFIV).
B.hp- 12/6/24 to 10/6/24
J.mp tagged to hit grounded opponents.
Super changed to hit while opponent is crouching.
Less recovery on his backdash or improved distance.

3126

Thats true about his super. I never understand why people get hit by wake up super when you can just crouch it.

Ill have to check out that Birdie tech vid

3127

The idea of Sim is fun, and OG was a really fun character, but SF4/V Sim is like a really bad imitation of classic Sim designed by fans of anime fighters who only knew about Dhalsim from a phone conversation with a Sim player who had difficulty speaking the language and was also driving through a tunnel. So no, I don’t think playing Sim is fun in SFV.

3128

once japan said sim wasn’t high tier people stopped talking about him. Maybe those were the bandwagoners?

3129

When they first announced white damage and sim, I had nightmare flashbacks of A3 Sim taking chunks off your guard bar from full screen with stand fierce.

If they gave him back his old stand fierce, I wonder if a white damage based playstyle would’ve worked with Sim.

3130

Meh, I think Sims solid. Sim has some very good tools to play both sides, good hit confirms and a comback mechanic for once in Carpet with the added bonus of also having V-reversals. Good tech beaters and some good confirms into Super. Playing a good sim this time round isn’t just about chasing him down.

If a characters not blowing through CPT tournaments or Momochi doesn’t play him, he must be shit…

3131

Of course Desk has to throw Marvel 2 music in there lol.

Sim is better than IV Sim, but not top tier. That’s pretty much what I feel.

3132

I only feel he’s limited by match-up indifferences which is kinda inherent when you’re designed like Dhalsim, some characters are just going to body that sort of toolset. Unless Sim had something ridiculous(Alpha 3) then he’s only ever gonna hit that A/B+ bracket tbh.

SFV Sim is exceptionally well made though, I like how he plays a lot. Did anybody catch FChamp’s juggle confirm? Shit was INSANE, first combo I’ve gotten actually hyped at and been like “oh shit!” at my desk.

3133

One of Sims main offensive tools is his drill.

Its slow enough that you can v reversal, and characters like Cammy can literally walk back out of the mixup unless she’s cornered.

Sim is scary in the corner but outside of it, who cares?

There’s very little reason to respect Sim either. You can pretty much do whatever you want.

3134

Maybe with cammy you can disrespect sim, but others have to actually play his dumb ass. I still think sim is incredibly powerful… I just think people are still using him in a hokey way that doesn’t cut it at the highest levels.

3135

I’m of the opinion that if SFIV Sim was directly ported over to V with V mechanics, he would absolutely shit on the V cast.

I don’t think Sim is held back by lopsided MU’s because, IMO, none of his bad MU’s are worse than 6-4. Maybe Necalli teters on that 6.5-3.5 edge. I can agree that he is well made, but I want him to be able to zone better with his far normals.

3136

Mika and rashid?

3137

Rashid/Dhalsim would be 7-3 if Rashid had better damage, but currently it’s like watching a pillow fight. Mika is bad, but a mobile Dhalsim that knows how to run away and evade properly is harder for Mika do deal with than the usual poke and IAT style, which puts it around 6-4 or 6.5-3.5.

3138

I think you’re seeing some good play come out of him. Both Sabin and FChamp are doing well at a high level (FChamp is also why despite protestations, white damage Sim is a real thing). Both of them placed top 16 at Combo Breaker, and FChamp took 3rd. While that may not be as tough a tournament as Evo, it’s not nothing. Especially considering that the tournament held some of the best the states have to offer: NuckleDu, LI Joe, Wong, Ortiz, K-Brad, and FilipinoMan.

Here is FChamp playing NuckleDu’s Nash.

3139

Sim is a slow flowchart with an obvious game plan. The only mains are holdovers from SF4 and the reality is they can barely compete on the U.S. level and typically get wrecked by the Japanese. I put him around top 8 in terms of tier rankings but any character who can run out the clock frequently probably won’t be successful on a professional level. He can be effective as a counterpick but as a main, forget it, he’s not top 8 material at Premier event. I actually put Guile (who ranks similarly in terms of tiers) in this same category too but can respect FChamp and ChrisG for trying to prove me wrong.

3140

From what ive heard Chris G also doesn’t think Guile is good. He isn’t trying to prove anyone wrong since he knows the character isnt amazing. He just picks characters he likes for the most part.