No other genre can replace the type of mental skills fighting games measure, and I like that part, even more when the execution is easy and both players can pull off the things they plan to. If I wanted to play other genres I’d be doing so already, but they measure different things.
Misidentification of a strawman. If you have what sirlin had in mind, he actually had to add to the definition of execution to get his point across. This guy didn’t quote anything sirlin said in that respect, making him fair game. And what he said is exactly how I put it. No execution is equal to not executing, and regardless of how many buttons he said the guy had, it doesn’t matter, he’s not pressing it. We’re typing all this in ENGLISH here, so it helps to say things PROPERLY. In which case, him saying something akin to “A guy NOT having to execute his moves but being at the peak of his strategy can easily defeat a guy who has to execute his moves having no strategy, but flawless execution”.
So sir white knight, quit trying.
Well… In that case, there’s no true way of differentiating the two. You have to know the basis of both to succeed in any fight, so that’s like arguing about whether or not a chef has experience compared to how well he can cook. Not saying that it doesn’t matter, but it’s better to combine them rather than to compare.
OK… I’m confused. Maybe we can get some clarity here…
What are we specifically talking about? Execution as in pretzel motion specials or execution as in strict timing in combos? I feel like they are separate topics…
Okay then I see what he’s saying
I think this was his point
Both would apply, but on a slider
You have poor reading comprehension. I defined footsies my way in the thread it was taken from, because I reject the generally accepted definition of it as there’s already other terms that better suit it. And do tell me, how hard is it to be disliked at a forum? 
Different combo options with different benefits is a good thing to have, but has nothing to do with execution.
All the options can be easy to perform, and it won’t harm the game. (As long as they are all balanced of course.)
I feel like that point is mistaken. There are hordes of good Sakura players that do not rely on 1 frame links. What he said about Sakura can be applied to half of the SF4 cast as well as other games.
but is nott the point of having a diverse cast to have different type of characters?
like characters that are easy to use and accessible and having others that require time to be used effectively?
execution is something that sooner or later would arise, marvel 2 started as an “scrubby game” but with the years when new stuff was discovered, the execution bar rised
There are plenty of other kinds of diversity.
“We’ll make this character harder to use, that’d be different!” is a pretty poor way to design a character.
no, is not
its all about the risk reward, i already explained this to you so many time that im not gonna waste my time doing it again (plus its more fruitful to hit my nuts with a hammer than trying to have an intelligent discussion with you ), im just gonna point that is not bad design, since you are providing different types of characters for different players that seek different things when they play a game
some like to explore a character and push it to the limits, invest time on them, some like chars that are easy to use and that require little effort, as long as the risk reward ratio is balanced, there shouldnt be a problem
Your insights into the development process are astounding.
I’m out, time to enjoy this thread from afar.
Oh, wait, I didn’t know this was that kind of discussion. Though, I really should have known better. Farewell.
that’s certainly good too…hmm.
good points everywhere!
I approve of this message.
Go to an arcade. You can always find a Tokido-like guy who is an expert at one game but dabbles in all of them. Have him play a game that he only plays casually and you have your Mr. Strategy (ie. Justin Wong in Skullgirls). After that you just need to look for the dude who spends all his time practising combos and copying other peoples’ strategies because he can’t come up with his own. He’ll usually play a flowcharty game, fishing for hits so he can go into a TOD combo. I knew plenty of people IRL who play this way back when I lived in Tokyo but I can’t think of a pro who is like that. The closest I can think of is Abegen when he plays an unfamiliar match-up. He’ll just fish for hits and hope he lands a lucky hitconfirm into a TOD combo (check out the EVO2K12 stream where he was up against Haggar).
No one was saying that’s not a part of reality for some games, but this thread is about preferences. Reality also offers us many different games to play, and not all of them require magic hands to play at high level.
Diversity in character style… Still doesn’t have anything to do with execution. If you make both Venom and Ky easy in execution they are still different characters.
then why the fuck are you complaining
i already said it, just because you dont like execution requeriments, it doesnt mean that other dont, that is why having different options is a good thing, it could be character wise, or simply playing other game that caters your taste
its like people compaining about x game having long combos, or not having more mobility, instead of whining try to play a game that fits what you like, or in the case of the characters, play a char that suits better what you seek for
geez
slayer is a character that is build around having some execution requeriments, the same is ino, both work well in the game
as i said, there are different types of players, there is nothing wrong on providing them with some characters that fit their taste/style, etc
That’s not even risk/reward though.
Risk/reward would be “This move is very powerful and yet very unsafe”.
If you’re making a move harder to do, there had better be more reason than ‘it’s different’ or ‘it’s traditional’.
The fact alone that you do this means that we’re not going to get anywhere, at least if you’re involved. You’re just going to keep getting called out for “straw man” arguments.
As for being disliked, well seeing as I had a full green rep bar prior to the 2010 upgrade and a shit ton of likes, well I guess I wouldn’t know now would I.
Anyway, back on topic, guess what Infiltration (and Laugh) was practicing during his free time at EVO2012. Nope, it wasn’t combos, or damage, it was basics. Timing, footsies, etc. Sure you could say that he already had godlike execution, but in that field, any executional advantages are most likely null and void.