one thing i dont agree with that list of change is that fireball increased by 25% is way too powerful for akuma.

c.mk > fireball on a crouching akuma would be 20% damage. and his mixups with the buffed up fireballs would be OP IMO

and another thing: ibuki doesnt need more stun opportunities. she stuns opponents VERY easily and is the most underrated char in the game if you ask me.

?For linking SA2 (Shin Shoryuken) afterwards on crouching opponents ONLY. (SA2 is the least-used super

what do you mean??

I’m not denying that Chun is OP. However, rather that complaining about how OP she is, I’d rather take a more positive/constructive approach, rather than just whining about it.

maybe i’m throwing myself to the lions here but i disagree with many of arlieth’s ideas. some look fairly extreme (mostly since he’s considering things that go beyond what’s usually discussed, like making good supers worse and unused ones better to even them out) or homogenizing to me. but i’m not surprised people are suddenly in favour of it when a second ago, any change at all made the game ā€œnot 3S.ā€ i guess 3S players are more fickle than we thought we were.

I don’t think that’s something he actually WANTED but he was mainly looking at it from the risk vs reward point of view…fireballs are easily parried and are actually risky in this game so a lil power boost is understandable but like you said it can be a pain in the ass for some chars…it doesn’t even have to be a 25% boost it can just be a 10% or 15% boost but I don’t agree with it too much either

As far as I know nobody gets meter unless a projectile hits(or is blocked). You get no meter for a parried fireball. Getting meter for throwing a fireball would be an okay change.

i whined about it because so many ppl like you arent accepting changes, thus suggesting her OP’ness is okay. if you read some of my previous posts, you would read my constructive approach such as depleting her stamina to akumas health. therefore there wont be much ā€˜change’ to adapt to.

[media=youtube]zoVS9YMYCug&feature=related[/media]
:20 that fireball link already does a lot of damage. akuma should IMO be neglected of a fireball buff. if not, i agree 10%-15% is okay but NOT 25%

Some of these changes will need to modify hitboxes which is the most stupid thing to do with this game.
Increase FB damage is just dumb.

This is sad…

TOM WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING!!!11!!11one!!!

i thought arlieth was supposed to be a respected 3s player. I understand a rebalance for 3s OE, but his reasoning for many of the changes is terrible. i’ll go thru and point it out when i have more time if enough people disagree

you guys have to remember these are just suggestions, and more top players are going to be asked for more according to the post so maybe we should wait to see what other stuff ppl suggest

Okay I was about to fliiiip. XP XD

A blanket 25% damage buff to fireballs seems a bit weird, especially since it’s not the damage that makes them meh right now, it’s just how they interact with the system. But changing that system in some fashion to accomodate fireballs would change 3s a LOT… and I’m not sure if that’s good either.

Oh, and it’d make fireball combos absurd.

*Essay time.

Okay, last reply here, the SRK trolls are getting anxious.

To defend my self a bit; WHAT exact matches were you speccing? Something about you just makes me think you’re with Agumon and Justin Bieber, another one of the boy toys that trolls everyone. I can tell by your attitude.

Had you taken the time before making your highly inaccurate accusation, you would see that I never said the game was broken, I said specifically that Chun is broken. What is so difficult to understand about that? And people agree that she’s broken. So where is the argument in that?

Did I ever say I am god’s gift to 3S? No. Did I ever say I was tourney level? No. I’ve played really good players like 2nasty, Rockman, Red Parry, and Down Right Fierce. Great players! No doubt. I hope to get to that level. Do I do unsafe shit with Alex? Sometimes I do, but if it doesn’t work after 2-3 attempts, I no longer do it. Stomp Crossups? Fuck yeah I do them. And guess what retard? It catches people 90% of the time. So if you do this one thing and it fucks people up, would YOU stop doing it? If a Ken player does his crossup and it works almost every time they do it, would they stop? Fuck no. I do well in most of my matches. Tourney players consistently beat my ass, and that’s to be expected of course, I need to go to some tourneys.

But this is GGPO, and you can think otherwise and think it’s brilliant, but lag is a factor for 3S. Everyone knows this. So sometimes retarded shit is allowed to happen. For example: I do sHP with Alex, and this is guaranteed to interrupt the SRK (aside from EX version of course) but sometimes it beats it because of lag. As a result I’m forced to block it, which I don’t mind too much but if the guy is really predictable and the game allows you to interrupt his bs, I should be allowed to do that lag or not. I fought a Ken player the other day, he did SA3 on wakeup, I blocked the whole thing, I’m in the middle of punishing with super, I’m not doing anything fancy, the guy is almost dead, and the retard Ken player mashes out an SRK and it comes out instantly. And when I say instant, I mean literally right after the last hit of his SA3 was blocked, SRK instantly came out. I relate this incident (the only thing I said negatively about the Ken player is that he mashed out SRK) and everyone rallies to this guy’s defense… Come the fuck on guys.

Basically the rest of your attack suggests that I’m a bad player who doesn’t understand anything (que the retard who will quote this sentence and add a caption and try to be funny for his boyfriends). I really don’t know what to tell ya’. I can’t really play theory fighter with you and say I know this and this matchup and this and this combo, so I’m not going to play that little game with you. I think I specced a match of yours and it looked like you got destroyed, I don’t know because I left after one round, but based on what I’ve seen it’s clear that you don’t know what you’re talking about and only know a few combos.

Do you really think I care what the mongoloids think of me? Do you think it matters to me if the computer god parroting puppet gangster slaves like me or not? I tried to have some sort of intelligent conversation with you guys, but it’s impossible. You people don’t debate shit. A buncha’ lemmings. You people are going to run out and buy 3S Online if it’s rebalanced anyway. Just like you all bought MVC2 even if it isn’t arcade perfect. And just like how everyone ran out and bought Super SF4 even though the gameplay and netcode remained exactly the same. I mean, it’s clear that you’re listening to Frankenstein earphone radio you foolish sheep.

So there is no point. This is just another rant for the pile. And I’m fucking done. I’m going off to check out the latest Juri hentai flash video by Zone now. See you there.

Yeah, I’m done here.

This thread is why they should change nothing. This same debate will go on the office and they wont get any where. Game would never come out.

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Tom does have some interesting ideas and looks like he put some thought into it. Although a couple of those ideas are plan retarded… (sorry Tom)

Any changes made to the game and it would no longer be 3s as far as I’m concerned…

I don’t really agree with a lot of those changes, to be honest. I can see he’s trying to make a lot of the other moves a bit more useful, but…it just seems unnecessary. I can agree with SOME of the nerfs though, such as Makoto and Akuma’s weird invincible frames, but a lot of the buffs aren’t really needed.

Overall an interesting list of suggestions, but I still say the game should remain unchanged.

While I now fundamentally disagree with the idea of a re-balance (owing to reasons such as trying to create cohesion between older and newer players, and also trying to keep the absurdly intricate 3S experience consistent between console and arcade [what few remain anyway]), some of those tweaks suggested by Arlieth are interesting, though I do not agree with them all. I’ll comment on the tweaks suggested for the characters I understand best (Hugo, Q and Twelve).


Hugo

- Meat Squasher: Faster speed on MK/HK versions.
^^ This would actually be one of the few reasonable tweaks it is possible to give to Hugo. Hugo is a character with some of the most well-rounded design in 3S, and any buffs for him can have MASSIVE implications. It is important that Hugo remains very difficult to use properly, and this tweak to his Meatsquasher would not really have a dramatic effect on that, so it is acceptable.

- Megaton Press (SA2): More invincibility frames.
^^ Baaaaaaaaaaad idea. A considerable lack of invincibility frames is all that keeps this SA from being the super of choice for most Hugo players, and to add ANY more invincibility frames dramatically increases the usefulness of this (it is already decent, it is only held back by Hugo as a character and how much better SA1 and SA3 are). As it is, Hugo has 3 superb supers, they just happen to all be difficult to use well. Megaton is a great super with everything going for it, it’s just that by design Gigas and Hammer are better/more scary. This super would need to have severely reduced damage output if it had more invincibility frames, but that would take away from the initial fear-factor of it in the first place: it is simply not worth tinkering with.

- Monster Lariat: Should have a cancel option similar to his Hammer Frenzy if Kick is held down. Still has a ā€˜skidding’ animation.
^^ I’m not really sure about this. In my mind, LK Lariat is already too fast to have this kind of property, and if it did have a skid option then what use would it serve with LK Lariat that a regular dash does not? Just meter building and inching forward? MK and FK versions would obviously be the most useful, but good players can already react to whiffed LK Meatsquashers and Hammer Frenzies (when cancelled) so this might not be too useful. Either that, or this would be too powerful: even with a skidding animation, Hugo could too easily usurp charge characters’ set-ups from afar with too little work.

- Lariat does not hit crouching opponents, period.
^^ This is an overall harmless idea. It would be visually a bit weird if Hugo’s Lariat whiffs vs Hugo, but I feel as a ā€˜nerf’ (or even buff? hehe) it would not be very impactful, so I can live with this.


Q

- Dashing Head Attack: Hits all crouching characters.
^^ J’agree.

- Dashing Leg Attack/Overhead Attack: Reduce startup frames.
^^ Yep.

- c.HP: Should be cancelable.
^^ This is an interesting one, I like it.

- Total Destruction (SA3): Faster startup on his QCF+P/K attacks.
^^ The thing that really lets down those attacks isn’t the start-up, it’s the recovery. Sure Dageki (QCF+P) is slow to begin, but it is also possible to cancel in to. Danger! (QCF+K) has decent start-up as it is. Better recovery would instantly make those attacks more threatening, and in a totally non-character-breaking way


Twelve

- Air-Dash: Tap down to cancel.
^^ Then what? Twelve returns to a normal falling state? Can he begin another Air Dash? Presumably this is only to allow him to parry after activating an AD so that he doesn’t get caught by crap like Urien’s Spheres and so on. Interesting idea, and it certainly wouldn’t be drastically game-changing for him.

- b+MK: Make into a jump-cancelable launch.
^^ This renders Twelve’s normal MK redundant doesn’t it? The only significant difference between MK and B.MK would be Twelve’s get-hit box which is more favourable on B.MK. Add to that that B.MK already has special and super-cancelable properties, and MK just looks pointless.

- A.X.E.: EX version should vacuum and be cancelable on each hit.
^^ Argh, EX A.X.E. is already -4 on block, if it has a vacuum effect then it would make getting command-grabbed inevitable. Agree about the cancel properties though.

- N.D.L.: Increase damage by 25%.
^^ Nice, makes his ranged and anti-air game SLIGHTLY more ā€œdangerousā€, lol.

- D.R.A.: Knockdown on hit.
^^ A blocked D.R.A. would still mean death though. I think far more useful (though by no means too empowering) would be higher/further bounce-back PLUS the ability to link in to an AD, aerial A.X.E, etc.

- X.C.O.P.Y.: Allow EX moves during morph state (costs 15% Timer)
^^ Nice, this would be a subtle but useful ability that would give people that aren’t Kuroda an incentive to use it more.

- X.F.L.A.T.: Should hit identically on both grounded and aerial opponents.
^^ Totally agree.

Hrm…I dunno. It’s not that I don’t agree with the Q buffs, I just think that it doesn’t help Q in the bigger picture. Part of Q’s biggest problem is that when he gets rushed down in the corner by characters like Makoto or Alex, he has nothing to defend against them except either jumping or guess high or low. If I had to suggest one thing, it’s make the startup of SA1 also invulnerable to throws. It would at least help Q deal with the Karakusa/Powerbomb/Alex’s b.HP mixups.

I wouldn’t really care if they don’t put it in, considering that even though Q doesn’t have too many options, he’s still able to do at least decently against the cast.