"Stop Being a Freebuki!" (Advanced Play Thread)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
161

For 360’s getting you out of the kunai mixups, they should only be able to Ex-spd you. More trouble than this in my experience is lariat. I havn’t tested it that much my self, but it seems to beat all kunai. Again I am only talking about what I have experienced in match play, maybe I wasn’t getting it meaty enough, but lariats hit the kunai even when its in his legs. Hawks dp should get baited like all the others as long as you are properly landing on his back side.

Dictator can’t really do anything besides ex-psycho crusher to get out of the vortex SAFELY. ex head stomp will just whiff infront of you and let you punish, so just make the most of any kd you get against him and go for the gold. Footsies against him are a crapshoot.

Chun can spinning bird kick.

Akuma can Teleport. You’re mistiming it if you’re getting dped.

Blanka up ball/Guile flash kick can hit you out of it on a cross up kunai if you miss timed by a frame or two and they reversal late in the window(which can be hard).

Abel can probably roll, and ex grab if timed right.

Guy is like chun.

Boxer can probably ex rush punch out, but thats it.

Gouken can counter, and this applies to every counter, you just have bait it out, and after you punish a counter you can try to mix him up next time, or try to bait again. Basically it is just a matter of being in your opponents head. If you don’t feel comfortable guessing, just safe jump os throw tech. Dudley’s counter has a good chance of sending him the wrong way.

Seth isn’t really more dangerous than any one else. I don’t know specifics about him, but if his ex-360 has invincibility, it can probably get you. Teleports.

I can’t think of anything else of the top of my head, but just try to understand how your mixup is working, and I think you can basically figure out what is going to be dangerous, and what isn’t. If you guys want I can throw this in the first post.

162

Don’t fuck with grapplers, especially with female low health, it isn’t worth it.

Akuma/Seth/Boxer/Sim/Abel/Bison/Elf

teleport, roll, ex rush/turn punch, ex run

Assuming you’re doing the crossup kunai vortex correctly, which SHOULD be assumed in theory fighting… blanka balls, flashkicks, srks and the like should never ever hit you, even reversal ultras, they should always hit in the direction you jumped from if you did it correctly.

Guy isn’t really like chun cuz chuns exsbk can be tagged by the kunai, guy has ex tatsu will hit you though.

Gouken = Parries obviously.

When you say dudley’s counter you mean his cross counter? Kunais break it.

163

So, i’ve been working on a different aspect of the vortex. When I play I like to combo into her MK Tsumuji with the untechable knockdown. From there if you walk forward a little bit you can set up a pretty ambiguous cross-up on the opponent with jumping LK.Afterwards I like to combo into LP,MP(1 hit) and back into tsumujis. I havent tested it out extensively on wake-up shoryukens. But I destroyed an abel using it because Abel had no answer to it. Any thoughts?

164

abel couldn’t counter with falling sky?

165

Falling Sky’s startup is ass, 9 frames if i’m not mistaken 5 or 6 for the Ex version. So not likely

166

Yeah, since you’re pretty much falling on top of his head right when he wakes up its not gonna hit Ibuki. Id imagine he could roll out but thats super obvious and you’ll be able to neckbreak him on reaction.

167

nice! thanks I’ll remember that

168

I was in training mode yesterday practicing Ibuki’s necksnap-superjump-kunai vortex. I would record myself doing the cross-up, then play it back and attempt to block it. By some fluke, this happened:

[media=youtube]rCPAElVz3js[/media]

If I held left (blocking normally), I would get hit. But if I held right (blocking cross-up), I would ALSO get hit. I played this back repeatedly, and I definitely could not block it standing: the kunai is unblockable if you are standing.

As it turns out, the kunai does not hit meaty. So I could block it by crouching, i.e. holding down and right (crouching cross-up). This also means that it would’ve been hard or impossible(?) to combo off of this “unblockable” kunai.

Unfortunately, my camera’s max FPS is 30, so the video captures every other frame. Despite that, when we watch frame-by-frame, we can see that if Ibuki blocks left (normally), she gets hit 1-2 frames *later *than if she blocks right (cross-up). So I *suspect *this kunai is “unblockable” due to the behaviour of Ibuki’s hitbox: I think it’s slightly different depending on whether you’re holding block (left) or forward (right) on wake-up. If you’re holding block, the kunai hits 1-2 frames later, during which time the opponent crosses you up. But if you’re holding forward, the kunai hits 1-2 frames earlier, before the opponent has crossed you up.

On a related note, I have also thrown non-meaty kunais that hit standing opponents normally and crouching opponents cross-up. So if you’re caught in the vortex, rather than blocking left or right, you should probably block either standing normal or crouching cross-up, because if Ibuki’s kunai is not meaty, then there are situations where blocking standing cross-up will get you hit, but crouching cross-up will allow you to block it. In addition, you should *never *block crouching normal.

169

Hey guys, scrub Ibuki player here. Any tips for the vortex on Juri? I’m guessing she’s one of those characters with a weird hitbox, because I can’t seem to land the lp kunai on both the “safe” okizeme (the SJ one) and the neckbreaker->wait->lk command dash->low kunai by SeedyR0M. The timing is pretty weird, I bet. I can vortex shotos on the fly, but not her for some reason.

170

I’m pretty sure Juri’s the same as everyone else. I’ve had no problems vortexing her. Try it in training and see what you’re doing wrong. If you’re having trouble actually hitting the opponent with the kunai, adjust your timing when throwing it. That’s kinda the whole point. There’s a few ways to get in position to hit with the kunai, but it’s all about when and where it hits your opponent. Another good thing if you’re not sure if you’re doing the vortex properly is to look at the combo count. Do whatever combo you’re trying to do out of it without any sort of setup, and then do it again with the vortex.
If you post more about what’s going on we might be able to help you more.

171

In order of difficulty 1 being the most difficult to Vortex
1 Gief
2 T Hawk
3 Gouken
4 Seth
5 Blanka

other characters to note
Guy - Ex hurricane kick if he has meter
Rog - EX rush out but not a problem since he wastes meter and you dont get hurt
Juri - EX pinwheel is tough but very unsafe
Bison - Teleport and Psycho Crusher and Ultra 2 give me problems but not so much
Sim - Teleporting is about it but alot of sims dont know how to react under pressure you have a harder time getting to him IMO the easiest to Vortex out of the mentioned names.

172

If you use my vortex it is actually kind of safe vs. grapplers, although your timing has to be relatively perfect and you have to predict their counter move. If you do my vortex and the kunai gets blocked you can just NJ or raida and it will avoid the SPD or grabs. I haven’t test to see if it avoids the ultra however. The NJ can lead to alot of dmg if you use HP into anything though.

If they do reversal lariat or hawk dive, then you just block and punish.

I had a video vs. Zangief where I did this but I deleted it. Also you have to adjust your timing and distancing for them so thats important to know as well.

173

What’s the counter to the people who FADC out of the initial kunai?

174

Would Juri be able to counter a kunai vortex with her counter/teleport (QCB+P)?

175

out of curiosity. what keeps the opponent from doing lvl 1 focus or focus -> dash on wakeup against the kunai “vortex”? friend of mine managed to do a lvl 1 focus twice, that hit me before i could do a s.lp. and simply focus dashing into the direction where ibuki came from should get you out of it, as well.

176

To answer all the questions above: The greatness of the Kunai Vortex comes from the kunai being meaty. That is, it is inside the opponent as they are getting up. This means that so long as it was properly timed, they cannot do anything but block. Even FAs have a split second of start up before they can absorb

If Im wrong, someone correct me

177

Ya problem is that you have to be looking for your opponent to be escaping, but vs most the cast you can sweep them on semi reaction to the focus. Vs chun and characters with far backdashes you cant do anything so I would opt out of using the kunai vs them or realistically just sparingly.

178

i’m 99% positive that fa can be done on the first frame of wakeup… i use it sometimes to get myself out of safejump os sweep, when i use chun… the biggest problem is that if the opponents timing is really good, that there second attack like a crouching jab when landing, will break the focus cause of it being the second attack…

FA backdashing loses to that cause fa cant be canceled into backdash for 5 frames.

although i’m pretty sure that ibuki can os a neckbreaker on someones wakeup if ibuki were grounded versus them… chun can do it with her u1… but cause of need for charge, chuns isnt very practical.

chuns works off of chains… but ibuki doesnt really have rapidfire jabs or shorts for chains, so she would have to use her close standing lp and os into neckbreaker… which seems like more work than substance.

if ibuki times her crossup kunai perfectly it cant be focus backdashed… ibuks second attack upon landing will break the focus… and there is nothing that the opponent can do to stop it. but the problem with that is its REALLY hard to time and space the kunai that perfectly.

but i guess that is what practice is for.

-dime

179

no thats just not true, even if it where 5 frames from an fa to back dash she has recovery from kunai (and all chars have trip gaurd when attacking in the air which adds landing recovery) ibuki only has a close 4 frame move + the recovery from kunai. So if I do safe jump into c.lp, it wont beat focus at all, if anything it will air reset them mid backdash. You can backdash the frame you absorb something, well im not so sure about THE frame but it’s not important for this set up.

EDIT: so ya with a quick test, i did the tightest string i could, meaty air kunai into s.lp which assumes on block the kunai is at least +4. I was able to FA and back dash to safety everytime and the jab whiffs

180

strange… i just tested this on vanilla and super and i got the same reults as what you are saying… i could have sworn i tested it out on vanilla and couldnt fa dash out of a meaty safe jump to cr.lp… but i am now… and there has been no patch afaik on vanilla which would have taken it out…

so i will chalk it up to shitty timing on my end… i wish i would have known this all the times i got safe jumped against with chun… it would have saved me alot of damage.

thx for clearing that up magus, i was wrong.

-edit… this may make kunai crossup shitty since there is a way to always get out… we will have to vary which side ibuki lands on now in order for it to be effective…?

-dime