it’s really nothing more than this
he made it about sirlin, which smoothly deflected any other content into oblivion 
Thats what gets people to buy a game, what gets them to keep playing is entirely different.
Saying all strict execution should be completely removed from fighting games is as obnoxious as saying the opposite. Lots of people enjoy grinding things out in training mode and I wouldn’t ever want to take that away from them. The problem is, as it stands we’re pretty far off in the other direction where execution is dominant. As I mentioned earlier, I know that if I spend my evenings practising execution and not actually playing, my success against real opponents goes up. How does that not indicate some sort of imbalance?
So much attention is spent crafting these games with finely tuned frame data. We all await the patch notes for the latest update that will tweak whatever move by 1 frame and yet when you apply say +/-3 frames to each move for a ‘good’ player’s typical input window (let’s stick another couple of frames of variance if playing online). The current trend for frame perfect inputs (atleast for 2D fighters) just doesn’t make any sense. Take it to the extreme with a novice player who may have upwards of 7-8 frames either way of hitting their target and they’re not even playing the same game. I’ve sat friends down to try and show them the sort of good stuff we see in a fighting game, to try and get them hooked but I know they’re a good 6 months away minimum from even beginning to play the game somewhat like it is intended.
As an example, I got up close to my opponent through some kind of ‘good’ play, I also know that after my move I’ve just landed I am at +1 on block, he doesn’t know this so we both hit our 3f jab. I have to hit my button with 1/60th of a second’s worth of precision to reap the benefits of my knowledge. How is that possibly good design??
easy mode fighters like sf4 definitely don’t keep me playing. In fact, they turned me off from the entire SF series and I haven’t gone back to it since super sf4.
and SC\SC2 are VERY technical and they have a massive player base so its not like execution requirements prevent people form playing that game.
execution requirements never keep people from playing games, its mainly their attitudes. To all the people who bitch about execution requirements and someone like brollylegs wishes he had hands to beat you harder with.
execution is pretty fair because you have TO WORK for it. Even someone like brolly legs understands that
The thing is you (and I) are the minority. Our experiences/wants aren’t typical and we have to think about that when looking at these things.
Edit: And seriously, however technical they become on higher levels and after years of gameplay development, the early Soul games are about as accessible as you can get. Anybody can run around like a maniac and do striking 8wr attacks, or just go f,f+AB and feel awesome… and you can expand those things into more and more skilled play. In the old ones you don’t really have to take time out to learn combos, you can just start fighting.
It’s not like that’s because they don’t mind putting in the work to overcome the barrier. The overwhelming majority of people who play Starcraft 2 just have terrible execution.
Some people will never see this though. I’d love to be able to take all FG experience away from a player and watch them flail trying to perform even the most basic of inputs.
Put a bunch of random gamers from different genres down in front of SFIV and see how ‘easymode’ its inputs are.
“I don’t like it, so it’s bad design.” Can we stop that?
aside from 1-frame links you’re insane if you think anything in that game has an input that would take someone more than 5-10 minutes to be able to do consistently unless you’re hypothetical situation is based on erasing all motor skill from someone’s brain before you give the The Hadoken Challenge
You think the average person could perform something like jab jab x DP FADC Ultra consistently after 5-10mins :lol:
you said “the most basic of inputs” which i thought meant things like “hadoken” and “dp”, I apologize for your not being clear
Some people like doing things that require physical dexterity and strategy. Crazy, I know.
As an aside, SC as an acronym is always a massive PITA
Reminder that there is a weird cult of people on this forum who, although they won’t mention it outright, believe that if they make fighting games “accessible” enough then every “gamer” out there will become a serious competitor and fighting games will be brought into a new Golden Age on par with the SF2 era and fighting games in America will be equivalent to Starcraft in Korea.
I’ll bet you a selection of gamers couldn’t reversal DP consistently after 5-10mins, hell I bet you most couldn’t DP consistently after 10mins. They sure as hell wouldn’t be consistently punishing moves <5f on block. Which is pretty much ‘the game’.
you and everyone else in this thread are really smart and correct and you guys should go make a thread on teamliquid where you can drop some knowledge on the Starcraft community about how SC2 could be redesigned
To clarify, for everyone that hasn’t read all 11 pages of this thread: it’s wrong to like doing things that require both physical dexterity and strategy. Games that require both shouldn’t exist. No one enjoys both of those things, let alone at the same time. You can decide for yourself: you can either go pro at pressing a button the most times in a minute or at being a Sun Tzu Bruce Lee Albert Einstein brain warrior. There’s no middle ground.
thats mind games: the game:
http://img.greentradebay.com/picture/7010579/7010579_40522602929722213.jpg
You absolutely must win ‘Straw man of the day’ with this little gem.
We’ve proven pretty thoroughly with this thread that it’s objectively wrong to require physical dexterity in a game designed for competition with another human so I guess I might be a little off in saying that it’s “wrong” but a person would definitely have to be stupid to enjoy a game that incorporates physical dexterity.